3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[radaglast]

Does anyone have any ideas about these 2 simple questions? 1- Where do you store your gasoline if you use your gen for home use only? I've noticed a smell of gas in the garage since that's where it is siored now, but it is unacceptable. 2- Has anyone have an opinion or input about the Contractor 4000 generator? It seems to be very reasonably priced and simple enough for a novice like me, but I'd like to hear from some of the more knowlegeable members. Any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance for your help...

[bob_b1]

I just bought the Power Pro 2200W generator from Pep Boys for $219. It is the exact same weight and dimensions as the Power Pro 3500W ($319). It fits in the storage bin of my Itasca Suncruiser. I had to trim the upper lip of the storage door to get it to fit (not noticable when the door is shut). I plugged my 30-amp cord into the 30amp-to-15amp adapter and then plugged it into the standard outlet. It powered everything, except that the voltage dropped to 100V when I went to turn on my A/C. I have a Coleman Mach III Power Saver model. 10-amps run and 14.5 amp start. The A/C did run but I knew that it would be damamged if I continued running it on low volts. I made an adapter to plug the 30-amp cord into the 4-prong twist-lock outlet.

Since the 4-prong outlet has two hot leads (and you can only use one of them), I read the electrical diagram to figure out which of the hot leads was not being shared with the standard outlet. I wanted to use the hot lead that was NOT shared with outlet so that I could use both the 4-prong and standard without sharing the same hot lead. This made a huge diffence. I was able to start the A/C without any substantial drop in voltage and the A/C seemed to respond much better to the change.

Edit: I wish that I tested the A/C for longer than 5 minutes. I would have found out that this generator can not run it for long. I just got back from a Penn State tailgate. The A/C will work for about 10~20 minutes before it trips the breaker on the generator. I'm going to return it for the 3500W unit.

[allstar59]

This might be a dumb question but here goes. I picked up a PowerPro 3500 today . It only has the one 120v outlet and one 240v outlet.I want to use the 240v outlet as an extra 120v outlet. I want to know which is the best thing to do, 1: make an adapter using only one hot leg of the NEMA L14-30 to a female 120v 20amp plug, 2: make another adapter using both hot legs to a box with a duplex outlet one hot leg per outlet, 3: rewire as others have done but this would be my last choice. Also is there any advantage using one option or the other. Also can I use the 120v outlet and the 240v(using as 120v) at the same time

Thanks

[mkopy]

Well I just purchased a PP3500 from PepBoys used it over the weekend on the 5th wheel w/no problem. But after reading the posts regarding putting the coils in parallel decided to do a test. With orignal wiring and using a Fluke multimeter with amp clamp and have a 2 gang pigtail I hooked up a 2hp compressor with a name plate rating of 13a, a skillsaw with a rating of 13a and another circular saw with a rating of 13a. The initial voltage reading with no load on 20a(brown leg) outlet was 124vac and 125vac on the twistlock(blue leg) and 244 between the two.

Now with all three loads attached to the 20a receptacle first I turned on the comp. running current meas. 10a. voltage meas. 117vac. Now adding in the skillsaw engine slowed momentarily but picked up after 1-2 secs amp reading 19a volt reading is 109 vac. Turning on last saw engine slowed and never did quite come back to original rpms amp reading was 27a voltage was 100vac. I did not let it run like this long, maybe 30-40 secs max. The breaker never tripped.

Now using the 30a twistlock (blue leg) performing the exact same sequence 1st the comp amps read 10a volts=123vac. Then adding the skillsaw amps=18a volts=119vac then finally the other saw again the rmps slowed but did eventually catch up to what sounded near the original and amps=27a and volts=113 and continued to run this for 3 min without any problems.

Now deciding to try out Wyatt-S's mod by putting both coils in parallel. I changed the connections at the gen terminal strip behind the end cap. By moving the Red wire coming from the gen coils to the Brown terminal. Then taking the Red going out to the panel and placing that on the Blue terminal. I then fired up the gen. Took a reading with the fluke at all receptacles and the were as follows all read 124vac. And the factory volt meter read approx the same.

Now following the same procedure as before the comp initail readings were amps=12 volts=120vac. But then as soon as I turned on the skillsaw the breaker immediately tripped. Very puzzling. I would have thought as most everyone else by placing coils in parallel that it would provide more available current. But after checking and double checking the connections in fact unterminating and reterminating with the same results.

Then restoring back to the original wiring performed the same test with the same results. Mostly to check to see if I did any damage.

At this point I'm not sure if there is any benefit to rewiring.
Any Ideas more than welcome. Maybe I missed something....

[jimpcon]

I want to thank "WyattS" for his very detailed but simple schematic and instructions for the mod to the PowerPro 3500. It took all of 5 minutes. The longest part was looking for an 8mm socket to take the cover off the genhead and wiring post 🙂

It works great!!!

Also, thanks to everyone else who has contributed to this topic. I REALLY appreciate it!!!

[Barton_Family]

jjleprikon wrote:
Anyone know about the Amico 3000/3300? I saw that question asked a few pages back, but no responses yet. I like that one because it seems to be smaller and is advertised to run longer, but then it is fewer watts too. The Wildfire 3000/3500 is another I am considering. Any other first hand experience or opinions about running a saw with any of these generators?

That was probably me that asked the question about the Amico. I am due to receive it tomorrow. It was a pain in the ol' posterior dealing with Amico International to begin with. I called them (really need to brush up on my Chinese ;)) and was told they had NO generators at all. Then I found a bunch of exactly the unit I was looking for on eBay. I noticed the sellers name was somewhat familiar and found out it was the same company selling as Amico Intl but selling on eBay. So I called back, talked to someone different and was told the same thing, that they had no generators to sell. I asked about those on eBay and was told harshly, "we have NO generators!". So, I bid and won the closest to the auction ending that evening. I also sent a message to eBay stating that I thought this seller had a fraudulent store in that he said he had no products but listed a dozen or so on his site. An hour later, all of this model and a few others were no longer listed on his site. It took him 5 days to send mine out and as I said, I should receive tomorrow (Tuesday 9/13). I have spoken via email with a few others who have received this unit and are very pleased with it. Two of them said it was even quieter than expected and one said he measured his at 63db instead of the advertised 65db. I really need it for a trip this weekend and hope it arrives without having been refurbished, damaged, missing parts, etc. as has happened to others on the forum. I will let you know what I find out as soon IF it arrives and is in good shape. If everything is okay with it, I plan on firing it up as soon as I get home from work and doing a side by side sound test against my Generac 4000XL.

Ric
Acworth, GA

[jjleprikon]

PatJ wrote:
jjleprikon, I am curious about the sticker on your generator that says it won't run a compressor or saw. That's the first I've heard about that. My Champion didn't have that sticker.

PatJ, the sticker was a white label attached to the top of the carton the generator was packaged in. Right in the middle where you would have to see it when you opened the crate. Thanks for the real life test (and with video too!). I guess the Champion will work for me. Anyone know about the Amico 3000/3300? I saw that question asked a few pages back, but no responses yet. I like that one because it seems to be smaller and is advertised to run longer, but then it is fewer watts too. The Wildfire 3000/3500 is another I am considering. Any other first hand experience or opinions about running a saw with any of these generators?

[LLeopold]

I've been following this thread for a couple of months, been saving up for a generator (Honda or Yamaha), but after reading the reviews on the PowerPro, I stopped by my local PepBoys on my way home from work Friday night to look at them. I was sold and bought the PowerPro 3500. Over the weekend, I added the DPDT switch that was noted on page 90 (thank you allpraisebob, the diagram and the later picture was perfect). Actually, very simple and done fairly quickly (I'm an avid DIY with home improvement experience, shades of Tim Allen). It ran a bit louder than a typical portable RV generator (rated at 65 dB, but seemed closer to 75 dB - gas-powered lawn mower, and that was by ear, not measuring), but with a properly constructed and vented transport/sound box, I figure I can reduce the dB to a very nice level and still come in well less than the Yamaha/Hondas.

Being that this is my first generator (I'm a boondocking nut, but on 12V, so this will put DW and I in absolute comfort), I was concerned with grounding. I did some research, both on the web and inquiring at my local electrical supply house, and found that, unless one can connect to an existing ground, one must drive an 8 foot copper or brass rod into the ground (can be at an angle or buried 2 feet deep or so horizontally)? I've seen campers with generators with what appears to be no ground hook up. I realize that one can run without a ground, but with some risk. I'm just wondering what most folks do when out, say in national forest or park (or BLM land), where there is no existing grounding place. Do they really drive an 8 foot rod into the ground?

On edit: Duh! :R I did everything but do a search on rv.net and when I finally did, I found this. I'd still like to know from others, though. -LL

[guy48065]

That's a 2-pole switch with each pole rated at 20 amps. Should be able to pass 40 amps total.

[n7bsn]

Krazyjohnny wrote:
allpraisebob,

I went to Home depot last night to pick up a DPDT switch to do the conversion on my PP3500 and all they had was a 20amp/120volt version. I don't want to end up welding this thing shut should I draw the full 29 amps through it. Any suggestions on if this thing would work or should I shop a little more?

Too much 29 amps through a 20 amp switch.... I would do it with a relay

[Krazyjohnny]

allpraisebob,

I went to Home depot last night to pick up a DPDT switch to do the conversion on my PP3500 and all they had was a 20amp/120volt version. I don't want to end up welding this thing shut should I draw the full 29 amps through it. Any suggestions on if this thing would work or should I shop a little more?

[PatJ]

jjleprikon, I am curious about the sticker on your generator that says it won't run a compressor or saw. That's the first I've heard about that. My Champion didn't have that sticker.

I just went out and fired up my Champion to see if it would run them. It will run my compressor and Skilsaw at the same time. Of course it slows for a second or two as each thing is turned on, but then it settles back into its normal hum.

My compressor is a Campbell Hausfeld "Extreme Duty" 20 gallon. The motor plate says wired for 120V (as it now is) it draws 15A with a LRA of 100A. The saw was a cheapo Skilsaw brand direct drive that claims to be 2.3 HP 12A. The compressor was plugged into the 20A side and the saw into the 15A side. If the Champion can do it, I would expect that any of the Chinese clones could do it just as well.

Actually what a perfect opportunity to play with my new camera!

Video Clip

The generator seems pretty loud here, and it is because it is inside my shop (while running my big exhaust fans.)

Hope this helps.

[LittleBill]

my elim 3000 will run a 13 amp conitinous 2hp compressor and a 1650 watt cermaic heater at the same time, without problem

[jjleprikon]

Greetings all,
First let me thank everyone for such a great source of info. I was doing some research on generators and found this thread and read it all once. I am interested primarily in a generator for emergency backup, using it for camping may be a secondary interest, but we do mostly tent camping right now. After reading this, I went to Kragen to buy a generator. They only have the Champion (4450 peak), I have also seen the Power Pro 3500 and ETQ 3500 at Pep Boys (not sure of the watts on this the model is TG3000). I want to run a home refrigerator, some lights, a TV, a pellet stove or a fan and some tools including a skill saw. No, not all at the same time. I hav added up the wattage and it seems the Champion at 4450 peak should do the job. When I went to buy it, I found a sticker on top that said it would not run a saw or compressor. My saw is a skil wormdrive 120 volts at 13 amps. Isn't that 1560 watts, double for surge would be 30,120 watts. Seems like the generator had a 120V/20amp outlet at 4450 peak watts. Why wouldn't the gen run that saw? Does anybody know if that generator will run a saw like that? I sent a question to the people at eliminator to ask if their elim3000 would run it. They said it would. Now I'm wondering if they're overstating the capabilities of that generator. Anybody know first hand if either of these generators will power a 7 1/4 skilsaw?

[Krazyjohnny]

Professor,

You nailed it on the head. I was looking for some way to use the twist lock plug for 120 volts also with the standard 120 volt plug. Enter the switchable wiring diagram here on page 90 (previous posts on page 116) I just got back from a weekend trip and will hopefully get started on the wiring mods to make this new genset more flexible.