Eco Boost Owners - Anyone using a Tow Tune?

I have tunes from both 5 Star and Southern Speed Inc. Both have way more power than stock which is great if you are towing 10k and over. Southern Speed tune shifts smooth, and has good power throughout the rpm range. My 5 star tune has slighty less power but gets .5 mpg better than the Southern Speed tune.
NEITHER tow tune gets as good of mileage as the stock tune. I lose from .5 to 1 mpg running the tow tunes.

I just added a Wagner intercooler for cooler intake air temps. On the dyno it showed 5 rwhp and 50rw ftlbs of torque

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Some good info, guys. Though following drivetrain seems tangent, it's part of successful power management.

Bryan, I'll take your actual measurements as strong evidence that synthetic lube pays off in reducing friction. Thanks.

Wes
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Wes Tausend wrote:

In this regard, I've heard there is very little frictional difference (syn is just slightly better) between modern straight petroleum oils and synthetic and I tend to believe that in spite of predictable product hype.
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I've done the comparison. I have a rear diff temp gauge, so it's pretty easy to compare. Filling with a high-end conventional raises my average diff temp by 30 degrees. It was enough of a difference I did not keep the conventional in there very long. I've maxed out my temp gauge on synthetic, so with conventional it would have maxed out much sooner. The gauge stops at 250F so that's when I stop (only had to once.... Towing out of death valley pulling 15,000 pounds). I know the oils are rated higher than that, but there's enough variation I don't want to guess, nor do I want to guess how much hotter than 250F my diff is, especially since that's the flowing oil temp (ring gear slings it onto the sender) which means my ring & pinion are much hotter.

I did not have the temp gauge when I had the 9.75" setup, so I cannot compare how changing to the 10.5" setup affected temps. (axle housing is the same. Ford stuffs the D60 gearset into the D70 housing, so upgrading diffs does not require upgrading the axle in some of the vans)

I have not personally taken the plunge, as I'm still under warranty. But if I do, it will be with 5star. You can like their facebook page and check out their EB shop trucks, and the stuff they pull with. It has been a common theme that they may not make the most power, but their shifting strategies are supposed to be awesome when pulling. They keep all factory safeguards in place, such as torque management.

It has also been said that mpg will increase 1-2mpg with pretty much any tune out there.

I don't particularly dislike my shifting strategies, but then again, I've never been in a tuned EB.

And the more 'modern' exotic additives are Molybdenum Disulfide and Tungsten Disulfide
that has much higher temp ranges and plating attributes than Zinc and Phosphorous

Can't be used on limited slip nor 'some' lockers that use clutches...to slippery

In theory, diff lubrication should never allow metal to metal in there...but in
the real world it does...too often

Non-synthetic's now have higher temp ranges, but synthetics still hold the edge
on temp range and shear (film strength at temp/PSI)

A very old discussion in my circle has been the track diff's (smallish) compared
to our light duty trucks and external cooling on the pro's setups

Is it because they stick with the smaller dia ring gear to keep the pumpkin
small (ground clearance) or are they keeping weight down? or both? or ???

Would they then need external cooling if they went to larger dia ring gear?

Germane here because so many take things out of context....see racers
using something and think it's the thing to do on public roads

carringb wrote:

Ford also stuck (still is actually) a 9.75" ring gear in the E350 vans with the diesel or the V10. It holds up just fine for anyone staying below 20,000 GCWR, and at stock to moderately boosted HP. I'm not aware of any special treatments they do to the material. I suspect the full-synthetic gear oil specified is the main reason they can rate a small rear end so high.

Bryan,

I think you are right.

I suppose that is what it must be, synthetics. I know that raising the pinion height reduces tooth contact (and strength), thus friction, and that is why Ford went from the tough old 9" to the GM-like 8.8". And chain drive front wheel drive is more efficient than spur gear drives which are more efficient than hypoid gears. But, in rear wheel drive, I can't imagine what else would reduce hypoid gear friction unless the synthetics help a great deal.

In this regard, I've heard there is very little frictional difference (syn is just slightly better) between modern straight petroleum oils and synthetic and I tend to believe that in spite of predictable product hype. But I understand there is a significant improvement in synthetic heat tolerance between the oils, which is why synthetics were originally developed for jet turbines. I suppose that Ford (and others) may now be getting away with smaller, more efficient gears with no fear of lubrication heat break-down and subsequent gear failure.

Lending credence to this perspective would be Fords original(?) use of synthetics in the 10.5"-gear Excursion, and then later(?), the F-250's. I think I saw an early review saying that Ford expected the special Ex synthetic to be a lifetime axle lube; i.e. a car-like extended service benefit. Also, GM quit adding oil coolers to the Corvette, but spec'd Mobil 1 synthetic, or the equivalent as a suitable replacement. OEM's don't do anything they don't have to do.

I know, that in the '60's, some NASCAR cars ran a yoke-driven power steering pump to cool the differential lube, which was, and I believe still is, the sturdy Ford 9". Besides the flex resistant extra 3rd pinion bearing, the low-mounted-pinion 9" engages more teeth for strength. At todays speeds I wondered if NASCAR ran synthetic, perhaps instead of cooling, so I tried to google it. I didn't have a lot of luck pinning NASCAR to synthetics, but I did find out why gear oil stinks. See the short article under the Boundary Lubrication paragraph.

Thanks,
Wes
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tragusa3 wrote:

skipnchar wrote:
Can't imagine why I'd want to use other than the chip Ford put in there. Climbs 7% grades in fourth gear at posted speed limits and at 1800 RPM stock. This with 10,000 lb. against it's 11,300 lb. rating.

I've only towed once with mine so far, but pulling a 6% grade at 62mph in 4th, I was at 2800rpm towing 4,000lbs. I wonder why...we both have 3.73's.

There was plenty on tap though...I could have jumped in the passing lane!

Towing 4,000# I WAS in the passing lane! I fact I was pulling daughters 5,000# GN horse trailer home Empty from northern Washington state.

Sorry, Sorry, the devil made me do it!!! :B

Wes Tausend wrote:
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I wonder how the new low-friction rear ends are doing in these powerhouses? The EB exceeds the HP/torque of the early 2 valve V-10's, and often F-250 towing capacity as well. But the old V-10's were ahead of a fuel-thirsty 10.5 inch Sterling gearset used in most 350's and even some 450's, I believe.

What is under the F-150 with 11k plus tow capacity? I thought they were just a 9.5 inch (EDIT: 9.75 inch) rear axle or thereabouts. Some new metallurgy at work here?

Wes
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Ford also stuck (still is actually) a 9.75" ring gear in the E350 vans with the diesel or the V10. It holds up just fine for anyone staying below 20,000 GCWR, and at stock to moderately boosted HP. I'm not aware of any special treatments they do to the material. I suspect the full-synthetic gear oil specified is the main reason they can rate a small rear end so high.

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I wonder how the new low-friction rear ends are doing in these powerhouses? The EB exceeds the HP/torque of the early 2 valve V-10's, and often F-250 towing capacity as well. But the old V-10's were ahead of a fuel-thirsty 10.5 inch Sterling gearset used in most 350's and even some 450's, I believe.

What is under the F-150 with 11k plus tow capacity? I thought they were just a 9.5 inch (EDIT: 9.75 inch) rear axle or thereabouts. Some new metallurgy at work here?

Wes
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He probably meant 6th gear @ 1800 RPM @ highway speed on the flats, which it will easily do.

It is a beast stock but 450HP and 500+ ft-lb on premium is appealing. I'd be hesitant to do it for the driveline alone. With the 1st gear reduction, 550 ft-lb and 2x torque converter multiplication at low speed, the u-joints and rear end can really take a beating with good traction.