Forum Discussion
brulaz wrote:
otrfun wrote:
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If--and yes, it's a big if, if the NTC's 5.0 diesel can come in with an EPA highway MPG estimate in the low-mid 20's, it'll finally give consumers a clear choice (and awareness) about power and MPG.
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I wouldn't be surprised though if the Titan XD came in a bit over 8500# GVWR, making it exempt from posting the EPA mileage ratings.
With all that HD equipment in it, (900# of diesel and emissions control, Aisin tranny, 10.5" rear end, reinforced NV2500 frame), it's going to be a fairly heavy truck.
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Or look at the 2013 F150 HD Payload 4x4 Crew cab with a min base weight of 5860#.
How much heavier would the Titan XD be? With all that HD stuff, I would guess at least 740# or a base weight of 6600#. Add 2000# payload and you're again over 8500#.otrfun wrote:
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If--and yes, it's a big if, if the NTC's 5.0 diesel can come in with an EPA highway MPG estimate in the low-mid 20's, it'll finally give consumers a clear choice (and awareness) about power and MPG.
...
I wouldn't be surprised though if the Titan XD came in a bit over 8500# GVWR, making it exempt from posting the EPA mileage ratings.
With all that HD equipment in it, (900# of diesel and emissions control, Aisin tranny, 10.5" rear end, reinforced NV2500 frame), it's going to be a fairly heavy truck.
In 2014, a RAM SLT Crew 4x4 2500 with the Cummins was at least 7770# base weight, but with GVWR of 10K, it's max payload was 2230#.
Maybe the Titan XD can take 1200# off that RAM 2500 base weight? So 6570# + 2000# payload and your GVWR is 8570# and no EPA required. Can they take more off? Do they even want to? Guess we'll soon see.
I'd really like to see the HD truck manufacturers voluntarily report the EPA numbers anyway, not because the EPA protocol is so perfect (it's not) but because it's the best we currently have for comparison purposes.- I hope Nissan puts a decent size fuel tank on the new Titan (or offers one as an option). I would gladly pay extra for a factory installed 45 gallon fuel tank.
NC Hauler wrote:
No complaints with the Aisin thus far, with 29,000 miles on the truck, guess I'll be able to report back any supposed "nightmares" on servicing the Aisin tranny in the very near future....Have several that have reported back on the cummins forum that have serviced their Aisins at the 30,000 mile mark and don't recollect anyone having a heart attack from some astronomical expense to have it done...
Just a drain (using the drain plug) and fill at 30K miles. Shouldn't be too bad at all. I'm expecting to hit that around December or so.Bedlam wrote:
Good point.
I think many are disappointed that this smaller sized diesel is not available in 3/4t truck. That would really give someone to think about if they were looking at a 1t gasser.
When the mini trucks of the '80s all offered diesels, I loved the competition between them and yearn for return of the mini diesels (other than just passenger cars). I hope these mid sized ones are successful and we see swath of diesel offerings from the smallest to largest take hold. As others have posted, this innovation is good for all for us even if we don't buy this particular model.
Once these manufacturers have the emission controls dialed in, I would love to see the big Ford and GM V8 diesels being chopped up into a V6 and I4 versions with common parts to feed the smaller markets. Frankly, I'm still surprised Cummins didn't take the 6.7 I6 and just lop off cylinders to make smaller engines.
There is a gasoline engine manufacturer called Chery that does just this type of scaling already, so it is not new or unique. They have 2-cylinder 541cc, 3-cylinder 812cc and 4-cylinder 1083cc line that use the same basic DOHC EFI engine and just add or take away cylinders to offer different displacements. Transmissions, pumps, injectors and alternators naturally all cross over, but so do things like timing chains, bearings and seals. All this redundancy reduces supply and manufacturing costs after they already saved on engineering.
IMO, the Nissan Titan Cummins (NTC) may change some of this.
Right now the Big 3 have no incentive to compete in terms of power vs. MPG with their 3/4 - 1-ton diesel trucks. IMO, the Big 3 are only offering near 1000 lb. diesel torque monsters because there are no official EPA MPG numbers to temper the increases in power. It takes more fuel to make more power. Unfortunately, this data (and the impact) is hidden from the average consumer.
If--and yes, it's a big if, if the NTC's 5.0 diesel can come in with an EPA highway MPG estimate in the low-mid 20's, it'll finally give consumers a clear choice (and awareness) about power and MPG.
The Ecodiesel's success has clearly shown there is consumer demand for a diesel pickup truck that places an emphasis on MPG rather than power. There's obviously a demand for high torque, big-bore diesels pickups that place an emphasis on power rather than MPG.
The question is, is there demand for a diesel that offers a reasonable compromise somewhere in the middle. I believe the NTC will finally answer this question.- Sure would like to see those axle ratings... I think Ford and GM already push their half ton GAWR right to the edge.
- I can not wait for this truck to finally hit the street so we can see the final numbers. This truck appeals greatly, as the next TT i want only comes in at about 9500 Wet fully loaded ready to roll. This puts me squarely on the upper end of the Half's and the lower end of the 3/4 - 1 and my truck is my DD on a 19 mile commute each way. if it gets anywhere around the mid 20's in becomes 1 depending on price on an already very short list of trucks.
- I think many are disappointed that this smaller sized diesel is not available in 3/4t truck. That would really give someone to think about if they were looking at a 1t gasser.
When the mini trucks of the '80s all offered diesels, I loved the competition between them and yearn for return of the mini diesels (other than just passenger cars). I hope these mid sized ones are successful and we see swath of diesel offerings from the smallest to largest take hold. As others have posted, this innovation is good for all for us even if we don't buy this particular model.
Once these manufacturers have the emission controls dialed in, I would love to see the big Ford and GM V8 diesels being chopped up into a V6 and I4 versions with common parts to feed the smaller markets. Frankly, I'm still surprised Cummins didn't take the 6.7 I6 and just lop off cylinders to make smaller engines.
There is a gasoline engine manufacturer called Chery that does just this type of scaling already, so it is not new or unique. They have 2-cylinder 541cc, 3-cylinder 812cc and 4-cylinder 1083cc line that use the same basic DOHC EFI engine and just add or take away cylinders to offer different displacements. Transmissions, pumps, injectors and alternators naturally all cross over, but so do things like timing chains, bearings and seals. All this redundancy reduces supply and manufacturing costs after they already saved on engineering. - ^^ All that and if it gets an honest 22-23mpg on the hwy then why not get it instead of a 3/4 ton. Only upside to a 3/4 ton is that the RAWR can be manipulated since it's basically a de-rated 3500. My situation would be the perfect example of why that truck would work. I tow a lighter/shorter 5th wheel with a 2500 CTD. My payload is 2176lbs. Right around where the Titan could be. However my mpg empty is only 17+ hwy. If for the same money I could get the same payload but bump my mpg up to 22+ then it's a no brainer. Biggest issue is that the Titan doesn't have an upside for RAWR. But neither do 1/2 tons and they sell very well. I doubt most buying the Titan are buying it as a tow vehicle like 3/4-1 ton buyers do. More of a do all but do better than 1/2 tons.
- Gotta chuckle at human nature. We always want more, or less.
If it's a 1/2-ton, we wanna 3/4 ton. If it has too much transmission we want less--lol!
Honestly, if the best we can do is criticize the Nissan Titan Cummins (NTC) because it has too much transmission, well, I'm sure Nissan will take that as the highest compliment.
For those that are critical of the NTC's 2000 lbs. of payload, it is interesting to note a Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins CrewCab only has approx. 2200 lbs. of payload. A payload of 2,000 lbs. puts the NTC right in the middle of the 1/2 and 3/4-ton market segment--exactly where Nissan wanted it--no more, no less.
As for the NTC's pricing, some believe it's gotta cost less than a 3/4 ton because it has less power and payload, right? Again, not going to happen. It doesn't take much research to show it's gonna come in around $45k-$55k. That's the sweet spot for everything that sells well in the light truck segment. $45k-$55k represents the pricing on the best selling 1/2-ton trucks, plus, $50k-$55k will easily get you into a new 3/4 or 1-ton gas or diesel truck.
All-in-all, there's nothing quite like this truck in the market--it fills a nice void. Nissan's Fred Diaz knew just where to position the NTC so it would have the least amount of market resistance.
Competition bodes well for all of us. Bring it on!
