Towing 10k+ with a 'Burb.......Duraburb or ??

[Jettix2]

Hey guys;

My wife and I recently bought a Sierra 321BHT. 900# TW and 9400# dry.

I have a ProPride 3P sitting in the garage, waiting to be installed.

Currently towing with a 2011 F250 Crew Cab, 6.2L 4WD with 3.73 axle. I'm not super impressed with how the current truck tows the trailer (previous thread on that), and my wife and I have been bouncing ideas around of other possible tow vehicles.......considered buying a new diesel P/U, etc. Well, we just found out we're pregnant with Baby #3, so this changes everything.

My new towing setup is going to be Wife, Me, with 3 kids across in the rear seat.....6 year old in a booster, 2 year old in a forward facing carseat, and infant in a rear-facing. And the small dog. I think we're gonna go insane towing with this setup:(

We'd looked up Suburban 2500s (extra interior space makes everyone happy!) and saw that they only were rated for 9600#, so we crossed 'em off the list. (later found out that this was due to the lousy factory bumper-integrated hitch) But, I stumbled upon the DURABURB on Google and see that they do Duramax conversions to Suburbans. I spoke with them yesterday, and they said that with a Curt XHD 15324 hitch bolted to the rear frame as part of their Duramax swap, a 2500HD Suburban could safely tow 17,000 lbs. PERFECT!! With this setup, it also appears as though I would be under-axle limit weight-wise according to the door placard in case the DOT ever stopped me. (from what I can tell, 4180ft and 5500rr).

I figure I'm probably 12,000# loaded with kids, gear, food, and such, so this would be well within the vehicle's limits as built by them.

I'm assuming (without asking) that even with the new hitch, the 6.0 motor would be a complete dog with this much weight behind it, and that the Duramax conversion is really the only proper way to tow this much weight, right? If I'm unhappy with my current 6.2L F250 towing, I'm not going to like the 6.0L, I'm guessing....?

Any other thoughts on the Duraburb, please post em up. For about $40k, I can get a well-sorted & gone through, 75,000-ish mile (both drivetrain and body) Duramax equipped Suburban 2500 4WD. This sounds pretty tempting. ~~~ 18k for the 'burb, 14 for the Duramax, and 8ish for the install.

FWIW I considered an Excursion diesel, but it's a huge step back to the past compared with what I'm currently driving, and I don't think I'll be happy with it.

Thanks, Ben

[CKNSLS]

Jettix2 wrote:
Just an update for everyone, I bought a new truck and am taking delivery on Saturday.

New 2013 Ram 3500 MegaCab Laramie 4WD. It is a Dually with the Cummins 6.7 and 68rfe trans, 3.42 axle. Black on Black, leather, U-Connect with Navigation, Cold Weather, Plow Prep, Skid Plates, Power Pedals/Keyless Go, Backup Assist w/ camera, Class V hitch, factory Alcoa wheels, remote start, Alpine stereo, etc etc. Has every option except 5th wheel prep (don't need) and the Aisin transmission, which has been on national backorder for quite some time and is impossible to find. Of the nearly 20 trucks we tried to dealer-trade from Michigan to Florida and as far west as Colorado, this is the ONLY truck we could even get, and it happens to be almost exactly what I want. The only thing I'd have changed if I could would have been to pick a 3.73 instead of 3.42 axle, but there aren't any out there..... Being a leftover 13, I'm getting it for almost $13k under MSRP, between Chrysler Friends & Family pricing and almost $6,000 in rebates. Trade in on my current truck was AWESOME, absolute top-dollar, and they didn't care if I put the factory 18"s back on and sold the factory 20s, hard tonneau, and BedRug.......WOOT WOOT!! Dealer traded from about 550 miles away at no charge, arrived last night, I'm picking it up Saturday.

SUPER excited to get it, we took one on an overnight test-drive last weekend (it was a 2014 without the rebates), buckled 3 carseats in w/o any probs, and it drives great, kids love the space, wife is happy. I've never been a Dodge/Ram fan, but I am super impressed with the new Ram.

Payload is 4650# and towing capacity with my configuration is just above 17,000#........ This should tow my trailer pretty well, the 3.42 and 68rfe is a respected combo for towing on the Cummins forum, and empty it should get 20-22 on the hwy if I'm careful (versus 18 with the 3.73 and 16 with the 4.10). Being that I only tow a few times a year, this is probably the best choice anyway;)

Thought I'd update everyone, I'll post up a new thread with pics when I get it!

Cheers, Ben

You got a great truck to be able to tow your trailer and keep your family safe!
CONGRATULATIONS!

[Jettix2]

Just an update for everyone, I bought a new truck and am taking delivery on Saturday.

New 2013 Ram 3500 MegaCab Laramie 4WD. It is a Dually with the Cummins 6.7 and 68rfe trans, 3.42 axle. Black on Black, leather, U-Connect with Navigation, Cold Weather, Plow Prep, Skid Plates, Power Pedals/Keyless Go, Backup Assist w/ camera, Class V hitch, factory Alcoa wheels, remote start, Alpine stereo, etc etc. Has every option except 5th wheel prep (don't need) and the Aisin transmission, which has been on national backorder for quite some time and is impossible to find. Of the nearly 20 trucks we tried to dealer-trade from Michigan to Florida and as far west as Colorado, this is the ONLY truck we could even get, and it happens to be almost exactly what I want. The only thing I'd have changed if I could would have been to pick a 3.73 instead of 3.42 axle, but there aren't any out there..... Being a leftover 13, I'm getting it for almost $13k under MSRP, between Chrysler Friends & Family pricing and almost $6,000 in rebates. Trade in on my current truck was AWESOME, absolute top-dollar, and they didn't care if I put the factory 18"s back on and sold the factory 20s, hard tonneau, and BedRug.......WOOT WOOT!! Dealer traded from about 550 miles away at no charge, arrived last night, I'm picking it up Saturday.

SUPER excited to get it, we took one on an overnight test-drive last weekend (it was a 2014 without the rebates), buckled 3 carseats in w/o any probs, and it drives great, kids love the space, wife is happy. I've never been a Dodge/Ram fan, but I am super impressed with the new Ram.

Payload is 4650# and towing capacity with my configuration is just above 17,000#........ This should tow my trailer pretty well, the 3.42 and 68rfe is a respected combo for towing on the Cummins forum, and empty it should get 20-22 on the hwy if I'm careful (versus 18 with the 3.73 and 16 with the 4.10). Being that I only tow a few times a year, this is probably the best choice anyway;)

Thought I'd update everyone, I'll post up a new thread with pics when I get it!

Cheers, Ben

[Wishin]

If you don't want to be in a hurry to buy a new truck, you can buy a locking clip for the center seat. Any infant car seat I've ever bought has come with one free. Here is a link for one on e-bay so you can see what I mean.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOCKING-CLIP-for-Baby-Infant-Convertible-Booster-CAR-SEAT-H-Clip-/380466235790

As for the car seats being tight together, that is actually probably safer as they will help stabilize each other. I've read of a study that determined that 3 kids across were safer than 2 as they keep movement to a minimum as everyone is close together. This is not talking about kids in car seats, but just in belts. Surprised me as you would think they would be hitting each other at times. Apparently the positives outweigh the possible negatives. If I recall correctly this was based on accident statistics, not tests.

MegaCabs do seem like nice trucks, lots of leg room and storage behind the rear seat. Make sure it has enough payload as that huge cab weighs a LOT. I would think a 3500 would be adequate but you should double check. Good luck.

[Lantley]

I can't fault your decision to go with the Mega Cab for payload reasons, however a Mega cab is not an SUV.
The Excursion is up to the task, I can say that because I used to tow a 11K GVW TT with a PSD Excursion. I understand you may not have that much faith in the X, but I know it can handle the load simply because I have done it, experience not conjecture
I went from the Excursion to my current crew cab and we still occasionally miss the passenger space.
The X had room for all the passengers we cared to bring. In the crew cab we are passenger locked. There is no room for any additional passengers guest/friends/ family are no longer able to go unless we take another car.
Not a deal breaker but having excess passenger space has it advantages.
Good luck with your decision, I am also not a Dodge guy. But the new Dodges are turning my head as well.

[Vanished]

I had three car seats across a Ram before - they do fit... but Barely... I agree with the 'test' fit... good luck! 🙂

[Jarlaxle]

Jettix2 wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:

azwildcat99 wrote:
I agree. Keep your current truck. We did 3 across in car seats in a Honda Pilot and it worked fine. Kids don't care. Even now they are 11,10 & 5 and do fine in our crew cab. Looked into Burbs too but ran into similar hitch and payload limitations. Now we're looking at a camper shell. That's where we would put a dog if we ever got one.

Important point: will a CC Super Duty accommodate three car seats LEGALLY and SAFELY in the rear? Many vehicles will NOT.

This brings up a very important discovery that I made last night.

1) The 2011 Super Duty Crew Cabs do not have LATCH tethers on the rear seat.....(they have top anchors on the rear wall, but no tethers in the seats, meaning the car seats need to be buckled in with a regular belt). This always seemed (super) ass-backward for 2011, but I was able to get my 2 outboard car-seats buckled in nice and securely using the truck belts that will "rachet" if you pull them out all the way.

2) I test-fit (rather, attempted to) an extra carseat that we had on-hand that measures about the same width as the infant seat we're about to buy. It won't fit 3-across. Well, actually, it WILL, but the car-seats are damn tight.....as in, I have to push and pull the outboards away from center in order to squeeze the center seat in.....(so tight that the bolster fabric pulls loose and I have to pull it back on the seat). Whether I can actually get it BUCKLED in there, who knows. I don't like the fact that all 3 seats are physically compressed into each other (seems like much less safety in a side impact this way).

3) So I went to use the factory belt to see if I could buckle the center seat in, and Lo-and-Behold, it doesn't have the built in ratcheting mechanism in it. WTF! So not only do we not have LATCH points, but Ford doesn't fit the center rear seat (theoretically the safest spot for a single kid) with a ratcheting seatbelt.

.....with this knowledge, I decided that:

Duraburb is out. I'm going to be several hundred lbs over GVWR by the time I am loaded with family and tongue weight, once the Duramax is installed.

Seriously considering a new MegaCab Ram 3500 Cummins. Drove one today, very nice truck (and I'm not a Dodge fan) and has 3 LATCH points across the rear seat AND an extra 2-3 inches of width at the narrowest point (armrest).

Thanks again to all for your help!

Seriously: at least look into a diesel Excursion!

[TOOBOLD]

I would take all three car seats with you when you test drive. Make sure they all fit like you want them to before you make that huge investment.

[CKNSLS]

Jettix2 wrote:
http://www.rvguidebook.com/rvguidebook/manufacturerfiles/2007sierra.pdf

is the link to the brochure for 2007. Makes no mention of it being a destination trailer. No kidding it's heavy, so are lots of 5-ers and Toy Haulers that people haul from up north to the sunny south and back every winter.

FWIW I had to save the file to open it and view.

He doesn't have a vehicle to safely tow it.......let alone to safely tow with three kids.

[Jettix2]

Jarlaxle wrote:

azwildcat99 wrote:
I agree. Keep your current truck. We did 3 across in car seats in a Honda Pilot and it worked fine. Kids don't care. Even now they are 11,10 & 5 and do fine in our crew cab. Looked into Burbs too but ran into similar hitch and payload limitations. Now we're looking at a camper shell. That's where we would put a dog if we ever got one.

Important point: will a CC Super Duty accommodate three car seats LEGALLY and SAFELY in the rear? Many vehicles will NOT.

This brings up a very important discovery that I made last night.

1) The 2011 Super Duty Crew Cabs do not have LATCH tethers on the rear seat.....(they have top anchors on the rear wall, but no tethers in the seats, meaning the car seats need to be buckled in with a regular belt). This always seemed (super) ass-backward for 2011, but I was able to get my 2 outboard car-seats buckled in nice and securely using the truck belts that will "rachet" if you pull them out all the way.

2) I test-fit (rather, attempted to) an extra carseat that we had on-hand that measures about the same width as the infant seat we're about to buy. It won't fit 3-across. Well, actually, it WILL, but the car-seats are damn tight.....as in, I have to push and pull the outboards away from center in order to squeeze the center seat in.....(so tight that the bolster fabric pulls loose and I have to pull it back on the seat). Whether I can actually get it BUCKLED in there, who knows. I don't like the fact that all 3 seats are physically compressed into each other (seems like much less safety in a side impact this way).

3) So I went to use the factory belt to see if I could buckle the center seat in, and Lo-and-Behold, it doesn't have the built in ratcheting mechanism in it. WTF! So not only do we not have LATCH points, but Ford doesn't fit the center rear seat (theoretically the safest spot for a single kid) with a ratcheting seatbelt.

.....with this knowledge, I decided that:

Duraburb is out. I'm going to be several hundred lbs over GVWR by the time I am loaded with family and tongue weight, once the Duramax is installed.

Seriously considering a new MegaCab Ram 3500 Cummins. Drove one today, very nice truck (and I'm not a Dodge fan) and has 3 LATCH points across the rear seat AND an extra 2-3 inches of width at the narrowest point (armrest).

Thanks again to all for your help!

[Jettix2]

http://www.rvguidebook.com/rvguidebook/manufacturerfiles/2007sierra.pdf

is the link to the brochure for 2007. Makes no mention of it being a destination trailer. No kidding it's heavy, so are lots of 5-ers and Toy Haulers that people haul from up north to the sunny south and back every winter.

FWIW I had to save the file to open it and view.

[CKNSLS]

Lantley wrote:
Brochure Showing 321 BHT Brochure is for Sandpiper, however they are brother and sister similar to Rock wood and Flagstaff.
AS you can see in Brochure these are travel trailers with tanks and propane. 12volt and 110 A?C electric. Absorption fridge etc.
Yes they are big and heavy, but they are made to be regularly towed

Scroll to page 13 and 14 of PDF Brochure

The point being is they ARE HEAVY.

[Lantley]

Brochure Showing 321 BHT Brochure is for Sandpiper, however they are brother and sister similar to Rock wood and Flagstaff.
AS you can see in Brochure these are travel trailers with tanks and propane. 12volt and 110 A?C electric. Absorption fridge etc.
Yes they are big and heavy, but they are made to be regularly towed

Scroll to page 13 and 14 of PDF Brochure

[Jettix2]

I do have the e-Brochure, I will see if I can find the link where I downloaded it.

Lantley wrote:

CKNSLS wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Jettix2 I agree with you totally. It is not a destination trailer,

Well then argue with Forest River Sierra Destination Trailers. In any event I still think this trailer is too long for normal use and frequent towing. Yes you can find heavier and longer trailers, but bumper pull ones are basically "out side" the norm and IMO take higher end TV such as 1T duallies, etc.

Larry

Larry is again correct. It is a destination trailer. This trailer is too big to be hauling around....especially with young children in the truck.

The link given does not list the model the OP purchased. The model the OP has is not shown.
To the OP What year is the trailer you purchased? It does not appear to be a current model. I am fairly familiar with the model you have. I walked through one a the an RV show once upon a time..

[Lantley]

CKNSLS wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Jettix2 I agree with you totally. It is not a destination trailer,

Well then argue with Forest River Sierra Destination Trailers. In any event I still think this trailer is too long for normal use and frequent towing. Yes you can find heavier and longer trailers, but bumper pull ones are basically "out side" the norm and IMO take higher end TV such as 1T duallies, etc.

Larry

Larry is again correct. It is a destination trailer. This trailer is too big to be hauling around....especially with young children in the truck.

The link given does not list the model the OP purchased. The model the OP has is not shown.
To the OP What year is the trailer you purchased? It does not appear to be a current model. I am fairly familiar with the model you have. I walked through one a the an RV show once upon a time..