New E450 with tow/haul question

Pardon me guys .... I should have stated that my 5R110 has 6 gear "ratios". I assume that Ford designed an actual set of 6 mechanical gears into the 5R110 in order to get 6 gear ratios.

Take a look at this link and let me know if I'm wrong about the 5R110 having 6 gear ratios/6 gears. Note that the 5R110 will never shift through 6 gear ratios in any given situation. It will shift using the 1-2-3-5-6 ratios in moderate/high temperatures and will shift using the 1-2-3-4-6 ratios in low temperatures. Only the the ECU has access to all 6 gear ratios depending upon temperature .... the driver/Scanguage only feels/records 5 gear ratio changes at any given outside temperature:

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/general-6-0l-discussion/249526-5r110-6-speed.html

Phil doesn't have a 6th gear.

The 5R110 has two different 4th gear ratios available, but only one is used in any given ambient temperature. It uses an underdrive 4th when it is extremely cold out. There is never an occasion when it shifts through 6 gear ratios. So it's a 5 speed, not a 6 speed.

http://powerstroke.wikia.com/wiki/5R110

DAS26miles wrote:
you guys are really confusing me. So I definately should use the T/h for the long down grade into Death Valley tapping the brake as needed. What about the climb up to Towne Pass, it's brutal! Have I missed something? My Winnebago E-350 tranny temp reached 215 at the top. I would expect the new MH to be higher.

Phil, what makes you think you have a 6th gear, I don't on my 2012? I'm not sure your original trans even had a 5th. Perhaps your replacement is a model or two newer than your original 2005? Regardless the Torque Shift, when operating properly, does not skip a gear and drop down 2 or more. It will go from 5th to 4th, 4th to third etc..

A lot of confusing "facts" (???) on this thread but bottom line ANYTIME you are under a significant load, up or down you should have the Tow Haul engaged. Having recently driven Death Valley rest assured it qualifies as a"significant load". :S

you guys are really confusing me. So I definately should use the T/h for the long down grade into Death Valley tapping the brake as needed. What about the climb up to Towne Pass, it's brutal! Have I missed something? My Winnebago E-350 tranny temp reached 215 at the top. I would expect the new MH to be higher.

At normal (non-cold) air temperatures, I find that the Tow/Haul Mode's downshift from 5th (after being out of overdrive 6th) to 3rd when going down grades is too agressive - the engine spikes to 4000-on-up RPM when dropping down to 3rd and we get thrown forward in our seats (... and the DW has a bad back).

I would much prefer the older 5-speed Torqshifts to have all 6 gears available for Tow/Haul Mode's automatic downshifting on down-grades. 6th to 5th to 4th (regardless of the close 5th/4th ratios) to 3rd to 2nd would be much better for automatic use on varied downhill runs. Every little bit would help. We experienced nearly all up/down grade percentages on our recent long trip ... and having "the right transmission ratio" available at all times behind the spirited V10 would have been the Cat's Meow.

FWIW .... my BIL's new RAM 1500 pickup sports an 8-speed automatic transmission. The V10 would love this many ratios behind it.

pnichols wrote:
As I understand it, the 5-speed TorqShift transmission shifts are - as controlled automaticaly - 1-2-3-5-6 in non-cold air temperatures ... and are 1-2-3-4-6 in low air temperatures.

I really don't understand the "engineering reasons" behind this duel gears ratios approach. It probably has something to do with keeping exhaust nasties below certain levels in various weather conditions. I wish all six ratios were always used - just like in the later year Ford E350/E450 transmissions.

The current six-speed transmissions use an entirely different transmission design from the older five-speed ones.

On the five speed transmission, while technically having six speeds, the two different fourth gears (4 and 5 in your list) are very close in overall ratio (1.10 and 1.00); it would be pointless to shift between them. You would go from, say, 3300 rpm to 3000 rpm on an upshift, or vice-versa on a downshift.

I think the alternate ratio is chosen when cold to improve oil circulation in the transmission or to warm the transmission fluid up more quickly or something along those lines; it has little specifically to do with engine emissions so far as I know. I also may well be mistaken in my understanding.

Phil, the Scan Gauge has nothing to do with the 5 speed Torque shift transmission it merely reads the trans fluid temps from the sensor feeding the ECM. I have no idea what you and TPI are talking about with the missing 4th gear? :h

My 5 speed Torque shift trans (2012 E-350), is just that, 5 gears and it shifts smoothly, never abruptly, both up and down. First is 3.11 and 5th (OD), is 0.71. From the Ford website:

"The 5-speed, automatic TorqShift® transmission features a fuel
conserving, fifth-gear, overdrive ratio. Ford Tow/Haul Mode is included The Message Center is equipped with an engine hour meter and helps reduce gear hunting, improves power delivery and uses engine braking to help control vehicle speed when descending hills."

Having the torque converter locked up reduces trans fluid temps and any time you are running anything but empty the Tow Haul will facilitate keeping the temps lower than having it off. (as noted before this info is in the owners manual).

I don't run in TH on the flats and slight downgrades (unless fighting a severe headwind), but on any other terrain, and keeping in mind we tend to run close to our GVWR, the TH will be engaged.

As always.... Opinions and YMMV

:C

As I understand it, the 5-speed TorqShift transmission shifts are - as controlled automaticaly - 1-2-3-5-6 in non-cold air temperatures ... and are 1-2-3-4-6 in low air temperatures.

I really don't understand the "engineering reasons" behind this duel gears ratios approach. It probably has something to do with keeping exhaust nasties below certain levels in various weather conditions. I wish all six ratios were always used - just like in the later year Ford E350/E450 transmissions.

If you get your scangauge watch for the elusive 4th gear. Normally these transmissions shift 1-2-3-5-6. Once in a while in a downshift from 6th gear they will drop to 4th gear-this is the only way they'll go into 4th. Just a small window of speed and load will get 4th gear.

Like you I'd prefer a full on 6 speed automatic, but for mellow driving this one seems to be fine. It sure feels and sounds heavy duty.

tpi wrote:
I have relatively light 25' class C and use tow haul primarily as braking aid on mountainous downhills. Otherwise I find the shifting excessive (sometimes on brief brake applications) and forces needless high RPM. I can see in some scenarios where there is potential to keep transmission cooler by using more mechanical gearing and less torque converter. OTOH I have never heard of any excessive (IMO) transmission temps when not operated in tow/haul-and of course the PCM has the data and can shift transmission according to temperature if they're excessive.

Bottom line: for me engine braking only when needed. I have no concerns about transmission life when serviced properly. Also E450 has more favorable axle ratio for reduced transmission heating than the E350-lower overall gearing.

Very well stated! We just completed a 10,000+ mile RV trip and I pretty much agree with what was said above. We covered just about every type of road terrain out there, including climbing to the top of Cadillac Mountain.

I use Tow/Haul mode sparingly - under only certain conditions - with our 24 foot Class C on an E450 chassis. I find the T/H Mode up-shifting "too soon and/or too abrupt" at times when accelerating from stops and when going uphills. Out of T/H Mode is often much smoother - which is probably due to torque converter slippage that is not allowed when in T/H Mode.

Going downhill I find T/H Mode down-shifting is great for the first down-shift on moderate downgrades, but often too abrupt and/or too soon for the second down-shift that comes with more brake pedal application after the first T/H Mode down-shift as the grade steepens. So when in T/H Mode on downgrades that steepen .... I keep tapping the brake very gently to just barely slow the RV a bit to keep T/H Mode from invoking the second level of T/H Mode down-shift. I do this to be able to use T/H Mode gently for downhill braking without the sudden jerk one gets from one more down-shift after the first. I hate having to use the shift lever to change gears on downhill grades, as it's much faster and convenient to slightly "baby" the automatic down-shifting that occurs when in T/H Mode. Our 2005 TorqShift transmission - when combined with the E450's pulling rear end differential gearing - could really use at least one or two more gears to put the gear ratios closer.

On the other hand - who am I to talk - as my driving methods may be completely wrong. When just starting out on the long trip I mentioned above, our TorqShift transmission failed after only around 51K total miles on the E450 chassis - which several mechanics said was VERY UNUSUAL. I had to pay a premium price for a one-day-turnaround installation of a heavy duty remanufactured TorqShift transmission so as to not delay the beginning of our trip much. I'm planning on installing a ScanGuage II(?), soon, so I can watch tranny temperatures from now on - even though I hate spending the money for it and know nothing about ScanGuage models or how well they work on 2005 TorqShift transmissions. :h