TUCQUALA wrote:
Yes, the discovery continues!!!
Looks to me, that Cequent has many redoes of the DC system
I'll add some to this from the manufactures perspective. This is not pointed at Cequent or any manufacture, just what I am about to state does happen to manufactures.
Being in manufacturing over the years it is very hard to predict how the open public uses your product. Specifically on a new design. Even with the best intentions, things can go wrong and opposite of what the original design thoughts where. Here is one example:
Automation control design for new systems. The engineers and techs work very hard at programming how the machine is suppose to work. During machine startup, they test every thing they can think of to find bugs in the machine control software. They eliminate a long host of problems before the customer ever sees the machine. This is nicknamed, debugging the software. The machine ships to the customer and they then have machine operators run the system. An operator can be a well seasoned person with years of experience running this type of machine. They start operating the machine and very soon operational bugs float to the surface that never came up when the machine was at the OEM factory. After enough time of running in the field you find all the bugs. There is a saying, "If you want to debug your machine controls, let an operator run it! It is guaranteed they will push a set of buttons in a different order then the developers did and they will find the bugs."
Now lets look at a possible scenario for this DC hitch. Many years ago Reese developed the 1st DC. There was nothing like it on the market. And at this time TT's where built different too. Many times the frames where overbuilt after an evolution of how to build a TT frame. The DC product over time continued to be updated, to be better from field reports of what did not fit or work. This is continuous improvement. Companies that keep trying to make their product better, get ahead before the competition runs them over. Think horse and buggy verses automobile here.
Now comes approx 1990 to ~ the year 2000. Campers start changing more. They are getting heavier as the US wants bigger campers. And TV's are able to pull these big campers. Propane tanks on the A frame can interfere with the U bolts of the DC. And WD bars need to become stronger for the bigger campers. 1,000# WD bars use to be the biggest bar you could buy. Some offered 1,200# WD bars, but 1,500 or 1,700# WD bars were unheard of. No body made them. The original standard DC was not built to with these high TW's in mind as they just did not exist commonly in the TT world. Reese is still the only manufacture of 1,700# WD hitch with integrated sway control other than the 2,000# Pull Rite hitch. Some other brands have 1,400# or 1,500# now.
Soon a 1,200# loaded TW was more common. It use to be the max you could get a WD shank to be. In the late 90's early 2000 time frame Reese introduced the HP DC. This the 1st HP DC to offer a different method on how to mount the cams to the TT and it needed to accommodate high TW's. I have one as many others do. Once one figured out all the ways it can fail from the install on your construction A Frame you have a good product. Many owners never exhibited any issues while some had problems from the get go. There is no must follow standard for the ball couplers or A frame methods of construction on a TT. About the closest is to use a 50 degree inclusive angle A frame.
After enough years of field data it was seen that if they can improve the cam bar binding problems associated with top mounted TT couplers they could have better results from customers and dealer installs. This is not a fact, but opinion. How often have we heard dealers installing the DC wrong? Thus the 2010 upgrades came.
Now lets look at the TT industry. What are they doing. Light weight is the new buzz word. This 30 plus foot camper needs to be 1/2 ton towable. Ever heard of that? And there are cost improvement needs to have higher profitability in an ever competitive market. After they beat up the main camper design above the floor they start on the TT frame. The over built frames of years gone by are light weighted.
I have tried to find a TT A frame standard before and have not been successful in what is the standard for a A frame needing WD. If anyone knows of one, please post. I have only seen 1 brand/style A frame have a rating sticker on it. There may be others, just I have not seen them. Jayco added one after enough failures on their new concept light weight campers years ago of not to exceeding 1,000# WD bars. How many folks reading this post even know what is the rating of their A frame? What is the max TW and max WD bar you can use?
Try and get a straight answer to that question from your TT dealer or TT manufacture. You might get, "The A frame can handle the appropriate TW of the GVWR of the camper." OK that is an answer at least but does not help state what is the rating? Do they use 10% of the GVWR, 15% of GVWR, 20% of GVWR? Those are big differences in loaded TW. And then what about aftermarket WD hitches and how they mount? Since TT manufactures do not build WD hitches, someone has to.
Now the WD hitch manufactures want to market a one size fits all WD hitch. I do not know if there is any collaboration between the TT frame builders or the hitch industries. I have also not seen many WD hitches state what kind of A frame they can or cannot work on. Has anyone ever see a rating on a WD hitch on what the TT frame must meet to work on their product?
Now introduce mrekim's problem. The TT manufactures tells him to go call the frame builder. The WD hitch manufacture tells him they can't help with A frame failures of the TT and we can understand why. However the WD hitch manufacture does at least respond and provides warranty parts for bent hitch parts.
In an industry where aftermarket companies make products to work on other manufactures systems, there is always going to be things that do not work correctly when evolution continues constantly and there are not easily published standards consumers can follow to select the right product. With that said, companies that stand up to help as they can, within limits, and respond to customers legitimate needs, will win long term. Service still sells.
This begs the question, any of us who have bought a WD hitch or a TT, how do you know the brand and type you bought are compatible? What are you looking for on the side of the box to make sure this TT will work with that hitch or visa versa?
OK I have rambled enough, you get the picture. If there is a complete rating system for WD hitches or A frames, please help us understand it.
