Idling engine while towing questions

[willald]

..We now have two toads: DW's daily driver, a Kia Sedona van (that has Remco lube pump to allow towing), and my daily driver, a Ford Fusion Hybrid (flat-towable from the factory, woohoo!) Reality is that we will probably tow my Fusion most trips, as it is easier and a lot more fun. However, there still will be trips where we'll want the extra space the van offers, and will want to be able to bring/tow the van.

Due to several things that have happened that I'd rather not go into in detail, we do not trust the lube pump setup on the van anymore. It is not in any way Remco's fault, they have a great product that works great when properly installed (ours was not, bottom line, haha). Horrible luck we've had with a poor installation is the main reason we've lost confidence in the lube pump.

That being the case, until our confidence is restored in the lube pump, I am seriously considering taking the approach of disconnecting the lube pump and idling the van (in neutral) on the rare occasions we tow it (maybe once or twice a year).

I've searched, and read numerous threads about folks that have had success taking this approach (idling a toad in neutral when towing). I understand fully that it means miles will be logged, and the bad things that can happen if the engine dies or overheats. I'm willing to accept that risk, given how rare it is we will do this, and how rock solid and reliable the drivetrain in this van has always been for us.

My only question/concern with this practice, is whether or not the Kia's transmission will circulate fluid through the cooler when it is in neutral. If not, I will obviously scrap this idea. If it does, then I'm thinking this idling approach should work OK.

Anyone have any specific experience or knowledge that would indicate whether or not a 2007 Kia Sedona's transmissions would circulate fluid when in neutral?

I've already tried talking to Kia technicians, and basically got no real answer. Next option (which I may well do), will be to take a fluid line loose from the cooler while idling in neutral, and see if fluid flows. Thats probably what I'll have to do, to be sure (any other ideas on what I can do, to find out for certain that fluid is flowing through cooler when in neutral?)

On a separate, but related question: You think there'd be ANY market at all on Craigs list or wherever, for a like new, Remco LP-1 Lube pump setup? Enough, to be worth the time and $$ it'd cost to remove the lube pump setup entirely from the van and put it up for sale? 🙂

[willald]

Lantley wrote:
Wow what a tale. Now if you would have only stuck with a towable RV your family could travel cramped up in a crew cab pickup like mine.

But you would not have any lube pump issues! LOL:B

Don't have to deal with the lube pump with our Ford Fusion. 🙂

..If I had stuck with the towable RV, instead I'd have to deal with......................Well, I won't go there, hahahahaha! 🙂

I like your creative out of the box thinking. But the idea of running two engines doesn't seem practical. I understand you don't plan to do it often, however I'm always a bit agitated when we drive two vehicles to the CG to carry additional passengers that won't squeeze into the crew cab.
I'm sure I'd be real disturbed if I were burning even more gas by towing an idling car.

..The gas aspect is the least of my concerns with this approach, Lantley. Its only going to be idling, using very little fuel, even when going 65 mph. Would be getting incredible mileage, hahaha! 🙂

I'll be more concerned about not being able to see the gauges on that engine (temperature, oil pressure, etc.) while its running. But, a small, portable wireless video camera and monitor will solve that, and may be something we look into if we do this idling thing a lot.

Or better yet: Let one of the kids ride back there with a 2 way radio in their hand, and make them watch the dashboard! Oh, wait, I guess thats illegal. Drats! 😉

..But then again I didn't witness the spraying hose drama.

Yeah, its a case where its hard to 'un-see' that, haha. I'll get over that eventually, and we'll probably be fine towing the van. Like I said, though, in the meantime, the Ford Fusion is aweseome. 🙂

Will

[Bbrandall23]

Not sure if this info is still needed but you most definitely are pumping fluid through your transmission cooler at idle and it is scary that the dealer could not answer that question. Very scary. The only thing I would question is if your getting enough lubrication at high speeds and the reason I do is most trucks won't let your engine RPMs drop down to regular idle if you slip the transmission into neutral while driving down the highway at higher speeds it keeps them up above 1000 and the reason why is to ensure good lubrication to that transmission at those RPMs now that being said I have driven many of vehicles that will let the RPMs drop all the way down to regular idle at high speeds when slipped into neutral. My initial opinion on your situation is that you would be okay and I would believe the manufacturers take that very thing into consideration while tuning the vehicle they do at least with the GM trucks. I hope I shed some light on it for you and did not just cause more questions.

[Bbrandall23]

My 03 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 4.7 l V8 and auto trans will go to reg idle rpm at highway speeds when slipped into neutral. My 04 Silverado 2500 HD with 6.0 gas 4L80E trans will only let it go to regular rpm idle if road speeds are low. My 04 Silverado HD with Duramax and Allison is another story all together now I am not sure exactly what happened maybe someone can answer my question, one night while out of town working me and my brother were out looking for some back roads trying to have some fun and for some reason I got going about 50 or 60 and put the trans in neutral and let it cost no throttle and after the truck slowed to around 15 or 20 mph it straight to up just about locked up now I'm almost 100 percent positive it was in neutral my brother was kinda thinking more guessing I put it in reverse this was in my younger dumber days when I did used to do a little buzzed driving but it was maybe 2 or 3 beers at most over 2 hours period so that is the small chance he could be right. I am pretty dang certain though it was neutral just out of curiosity has anyone experienced this? 

[way2roll]

I am sure Willald or others may find this information useful, but I wasn't sure if you're aware that you are responding to a post that's 11 years old. Willald hasn't been on here in in a while.

If you have a question, you may want to post a new topic. You won't get much traction on a response buried in an 11 year old post. 

[Lantley]

Wow what a tale. Now if you would have only stuck with a towable RV your family could travel cramped up in a crew cab pickup like mine.

But you would not have any lube pump issues! LOL:B

I see the motorized RVs can be just a challenging/aggravating as the towables.
Good Luck, Now that the spraying tranny fluid has scarred you for life. Hopefully you get it all sorted out without losing any more fluid.

I like your creative out of the box thinking. But the idea of running two engines doesn't seem practical. I understand you don't plan to do it often, however I'm always a bit agitated when we drive two vehicles to the CG to carry additional passengers that won't squeeze into the crew cab.
I'm sure I'd be real disturbed if I were burning even more gas by towing an idling car.
But then again I didn't witness the spraying hose drama.

[willald]

rjstractor wrote:
Will, I must have lost track of your other thread. Sounds like you got the Readybrake installed in the Fusion ok?

Not quite yet. I ordered the RB cable and Readystop unit, that is supposed to be here Wednesday. As I noted in that other thread, I found an RV shop/dealer that is experienced with Readybrake. They are willing to do the installation, and confident it can be done on our Fusion. Will probably be done one day next week, or maybe later this week, not sure yet.

Will

[rjstractor]

Will, I must have lost track of your other thread. Sounds like you got the Readybrake installed in the Fusion ok?

[willald]

Well, last week I had the van in at the dealership, having them replace the pressure sensor the Remco pump uses (at their expense - they accidentally fried the sensor last time it was in to fix the first leak).

Had a long talk with the technician there. He knows for a fact that the Kia's transmission will be fine if we just idle the engine when towing. Sooo, its good to know that is a viable option as well, if the lube pump ever has any issues again. Still, though, the only way I'm going to feel safe towing the van, is if we bring with us 4 or 5 quarts of tranny fluid, in case it springs another leak and pukes it all out again, haha. 🙂

He also confirmed what I suspected - removing the pump setup completely and trying to sell it is just not realistic. By the time you replace the tranny pan (that now has a hole drilled in it for the pickup for the pump), and pay for all the other labor involved in removing the pump setup, you've pretty much spent waay more than you'd possibly get selling the pump. Sooo, the pump setup stays on, we're pretty much stuck with it, whether we use it or not.

..And to be honest, now after our 2nd trip we just got back from using our other, new vehicle for towing behind the MH (new Ford Fusion Hybrid)....I'm not sure how much if at all, we'll ever tow the van with us behind the MH. The Fusion is soooo much more fun to drive, and so much more simple and stress free for towing.

Once the 'newness' (is that a word?) of the Fusion wears off, we will probably use the van again, but for now...I really like the simplicity of towing with the Fusion - no lube pump, no costly modifications or worries about transmission frying, or crazy procedures needed whatsoever to tow it. Just put it in neutral and go.

Will

[WaterGlide]

Towed my 1993 Ford Taurus for 2 years with the engine running in neutral. Never a problem and it got 100 miles to the gallon. Tested it first in the driveway, let it idle for two hours, never got hot because the electric fan comes on. Since I use a Brake Buddy, I installed a 3 way valve in the vacuum line to the power brake booster so I could vent the line so it wouldn't be power brakes when the engine idles or the brake buddy would lock them up. No problem with the power steering so far as I could tell, tires wore normally. Alot cheaper and easier than installing an axle disconnect for $1000 dollars. On the Taurus, you have to lower the sub frame to remove the front sway bar to shorten one end, weld it up and reinstall, not a simple job.

[BJean]

just read your post and I am having about the same problem as you. Had Remco lube pump installed in toad in 2009- towed for 3 yrs w/no problems. Last yr had a car fire due to leak in the lube pump line. Had the car towed to Chevy dealer who installed new line. 2 days later, line came off while driving down a city street & left all our trans fluid on the pavement. Tranny quickly ran dry & car refused to move. Had it towed to Chevy again for repair. Then 3 mo later took car to same dealer for a hole in a trans line & had all the old original trans lines replaced. This spring we had a leak (hole) again & same garage replaced line. Last week- another leak (tear) & again they fixed it w/new line. 2 days later same drill w/all fluid out in street & car runs dry & stops. Towed to same Chevy dealer. The hubby called & demanded to talk to the tech- who said that first repairs were made with what they had in stock- which was gas & vacuum line. We were told that this time they had purchased proper high pressure lines & replaced all lines w/dbl clamps. Fun & games- all our trans fluid is now out on the garage floor & driveway. We hooked it up to the motorhome to tow it to a bigger dealer in a bigger city & the lube pump pumped it everywhere. Called tow truck. Can anybody answer if the pump can over pressure the line & cause this? Or how can a dealership be this incompetent? We would appreciate any insight anyone can give us.

[willald]

F1bNorm wrote:
With the engine running, both power steering and power brakes would active. Something to consider?

I know.

Power brakes would not be a problem at all, as I use a ReadyBrake system, which is basically a surge system. Because of the way its designed, its just about impossible for it to ever 'over-brake' your toad, regardless whether the power brakes are on or not. It would actually help it some.

The power steering being on, is definitely something I've been thinking about as well. Based on what I understand about how power steering works, though, I don't think it will cause a problem. Also, if you do some reading, searching on this subject, you'll see where there are folks that have done this (idling) approach, and never had any issue with the power steering.

Will

[F1bNorm]

With the engine running, both power steering and power brakes would active. Something to consider?

[willald]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
If a water line blew off your water heater would you not use the water heater again after fixing the water line??

If radiator hose blew.......would you not ever drive your rig again after fixing radiator hose?

You had a problem.......you fixed the problem.
Use the right equipment for the job.

Haha, very good points, and 'twas exactly what I was expecting to hear.

The hose blow off incident was NOT the only incident or issue we've had. There's been a multitude, which have caused us to not have much confidence. The blow off incident was just the most recent, and the one that sticks out in memory the most. 🙂

I do plan to continue to use the 'right equipment' (lube pump) now that its working right. I was just trying to establish, confirm a good 'backup' solution to the lube pump, for when/if we have another issue.

Will

[Old-Biscuit]

If a water line blew off your water heater would you not use the water heater again after fixing the water line??

If radiator hose blew.......would you not ever drive your rig again after fixing radiator hose?

You had a problem.......you fixed the problem.
Use the right equipment for the job.