What are Noble Classic high gloss fiberglass sidewalls??

westend, Where did you find info showing Adzel walls use water soluble glue and they delaminate because of it?

westend wrote:
If you're concerned with delamination, buy an aluminum sided trailer. In a fiberglass walled trailer, the bond between the subsurface and the fiberglass is only as good as the adhesive and the construction process. Many Azdel composite walls delaminate because the adhesive is water soluble so a leak means delamination.

Thank the EPA......and low VOC regs.......

If you're concerned with delamination, buy an aluminum sided trailer. In a fiberglass walled trailer, the bond between the subsurface and the fiberglass is only as good as the adhesive and the construction process. Many Azdel composite walls delaminate because the adhesive is water soluble so a leak means delamination.

BeerBrewer wrote:
I'm not really concerned with wood and/or plywood being used in Travel Trailer construction. I know plywood is routinely used in walls, floors and roofs and I'm okay with it, as long as I know it a head of time. I don't like it when RV manufactures have lauan or other "rottable" wood materials laminated into the their fiberglass sidewalls and they then give it glitzy names like "TuffShell" or "Vacuum Laminated Roof and Walls". This is nothing more than marketing hype that unfortunately gives the impression that their walls would never rot or delaminate, when we all know that isn't true. A side from the boarder line misleading advertising, my main issue is that if the lauan or wood that is laminated inside my TT walls gets wet due a leak and starts to delaminate there is nothing that I can do to fix it. On the other hand if a traditional aluminum sided TV gets wet and starts to rot, I know that I can fix it. Odds are it wouldn't be easy, but I know that I have the carpentry skills to repair it. I can't say the same for fiberglass/Lauan laminated sidewall, this sounds like an expensive job for a pro RV Tech, if it can be repaired at all. From what I've read a lot of RV owners don't know that they have a leak until after they notice the delamination occurring, which is often too late.

I was interested in TTs that use the Azdel material because it is very light, supposedly is not pron to delamination (at least that is what I've read) and it resists mold and mildew.

I honestly don't know what type of TT we'll end up with but I can honestly say that we'll likely shy away from TT's that have wood materials laminated into the sidewalls.

Perhaps you should consider a sticks and bricks cabin or stick and tin trailer then because the vast majority of laminated wall RV's are going to have Luan plywood in the construction. I've owned 3, all with luan in the sandwich including laminated floors, and have not had an issue with any of them.

The RV Industry is rife with marketing BS in brochures and on websites. Azdel, Amish Craftsmanship, etc. Terms like "no short cuts are taken" and "glued and screwed wood cabinetry" where the wood is only the doors or drawer fronts, the cabinets panels and stiles/rails themselves are fiberboard wrapped in contact paper.

The best is on the back of Forest River Brochures......



That would lead one to believe all units go through this place by how its conveniently worded. That could not be further from the truth. That facility may see 1 out of every 200 units produced.......maybe.

They tout 8 million sq ft of manufacturing space and devote 20000 sq ft to "quality assurance". What is that as a percentage? 0.25% LOL

I'm not really concerned with wood and/or plywood being used in Travel Trailer construction. I know plywood is routinely used in walls, floors and roofs and I'm okay with it, as long as I know it a head of time. I don't like it when RV manufactures have lauan or other "rottable" wood materials laminated into the their fiberglass sidewalls and they then give it glitzy names like "TuffShell" or "Vacuum Laminated Roof and Walls". This is nothing more than marketing hype that unfortunately gives the impression that their walls would never rot or delaminate, when we all know that isn't true. A side from the boarder line misleading advertising, my main issue is that if the lauan or wood that is laminated inside my TT walls gets wet due a leak and starts to delaminate there is nothing that I can do to fix it. On the other hand if a traditional aluminum sided TV gets wet and starts to rot, I know that I can fix it. Odds are it wouldn't be easy, but I know that I have the carpentry skills to repair it. I can't say the same for fiberglass/Lauan laminated sidewall, this sounds like an expensive job for a pro RV Tech, if it can be repaired at all. From what I've read a lot of RV owners don't know that they have a leak until after they notice the delamination occurring, which is often too late.

I was interested in TTs that use the Azdel material because it is very light, supposedly is not pron to delamination (at least that is what I've read) and it resists mold and mildew.

I honestly don't know what type of TT we'll end up with but I can honestly say that we'll likely shy away from TT's that have wood materials laminated into the sidewalls.

BeerBrewer wrote:

Ralph Cramden wrote:

BeerBrewer wrote:
I was at that Web site and when I read the technical specs it said "MADE WITH CARB PHASE 2 COMPLIANT LAUAN". As stated above I'm not sure what that is but it sounds like lauan plywood that meets some CARB (California Air Resources Board) spec. Now I probally missed it, but no where on that spec sheet did I read that it says it was wood free. Where did you read that?

Crane Composites Website.

Noble® Select | NS
All-Composite Wood Free Sheet Glass Panels

An all-composite, wood-free exterior panel with superior surface and weathering performance. Noble Select is designed for both laminated and free-hung wall applications and is preferred where full-body paint is required.

Of course the fiberglass panel itself is "wood free" LOL, not sure why they would even bother to state that. Then Winnie buys that product from Crane, and laminates it into the wall panel using Luan plywood for the substrate layer and inner wall surface.

Ralph.....I agree that Nobel Select panels are wood free. Unfortunately, the Winnebago Mini TT uses Nobel Classic panels and NOT Nobel Select panels. The Crane Technical Data sheet for the "classic panel" has the following statement in it "MADE WITH CARB PHASE 2 COMPLIANT LAUAN" (http://www.cranecomposites.com/pdf/65147.pdf). WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN????? To me Lauan is nothing more than very cheap WOOD PLYWOOD that will rot once it meets water.

I sent an email over to Winnebago Tech support for clarification. Hopefully...they will respond.

riven1950 ....I looked at the Apex TTs and they do look nice...thanks for the tip!

One things for certain, and that is Winnebago uses Luan plywood for the substrate, no matter if they are laminating it or Crane is. I certainly do not get excited about Azdel. On Coachmen products, Heartland, and some others its used for the outer substrate but only for the sidewalls. Get water in the wall and the fiberglass can still delaminate from the Azdel, or the Azdel from the foam layer, and the inner wall surface is still plywood. So is the floor, the roof, and most likely the end walls although a lot are fiberglass laminated to a material a lot like cardboard.

IMO its nothing more than marketing hogwash. Better than Luan? Yes. But since 75% of the rig is still some type of plywood you're not gaining much. A lot of people with Coachmens think they have a miracle trailer, they're confused.

The best bet is buy what you like and do preventative maintenance regularly.

Ralph Cramden wrote:

BeerBrewer wrote:
I was at that Web site and when I read the technical specs it said "MADE WITH CARB PHASE 2 COMPLIANT LAUAN". As stated above I'm not sure what that is but it sounds like lauan plywood that meets some CARB (California Air Resources Board) spec. Now I probally missed it, but no where on that spec sheet did I read that it says it was wood free. Where did you read that?

Crane Composites Website.

Noble® Select | NS
All-Composite Wood Free Sheet Glass Panels

An all-composite, wood-free exterior panel with superior surface and weathering performance. Noble Select is designed for both laminated and free-hung wall applications and is preferred where full-body paint is required.

Of course the fiberglass panel itself is "wood free" LOL, not sure why they would even bother to state that. Then Winnie buys that product from Crane, and laminates it into the wall panel using Luan plywood for the substrate layer and inner wall surface.

Ralph.....I agree that Nobel Select panels are wood free. Unfortunately, the Winnebago Mini TT uses Nobel Classic panels and NOT Nobel Select panels. The Crane Technical Data sheet for the "classic panel" has the following statement in it "MADE WITH CARB PHASE 2 COMPLIANT LAUAN" (http://www.cranecomposites.com/pdf/65147.pdf). WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT MEAN????? To me Lauan is nothing more than very cheap WOOD PLYWOOD that will rot once it meets water.

I sent an email over to Winnebago Tech support for clarification. Hopefully...they will respond.

riven1950 ....I looked at the Apex TTs and they do look nice...thanks for the tip!

Lwiddis wrote:
Not sure I’ve read of any Winnebago delamination issues.

Just because you have not heard of any means little, especially when you take into account Winnebago sells very few Travel Trailers and 5th wheels when compared to the Thor and Forest River brands, along with the fact they sold none at all prior to 2011 when they acquired Sunnybrook.

Lwiddis wrote:
Not sure I’ve read of any Winnebago delamination issues. And what quality brand isn’t using fiberglass sidewalls other than Airstream?

Blue Bird, Liberty/Prevost, Newell. Get the picture?

My Sahara is aluminum with stainless steel basement doors. I get aluminum corrosion bubbles under the paint.

BeerBrewer wrote:
I was at that Web site and when I read the technical specs it said "MADE WITH CARB PHASE 2 COMPLIANT LAUAN". As stated above I'm not sure what that is but it sounds like lauan plywood that meets some CARB (California Air Resources Board) spec. Now I probally missed it, but no where on that spec sheet did I read that it says it was wood free. Where did you read that?

Crane Composites Website.

Noble® Select | NS
All-Composite Wood Free Sheet Glass Panels

An all-composite, wood-free exterior panel with superior surface and weathering performance. Noble Select is designed for both laminated and free-hung wall applications and is preferred where full-body paint is required.

Of course the fiberglass panel itself is "wood free" LOL, not sure why they would even bother to state that. Then Winnie buys that product from Crane, and laminates it into the wall panel using Luan plywood for the substrate layer and inner wall surface.