Attention Grand Design Owners...

[ajmcd64]

Hello all,

Not new here but in hibernation for a while...
We are about to pull the trigger on a Grand Design 2670MK. Looking for feedback from Grand Design owners in general, and owners of the 2670MK regarding design, drawbacks, etc.

Thanks in advance!

[ajmcd64]

Just as a follow up to the friendly folks here, I pulled the trigger on the Grand Design 2670MK at the Tampa RV show. Taking delivery early March. Going up to MI to visit Pro Pride (we have friends in the area to visit). Still perusing these (and other)forums, but leaning toward the PP, but it's a pricey addition.

[Huntindog]

goducks10 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

The main body of the HA is left bolted to the tongue when done towing. Same as the propane tanks, batteries or the chain pull ups.

Unlike a standard WDH where the main body is slipped into the receiver the HA is attached to the tongue.

One COULD leave a traditional WD hitch attached to the TT.. Simply release the pressure on the bars, pull the hitch pin on the drawbar, and drive away. Not any different than the Propride/HA.

[goducks10]

Huntindog wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

The main body of the HA is left bolted to the tongue when done towing. Same as the propane tanks, batteries or the chain pull ups.

Unlike a standard WDH where the main body is slipped into the receiver the HA is attached to the tongue.

[Huntindog]

BarneyS wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

And I disagree with you. 🙂
Do you not add the weight of a standard hitch to the payload of a truck before it is hooked up to the trailer? The same exact thing applies to the HA/PP hitches. They are left on the trailer all the time just like the batteries or propane bottles and IMO should be counted as part of the tongue weight. If you weigh the tongue, you put down the front jack on a scale and the result you get would be a weight that includes the HA/PP hitch. It is not removed and inserted into the truck like a standard hitch - only the stinger is , which becomes just like the hitch head and shank of a normal hitch and would not be include in the tongue weight. The hitch becomes, in essence, another coupler- just a very fancy, expensive one which is attached to the trailer tongue and should be counted in the tongue weight. :W
Barney

So you disagree..... Why do you think he is not happy with the way it tows?
My money is on the Propride's weight being included in the TW, making the TT inherently unstable.... But the design of the Propride makes sway impossible even with low TW.... That doesn't mean it will feel right. It is just masking the underlying issue.

[BarneyS]

Huntindog wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

And I disagree with you. 🙂
Do you not add the weight of a standard hitch to the payload of a truck before it is hooked up to the trailer? The same exact thing applies to the HA/PP hitches. They are left on the trailer all the time just like the batteries or propane bottles and IMO should be counted as part of the tongue weight. If you weigh the tongue, you put down the front jack on a scale and the result you get would be a weight that includes the HA/PP hitch. It is not removed and inserted into the truck like a standard hitch - only the stinger is , which becomes just like the hitch head and shank of a normal hitch and would not be include in the tongue weight. The hitch becomes, in essence, another coupler- just a very fancy, expensive one which is attached to the trailer tongue and should be counted in the tongue weight. :W
Barney

[Huntindog]

goducks10 wrote:
The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

I disagree. When any style of hitch is hooked up, they are semi permanently attached to the TT.... But none of that weight should be used to calculate TW.... TW percentage is a figure used to determine the INHERENT stability of the TT alone....If you cheat on this figure, you only cheat yourself.

[Huntindog]

GD grey and black tanks are behind the axels in this model, and water is in front. So my 10% was with full water, and no waste - but pretty much otherwise as delivered,

This /\/\/\ is a red flag for me.

[goducks10]

The HA/PP are semi permanently fixed to the tongue so it's part of the TW. Same as adding a couple more batteries.

[ajmcd64]

Some good points I didn't know...thank you for that. Heading to Tampa on Wednesday for Tampa show. Hope Grand Design brings a scale. I will also look into the Pro Pride, although the steep price tag wasn't in my numbers. I'll have to find a way to work it in. I will expect Pro Pride and Hensley will be there as well.

[Flapper]

Huntindog wrote:

Flapper wrote:
Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).

I believe the weight of the hitch does not count as TW of the TT.. Most here seem to agree on this. I also believe that the weight of the hitch should be counted against the allowable TW as far as the reciever is concerned.

In other words, the TT TW needs to be over 10% not counting the hitch WT. That is what will make the TT inherently stable.. But the reciever will be supporting/distributing the TW of the TT AND the hitch, so the total should be under it's rating.
The propride will not let the TT sway, even if the TW is light... But it will just be masking the real problem of light TT TW. So that is likely why it feels unsettled when you tow it.

This is the problem with some lashups with the propride/hensly design.

A marginal TV that they would be perfect for, runs out of capacity pretty easy when used with a heavy TW TT, and the weight of the hitch.

I don't know your numbers, but if you can add more TW temporairly as a test... See if it feels better.

Also, I am a big fan of more than most like for TW. Depending on the design of the TT, and your specific usage of it.. Weight can shift around a LOT in the course of a trip. The GD has large holding tanks. That alone can be a major factor. And sometimes during a cold weather hunt, we return home with next to no propane in the tanks. Food gets eaten and becomes waste.. Many other items can move around as well.
I like to be right at 15% or more when I start a trip.. Then I have no worries about the return trip.

Well, just so the OP has a benchmark - for tongue weight, I am using the amount I got using a scale under the coupler, divided by the total weight as measured at a truck scale. This agrees fairly well with the numbers I calculate when weighing all the axels at a truck scale. for the full rig, and then again just for the unhitched TV.
GD grey and black tanks are behind the axels in this model, and water is in front. So my 10% was with full water, and no waste - but pretty much otherwise as delivered, with the bad hitch. The 12.5% came with empty tanks, and loaded for camping, with the ProPride.
Currently have switched to 2 6v batteries, so I might be a bit heavier now.
Eyeballing it, the trailer seemed a bit nose up the last trip. My storage lot insists on being the one to move the trailer, and I'm suspicious as to the effect their method has on the alignment of the hitch. They may have caused some of the adjustments to slip....so time to remeasure and re torque everything....

I agree - more weight is better for preventing sway. The rest of the truck easily exceeds weight specs, so I have lots of margin, but getting close on the receiver max.

[Huntindog]

Flapper wrote:
Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).

I believe the weight of the hitch does not count as TW of the TT.. Most here seem to agree on this. I also believe that the weight of the hitch should be counted against the allowable TW as far as the reciever is concerned.

In other words, the TT TW needs to be over 10% not counting the hitch WT. That is what will make the TT inherently stable.. But the reciever will be supporting/distributing the TW of the TT AND the hitch, so the total should be under it's rating.
The propride will not let the TT sway, even if the TW is light... But it will just be masking the real problem of light TT TW. So that is likely why it feels unsettled when you tow it.

This is the problem with some lashups with the propride/hensly design.

A marginal TV that they would be perfect for, runs out of capacity pretty easy when used with a heavy TW TT, and the weight of the hitch.

I don't know your numbers, but if you can add more TW temporairly as a test... See if it feels better.

Also, I am a big fan of more than most like for TW. Depending on the design of the TT, and your specific usage of it.. Weight can shift around a LOT in the course of a trip. The GD has large holding tanks. That alone can be a major factor. And sometimes during a cold weather hunt, we return home with next to no propane in the tanks. Food gets eaten and becomes waste.. Many other items can move around as well.
I like to be right at 15% or more when I start a trip.. Then I have no worries about the return trip.

[Flapper]

Late to the party. I have the 2017 version of this model. Tow with a 2012 F-150, HDPP. 2166 payload. 6000 miles on it.

Can't speak to the latest model, but mine was very, very light on the nose, even with full water (10%). I had scary sway a few times during the early period of owning. Was using an inadequate hitch. Got the ProPride hitch, which settled it down. Current TW is about 920 (12.5%). Mostly due to the very heavy hitch. You may have to plan on figuring out ways to add lots of weight to the nose if not spending the big $$ for the hitch - more batteries, over hitch bike rack, etc. - if GD has not reworked it. Online specs lead me to think not - but they are bad about keeping those things current.
If buying from a dealer, I would demand they scale the unit, to see if it is too light on the tongue, or not. 12% on the tongue is the bare minimum you want to see.
I still get a bit of movement from "truck suck" as the big rigs pass me. Wife is not comfortable driving it, although I've gotten used to it. The spring project is to go over everything with ProPride, to see if it is all set up correctly.
Milage on the Ecoboost is 8.5. Bummer, as my old fifth got 10. Different aerodynamics, and more sticking out behind. There is a lot of tail to wag the dog.
No useability complaints - we had a few things fixed under warranty, and there were a couple of recalls for that year, but nothing that interfered with its use.
While quality is on a par with similar priced other brands, GD does excel at customer response. The only thing I ever got from Jayco was "check with your dealer". GD will chase down answers to questions, step in if the dealer is dragging their feet, etc. They even will authorize anyone to do warranty work on it...(except for Camping World).

[goducks10]

ajmcd64 wrote:
Thank you all.

I just bought a 2019 F 150 XLT 3.5 ecoboost, super crew with max tow and HDPP. GVWR is 7850 with available cargo of 2507. GCWR of 16,100. Just me and the wife with the occasional grandkids coming along. Basing everthing off max weight (GD 8500# GVWR and F150 7850 GVWR) I should be find pulling with weight to spare. GCWR is ~16,300#

Planning on 13% TW which including wd is 1205#. That leaves 1300# for me, wife and cargo. Am I missing anything?

I guess I need to update my signature. :S

Exc choice on truck. Should work great.

[mbopp]

I towed our 2650 with a F150 EB (not max tow) with a 1487# payload. The published tongue weights for GD's are bogus. I was 200# over on my truck gross weight and rear axle, and it's just my wife and I.

There's a new F-250 sitting in the driveway now.

But to the OP, the HDPP F150 should do nicely.