Gas vs Diesel for Towing a Fifth Wheel!!!

[Taylor90]

I have some issues picking a suitable towing vehicle to haul a travel trailer. Gas vs diesel for towing a fifth wheel? Which one is better? Any suggestion?

[4x4ord]

lazydays wrote:
Since 2003 I've pulled different campers with a Ford 5.3l, Chevy 6.0l, Dodge V10, and Chevy 6.6l diesel. No way would I go back to gas. I've owned the diesel going on 7 years and have only put 42k miles on it so I very rarely use the truck. Mainly weekend driving and pulling the camper in the Summer. Cost of ownership means nothing to me or I wouldn't own a camper, boat, multiple cars, ect. Took my Dad who almost 70 when he finally realized that diesel was the way to go and he's on his second now.

You might find that there are some 2018 gassers that will tow nicer than your 05 Duramax does.

[deltabravo]

Ask the guys that transport RVs from factories to dealers... rarely will one say "gas is better for heavy towing".

I did summer time transport in 2014 and 2015. DIESEL all the way, even though I wasn't towing heavy. Units I hauled were 21-25 feet most of the time. I had a very easy route too, with minimal change in elevation, but I still prefered diesel for that route.

[goducks10]

I don't look at it as a cost per mile thing at all. I got the diesel option cause I wanted it. Same as those who get the Laramie/Lariat option. How about the bigger screen on your radio? The fancier rims? etc. It'a all part of buying a car or truck. Just option it out like you want, drive it until your bored with it and get another.

[Kayteg1]

My new F350 Powerstroke pulls 17k lb on long California grades without downshifting from 1600 rpm overdrive.
The first truck where I don't hear the engine while cruising and can enjoy Sirus radio.
Anyway, choosing the engine is mostly economical decision.
The $8000 up front fee for diesel is hard to swallow, so I always advise to take a pencil with piece of paper and calculate the miles you plan to drive before you sell the truck.
Then calculate the cost of fuel different engines will burn on that distance. This is tricky part as lot of people will misrepresent that, but you see fuely report for my truck in signature. That is 2017 truck used 95% of the time with either camper, or 7000 lb cargo trailer.
On Fuely you will also find actuall reports from gasoline trucks and the site also holds the notes how the trucks are used.
Also don't forget to calculate much higher resale value of diesel.
I am diesel guy and I also value the time saved by not pulling often to gas station. My latest diesel sedan makes 800 miles on the tank, so I can drive from Las Vegas to San Francisco, do some errands there and still avoiding filling up at killer prices till I get back to Bakersfield. So not only convenience, but also nice dollar saving by avoiding fill ups in high-priced areas.
Good luck with your research.

[lazydays]

Since 2003 I've pulled different campers with a Ford 5.3l, Chevy 6.0l, Dodge V10, and Chevy 6.6l diesel. No way would I go back to gas. I've owned the diesel going on 7 years and have only put 42k miles on it so I very rarely use the truck. Mainly weekend driving and pulling the camper in the Summer. Cost of ownership means nothing to me or I wouldn't own a camper, boat, multiple cars, ect. Took my Dad who almost 70 when he finally realized that diesel was the way to go and he's on his second now.

[DiskDoctr]

valhalla360 wrote:
But given the available engines, the idea that a typical non-commercial diesel will outlast a gas engine by 2-3 times is just silly...

Of course, if you really are putting 500k miles on a pickup (maybe 50k/yr on the carnie circuit),

Listen, you're entitled to your opinion, but others are capable of making their points without being disrespectful or rude. Perhaps you could show similar courtesy to your fellow posters.

Google: Ad Ignominiam Diversion

It's an invalid argument to mock others' position and it is considered quite rude and often inflammatory.

Make your case respectfully or move along.

[valhalla360]

billypro93 wrote:
The biggest problem with the average gas truck on the lot is it's set up with gears that belong in a low rpm diesel truck, gas and diesel motor are two different animals and they need to be geared differently to be a good pulling motor. Gas motors are higher rpm motors and need lower gears (higher numerical numbers) to keep the motor in its power range just like a diesel needs higher gears to keep it in its power range. You will also find that a gas motor with lower gears will get better millage pulling and empty (if you keep our speed down empty) than one with higher gears because the motor doesn't have to work as hard also the running gear like the transmission will last longer because of less stress. Class A motor homes don't have this problem because they come with the right gears from the factory unlike trucks that you have beg a dealer to order one geared the right way because they all believe that higher gears mean better mileage. You have to remember that the newer generation gas motor are made to run at higher rpms compared to older ones. I have to LOL when I here someone say they would never pull with a gas motor again but when you question them they had a gas motor with high gears so it had to work its butt off to pull their trailer but the diesel just cruises along with the same gears and rpm but the gas motor was not in its power band like the diesel. We started RVing in 1978 and every used truck we bought before we started buying new I had to change the rear end gears to make them pull the intended load also keep a eye on the tire size because bigger tires raise the final gearing where the rubber meets the road.

Check out the new transmissions. Gone are the days of the 3speed automatic where you had to choose pulling power vs MPG. With 6 and 8 speed transmissions, it's a lot easier for the truck to pick the right overall gear ratio to keep the engine happy.

[billypro93]

The biggest problem with the average gas truck on the lot is it's set up with gears that belong in a low rpm diesel truck, gas and diesel motor are two different animals and they need to be geared differently to be a good pulling motor. Gas motors are higher rpm motors and need lower gears (higher numerical numbers) to keep the motor in its power range just like a diesel needs higher gears to keep it in its power range. You will also find that a gas motor with lower gears will get better millage pulling and empty (if you keep our speed down empty) than one with higher gears because the motor doesn't have to work as hard also the running gear like the transmission will last longer because of less stress. Class A motor homes don't have this problem because they come with the right gears from the factory unlike trucks that you have beg a dealer to order one geared the right way because they all believe that higher gears mean better mileage. You have to remember that the newer generation gas motor are made to run at higher rpms compared to older ones. I have to LOL when I here someone say they would never pull with a gas motor again but when you question them they had a gas motor with high gears so it had to work its butt off to pull their trailer but the diesel just cruises along with the same gears and rpm but the gas motor was not in its power band like the diesel. We started RVing in 1978 and every used truck we bought before we started buying new I had to change the rear end gears to make them pull the intended load also keep a eye on the tire size because bigger tires raise the final gearing where the rubber meets the road.

[valhalla360]

valhalla360 wrote:

DiskDoctr wrote:


Fuel savings are one thing, but when you consider a single diesel to outlast...maybe 2 or 3 gassers...Then you have $50k-$70k savings x 2 or x3 with perhaps $2k per year to keep the diesel parts fresh and not worn out.

So $50k every 5 years for a new gasser...buys a LOT of diesel, LOL.

Lots of other things to consider, but this is the one that attracted me to diesel the most. Longevity. Sure, nearly constant "something" needing done, but it's getting less and less expensive. Figure about $2k every 200k miles, with a $5k bump for a HD transmission upgrade ONCE for lifetime, depending on your truck.

Of course, you have to be okay with driving an older truck. Some people like to drive a new one every couple of years, though. To each his own :C

Again, as stated, they don't make gas engines for commercial trucks that last as long as diesels because there is no demand for the engine but that is fuel costs driving the process. Technologically, it can be done fairly simply.

But given the available engines, the idea that a typical non-commercial diesel will outlast a gas engine by 2-3 times is just silly. Gas engines routinely get 200-250k miles and that typically corresponds to around 20yrs. By that point other parts of the truck are failing and it's no longer cost effective to replace them.

Of course, if you really are putting 500k miles on a pickup (maybe 50k/yr on the carnie circuit), for less than the original cost of the diesel upgrade, you can have a new gas engine dropped in.

If you simply want a diesel and can afford it...go for it.
If you are pulling heavy beyond what the gas engines are rated for...go for it.
If you really want an exhaust break because you spend a lot of time in the mountains...go for it.
If you want a balanced comparison of which makes more sense...longevity is no longer a viable argument.

[dapperdan]

Valhalla,

You bring up great points. I agree most if not all transportation companies look at diesels from a cost effective basis, I get that. Having driven diesels for 37years I'm bias to them I suppose.

For me pulling a fifth wheel is a no brainer with a diesel but that's MY choice and more importantly MY money. Gasoline is definately cheaper than diesel but I know for myself I appreciate the extra torque I get from my Cummins pulling on hills and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Dan

[laknox]

Taylor90 wrote:
I have some issues picking a suitable towing vehicle to haul a travel trailer. Gas vs diesel for towing a fifth wheel? Which one is better? Any suggestion?

Without reading ahead...

It all depends on how often you plan on camping and where you plan on going. If you are only going to be a weekend warrior, with an occasional longer trip, a gasser might be better for you. Especially so if your truck will be a daily, or near-daily, driver. Now, if you're planning on long trips, especially going into hilly or mountainous country, the diesel will serve you better, IMO. When we first started looking at diesel trucks for our farm years ago, my dad's favorite saying was "all that money you spend just to have a diesel engine can buy a =lot= of gas."

Lyle

[DiskDoctr]

valhalla360 wrote:

dapperdan wrote:


The reason I say this is IF gasoline engines were superior to diesel why is it ALL the major truck manufactures are and have equipped their trucks with diesel motors for the last 50 years? You can easily get a million miles out of a diesel if maintained properly. Then there's the torque factor.

Dan

It's about fuel costs.
- Your average RV might do 2000 miles per year at 10MPG, so about 200gal or about $500/yr. If you cut fuel costs by 20%, that's a whopping $100/yr on a $10,000 engine upgrade.
- Commercial trucks frequently do 2000 miles per week at 6MPG towing much heavier loads, so about $675/wk. A 10% cost per mile fuel savings will result in around $3500/yr in fuel savings and they can easily justify the additional up front cost of a diesel. Go back 15-20yrs and the fuel savings was closer to 30-40% because it was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG.

This is born out as you are seeing Natural Gas powered trucks because if you have easy access to it, it's cheap.

The durability of commercial diesel engines is because it's common for a big commercial truck to put in 500k+ miles. If you don't build an engine that can do that, the competition will beat you. By comparison retail vehicles are usually worn out by the time they hit 200-250k miles (30-40yrs ago it was 100-150k miles) so there is no point in building an engine that does a million miles. It just adds cost without any benefit to the buyer.

If there was demand for a "million mile" gas engine, it's not technologically hard to do but they don't do it because there isn't a demand.

Fuel savings are one thing, but when you consider a single diesel to outlast...maybe 2 or 3 gassers...Then you have $50k-$70k savings x 2 or x3 with perhaps $2k per year to keep the diesel parts fresh and not worn out.

So $50k every 5 years for a new gasser...buys a LOT of diesel, LOL.

Lots of other things to consider, but this is the one that attracted me to diesel the most. Longevity. Sure, nearly constant "something" needing done, but it's getting less and less expensive. Figure about $2k every 200k miles, with a $5k bump for a HD transmission upgrade ONCE for lifetime, depending on your truck.

Of course, you have to be okay with driving an older truck. Some people like to drive a new one every couple of years, though. To each his own :C

[valhalla360]

dapperdan wrote:


The reason I say this is IF gasoline engines were superior to diesel why is it ALL the major truck manufactures are and have equipped their trucks with diesel motors for the last 50 years? You can easily get a million miles out of a diesel if maintained properly. Then there's the torque factor.

Dan

It's about fuel costs.
- Your average RV might do 2000 miles per year at 10MPG, so about 200gal or about $500/yr. If you cut fuel costs by 20%, that's a whopping $100/yr on a $10,000 engine upgrade.
- Commercial trucks frequently do 2000 miles per week at 6MPG towing much heavier loads, so about $675/wk. A 10% cost per mile fuel savings will result in around $3500/yr in fuel savings and they can easily justify the additional up front cost of a diesel. Go back 15-20yrs and the fuel savings was closer to 30-40% because it was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG.

This is born out as you are seeing Natural Gas powered trucks because if you have easy access to it, it's cheap.

The durability of commercial diesel engines is because it's common for a big commercial truck to put in 500k+ miles. If you don't build an engine that can do that, the competition will beat you. By comparison retail vehicles are usually worn out by the time they hit 200-250k miles (30-40yrs ago it was 100-150k miles) so there is no point in building an engine that does a million miles. It just adds cost without any benefit to the buyer.

If there was demand for a "million mile" gas engine, it's not technologically hard to do but they don't do it because there isn't a demand.

[valhalla360]

Jack Spratt wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Define "Better" and tell us details about the 5th wheel.

With modern engines, the gas engines are good for 200-250k miles with minimal work and diesels are drastically more complicated with computer systems and electronic controls that are prone to failures.

So modern technology makes the gas engines better
But diesels less reliable?

In some respects yes, though most of it is the gas engines got drastically more reliable.

[valhalla360]

DWeikert wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer.

Hmmm... If one engine needs to operate around 5000 RPM to pull a load while the other can do it at 2500 RPM, which do you think last longer?

Our V10 is running around 2000-2200rpm. The old diesel was around 1800rpm.

If the truck falls apart before either engine dies...who cares?