Need Help Getting Class A Non-Commercial License

[RussOnTheRoad]

Class A Driver License License Pickel

I find myself in a rather unenviable position. I live in the SF Bay Area. I just ordered a 5th wheel from a dealer in Portland, OR where I will go to pick it up. Towing that fiver in CA requires a Class A non-commercial license because it has a GVWR over 15,000#. Getting the Class A license requires not only a written test but a driving test towing a fiver with a GVWR over 15,000#.

It's like a Catch 22: I need a fiver with a GVWR over 15,000# in order to take the road test but I need a license in order to tow one to the road test.

Really what is needed is for me to get a Class A learner's permit which I am working on. Once I have that I need somebody with a Class A license that has a truck and a fiver with a GVWR of over 15K lbs. who will teach me to tow it and go with me to the road test. Then I can go to Portland to get my 5th wheel. (I drove a 30' Class C, full-timing in it for 18 months and I have an F350 dually, so driving big things isn't completely foreign to me.)

It seems I either have to find some kind soul near me who will help me master the skills needed to pass the road test and allow me to take the driving test with his/her truck and 15K+ lb fifth wheel or take the risk of towing my RV unlawfully. I asked the mfr. to derate the fiver from 15,700# to 14,999# in order to fall under the 15,000# threshold that requires the class A license but they wouldn't do it. I am looking for trucking and RV driving schools that might be able to help out.

I am certainly open to suggestions, but meanwhile, is there anybody in the SF Bay area willing to take pity on a fellow RVer and both teach me to tow with his/her setup and accompany me to the driving test?

Thanks.

[RussOnTheRoad]

I'm the OP. My Catch 22 as originally explained, but ironically things may be OK, as is. Now catch this...

As a CA resident I need a non-commercial Class A license to tow my 5th wheel that has a GVWR of over 15,000#. Until I am so licensed I can get a CA learner's permit to tow it as long as I have a driver with me that is licensed to tow it. Turns out, my significant other has a driver license from another state that doesn't require any special license in order to tow my fiver, so, she's licensed to tow my fiver as well as acting as my shotgun when I tow it using my learner's permit! Huh? What? According to someone at the CA DMV with whom I spoke this plan would work.

It strikes me as bass-ackwards, cart-before-the-horse in typical government fashion. While, as a result of me passing the CA non-commerical written test for the learner's permit (which I have yet to do) I theoretically might be the more qualified to tow the fiver, my girlfriend who will not have taken that test will be overseeing me as I drive. Government... gotta love it. All this argues for a national driver license system, IMHO.

Meanwhile, as previously explained, although I live in CA I'll be picking up my new fiver in Oregon and also driving to Washington before returning to CA. It appears that neither Oregon or Washington have restrictions on me being able to tow my fiver with my Class C CADL. In other words, I don't need a CA Class A non-commercial to tow up there and as long as my girlfriend is with me and I have a CA learners permit I can drive down here. Once we return to CA she can also ride shotgun with me to the road test to finalize my Class A Non-Commercial... Phew...

[ford_truck_guy]

PA is the same, but I already have a CDL A with ( P-T-N-M )= Passenger-double/triple - tanker - motorcycle endorsements . .

[ependydad]

jarata1 wrote:
i wonder if other states are like that

Yep, Maryland is the same.

I can relate to the original poster as I dealt with this in Maryland. I hate to admit, but for 3 years- I just decided to feign ignorance of the law if I was ever stopped. It was just too difficult logistically to figure out.

[sayoung]

RussOnTheRoad wrote:

CumminsDriver wrote:
Russ,

It sounds as if you are buying an Arctic Fox 29-5T. I've been to the West Sacramento Commercial test facility 4 times. Once for my driving test, and 3 times as a Class A co-driver so that my friends could take their Non Comm A test. After you take and pass the written test, you can schedule an appointment to take the driving test. My last friend that took the driving test was able to get his driving test about 2 weeks after taking his written test. West Sacramento does give driving tests on Saturdays also if that helps with your scheduling.

The hardest part in my opinion is the pre-trip inspection that you do before any behind the wheel testing is done. I suggest you go on You Tube and look up Pre-Trip inspections. They are all for the Big Rigs but the concept is the same for our RV's. Watching the Truck Driving school drivers while I waited for my friends to do their tests, I noticed that many of them failed the pre-trip which stops the test for that day for them. Behind the wheel experience is critical for the driving test, and if you get your permit I suggest someone who has the proper license ride with you to give you that behind the wheel time you need.

You could also tow a 5th wheel that is under the 15k cutoff for GVWR, and tow it around for practice to get the behind the wheel experience and to get a feel for how 5vers tow and handle and back up.

I can go into detail if you'd like on what they do for the driving test. The whole test which includes checking all the lights, registration, insurance, pre-trip, skills test in the DMV facility, and the driving test takes a little over an hour. Your Class A co-driver will also have to show his/her license when you check in. It really isn't that bad to do, but California does make it difficult requiring the co-driver until you get the license.

Rich

Thanks Rich.

Yes, I've ordered a 29-5t.

I'm not so worried about the tests as I am about being able to find someone who owns a rig I can use and to accompany me.

I could, as you suggest, practice with a smaller rig but I don't know anybody at all with a truck and fiver. I would have to look around, which I may do.

I'll check out YouTube, for sure.

Meanwhile a couple things have occurred to me: first I may not have to worry about driving in Oregon (where I'll pick upmy fiver) and Washington (which is on our travel plans before returning to CA) because they may not have any special licensing requirements. I will have to check. Next, my better half has a driver license from a state that may not have a special licensing requirement and it just may be that with her as my copilot I'd be OK driving my fiver in CA with a learner's permit. I'm not sure I'll be able to get that question answered but I will call the CA DMV to ask.

Technically you will be driving out of state with NO license since your Ca license isn't an A.
When I took the A test here in Texas, no one asked how I got the RV to the test:W

[RussOnTheRoad]

CumminsDriver wrote:
Russ,

It sounds as if you are buying an Arctic Fox 29-5T. I've been to the West Sacramento Commercial test facility 4 times. Once for my driving test, and 3 times as a Class A co-driver so that my friends could take their Non Comm A test. After you take and pass the written test, you can schedule an appointment to take the driving test. My last friend that took the driving test was able to get his driving test about 2 weeks after taking his written test. West Sacramento does give driving tests on Saturdays also if that helps with your scheduling.

The hardest part in my opinion is the pre-trip inspection that you do before any behind the wheel testing is done. I suggest you go on You Tube and look up Pre-Trip inspections. They are all for the Big Rigs but the concept is the same for our RV's. Watching the Truck Driving school drivers while I waited for my friends to do their tests, I noticed that many of them failed the pre-trip which stops the test for that day for them. Behind the wheel experience is critical for the driving test, and if you get your permit I suggest someone who has the proper license ride with you to give you that behind the wheel time you need.

You could also tow a 5th wheel that is under the 15k cutoff for GVWR, and tow it around for practice to get the behind the wheel experience and to get a feel for how 5vers tow and handle and back up.

I can go into detail if you'd like on what they do for the driving test. The whole test which includes checking all the lights, registration, insurance, pre-trip, skills test in the DMV facility, and the driving test takes a little over an hour. Your Class A co-driver will also have to show his/her license when you check in. It really isn't that bad to do, but California does make it difficult requiring the co-driver until you get the license.

Rich

Thanks Rich.

Yes, I've ordered a 29-5t.

I'm not so worried about the tests as I am about being able to find someone who owns a rig I can use and to accompany me.

I could, as you suggest, practice with a smaller rig but I don't know anybody at all with a truck and fiver. I would have to look around, which I may do.

I'll check out YouTube, for sure.

Meanwhile a couple things have occurred to me: first I may not have to worry about driving in Oregon (where I'll pick upmy fiver) and Washington (which is on our travel plans before returning to CA) because they may not have any special licensing requirements. I will have to check. Next, my better half has a driver license from a state that may not have a special licensing requirement and it just may be that with her as my copilot I'd be OK driving my fiver in CA with a learner's permit. I'm not sure I'll be able to get that question answered but I will call the CA DMV to ask.

[Rich1961]

Russ,

It sounds as if you are buying an Arctic Fox 29-5T. I've been to the West Sacramento Commercial test facility 4 times. Once for my driving test, and 3 times as a Class A co-driver so that my friends could take their Non Comm A test. After you take and pass the written test, you can schedule an appointment to take the driving test. My last friend that took the driving test was able to get his driving test about 2 weeks after taking his written test. West Sacramento does give driving tests on Saturdays also if that helps with your scheduling.

The hardest part in my opinion is the pre-trip inspection that you do before any behind the wheel testing is done. I suggest you go on You Tube and look up Pre-Trip inspections. They are all for the Big Rigs but the concept is the same for our RV's. Watching the Truck Driving school drivers while I waited for my friends to do their tests, I noticed that many of them failed the pre-trip which stops the test for that day for them. Behind the wheel experience is critical for the driving test, and if you get your permit I suggest someone who has the proper license ride with you to give you that behind the wheel time you need.

You could also tow a 5th wheel that is under the 15k cutoff for GVWR, and tow it around for practice to get the behind the wheel experience and to get a feel for how 5vers tow and handle and back up.

I can go into detail if you'd like on what they do for the driving test. The whole test which includes checking all the lights, registration, insurance, pre-trip, skills test in the DMV facility, and the driving test takes a little over an hour. Your Class A co-driver will also have to show his/her license when you check in. It really isn't that bad to do, but California does make it difficult requiring the co-driver until you get the license.

Rich

[cmeade]

RussOnTheRoad wrote:

cmeade wrote:
I appreciate your trying to be legal in this. Have you considered taking your driving test at ca dmv in Crescent City or Eureka? Then you would need com A or noncom A to ride with you from dealer to dmv while you familiarize yourself and practice driving with learner permit from dealer to ca dmv. Send your driver home and your DW and you are free to travel from crescent city to wherever. Just a thought.

Yes, I actually had thought of that. One problem is that driving tests for the Class A Non-Commercial license are given at only about 30 DMV locations statewide. I'm uncertain whereall of them are but the most northerly may be Eureka.

Since our plans were to pick up the RV in Portland, drive to Seattle and take a meadering trip back to CA we would be driving unlicensed for quite some distance if we were to stick to those plans. Even if we went straight from Portland to CA we'd still be driving unlicensed which we really don't want to do.
Get a non com A to ride right seat from portland to nearest ca dmv would allow you to drive your new rig with your permit for practice for the driving test. BTW DMV offices in norcal are not as busy as the bay area. Our local dmv has times you can walk right up to the counter with no wait. I know Redding dmv does commercial drive testing and pretty sure yreka does them or used to 5 yrs ago.

I am also uncertain what it is like to schedule a drive test. It may be something you need to do weeks or months ahead of time and that may depend on where you go.

It seems like a lot to juggle: picking up the RV, getting it to a CA DMV test location at a certian date and time, lining up a licensed driver to ride shotgun... not that it isn't do-able and it needs to remain a consideration. I'd much prefer to get my Class A before setting sail if at all possible. I'm making the acquisition of a Class A, my Plan A. Suggestions such as yours are definitely on the Plan B list.

Thanks.

[RussOnTheRoad]

cmeade wrote:
I appreciate your trying to be legal in this. Have you considered taking your driving test at ca dmv in Crescent City or Eureka? Then you would need com A or noncom A to ride with you from dealer to dmv while you familiarize yourself and practice driving with learner permit from dealer to ca dmv. Send your driver home and your DW and you are free to travel from crescent city to wherever. Just a thought.

Yes, I actually had thought of that. One problem is that driving tests for the Class A Non-Commercial license are given at only about 30 DMV locations statewide. I'm uncertain whereall of them are but the most northerly may be Eureka.

Since our plans were to pick up the RV in Portland, drive to Seattle and take a meadering trip back to CA we would be driving unlicensed for quite some distance if we were to stick to those plans. Even if we went straight from Portland to CA we'd still be driving unlicensed which we really don't want to do.

I am also uncertain what it is like to schedule a drive test. It may be something you need to do weeks or months ahead of time and that may depend on where you go.

It seems like a lot to juggle: picking up the RV, getting it to a CA DMV test location at a certian date and time, lining up a licensed driver to ride shotgun... not that it isn't do-able and it needs to remain a consideration. I'd much prefer to get my Class A before setting sail if at all possible. I'm making the acquisition of a Class A, my Plan A. Suggestions such as yours are definitely on the Plan B list.

Thanks.

[cmeade]

I had another thought. If you are picking up 5ver in portland then an appointment at yreka dmv/chp office would be an easy trek south on I-5. Travel down US 101 to Eureka or Crescent City would be more time consuming and stressful for first timer. Hope this helps. (I am non com A licensed but am on dialysis for 7.5 hrs every nite at home. We load up dialysis stuff in our 39' fiver when we travel so I don't miss a treatment)

[cmeade]

I appreciate your trying to be legal in this. Have you considered taking your driving test at ca dmv in Crescent City or Eureka? Then you would need com A or noncom A to ride with you from dealer to dmv while you familiarize yourself and practice driving with learner permit from dealer to ca dmv. Send your driver home and your DW and you are free to travel from crescent city to wherever. Just a thought.

[RussOnTheRoad]

Dtank wrote:
BTW besides a good idea to make sure driver's on the road are competent - there *ARE* other states with the same req's - ex: TX.

OK, OP.... some constructive thoughts/suggestions for you.....

1. Get done -in CA- now. It's not that difficult to pass the test/s.
However, the DMV times & places to schedule *driving tests* are limited. Sign up now - whether you're ready or not.

I've been signed up to take the written test for the permit for at least two weeks now. My appointment isn't until August and I took the first one available! I may go in sooner without an appointment if it is allowed. I'm waiting for some forms in the mail that are not available for download.

Dtank wrote:
Obviously you will need something (and someone with you) to take the test.
Call an RV campground that has folks who move RVs from storage to campsites (several in the Pismo Beach area, etc.)

Not so easy around here. Campgrounds are few and far between but I will be checking with them, RV dealers, RV repair shops, storage yards and campgrounds.

Dtank wrote:
They all like to make a few bucks - no harm to ask.
They also may have a solution to your dilemma.

2. Check with the dealer (or dealers in the area) where you are purchasing the 5th. MOST 5ths come from Indiana, delivered by "hotshot" drivers to the dealer/s. Ask for names/numbers of who they know that delivers to them.
Those drivers usually return empty - and are willing to make another delivery (to/for you) for a price.

It would be $1500 to have the RV delivered and I'm trying to avoid that expense. I had planned to pick up the RV in Portland, drive to Seattle to visit family and take a leisurely trip returning to CA. I didn't do a great job of planning. That's whey I'm looking for help getting licensed--someone with a truck and RV.

Dtank wrote:
3. Driving school/s - don't bother looking for an RV driving school,
call around to truck driver schools. Ask questions, "network" - for solutions - same as #2.....an employee may do stuff like that "on the side".

Will do.

Dtank wrote:
Lastly, 100% disagree -:(- with the (CA) poster who says "just do it"...

Couldn't agree more.

Dtank wrote:
...The CHP *does* regularly check for proper driver's licenses - especially in areas frequented by folks with toy haulers, race car haulers ("sportsmen" classes), private horse haulers, etc.
Any of the sand buggy areas (dunes - like Glamis) are regularly targeted, race track (NHRA) events, etc.

There isn't an LEO alive who can't come up with a legit "probable cause" to check "something" - anytime!

Sometimes the CHP will do "blanket enforcement" of areas with numerous recent accidents, etc. (Areas on I-5 near Sacto and I-5 near San Clemente come to mind)

If stopped, besides a "greetings", depending on the guy behind the badge, you may be allowed to go (only) to the next off-ramp, un-hitch, and ????
Then there's the liability issue..:R

Your dice to roll on "just do it" - remember "Murphy's Law"..:S

Suggest re-posting on/to the *Toy Hauler* Forum, as all of 'em who are in CA should have non-commercial Class A's - and might have some good suggestions.

Hope you find "the way".

Wise words, all. Thanks.

[RussOnTheRoad]

MarkTwain wrote:
Hire a transporter (people who transport new trailers from the MFG. to dealers) to pick up and deliver your RV to you.

Ask the dealer if he is willing to transport your RV to you.

Guarantee RV Center in Junction City Oregon was willing to transport my trade in trailer from the Oregon border to Junction City.

That remains a viable option, of course, and I thank you for pointing it out.

It would cost about $1500 to have the RV delivered (It costs about $2 a mile to move fifth wheels) and avoiding that expense is one reason I purchased the RV so close to the factory. I thought we would finish breaking in our new truck on the drive to Portland, pick up the RV, and proceed north to Seattle to visit family. I would still be faced with the task of finding someone with a Class A license to escort me to the DMV for the road test. Obviously, I wasn't thinking about all this when I orderd the RV.

[MarkTwain]

Hire a transporter (people who transport new trailers from the MFG. to dealers) to pick up and deliver your RV to you.

Ask the dealer if he is willing to transport your RV to you.

Guarantee RV Center in Junction City Oregon was willing to transport my trade in trailer from the Oregon border to Junction City.

[stickdog]

RussOnTheRoad wrote:

MarkTwain wrote:
Russontheroad- class A license

While I understand that may be the law to have a Class A non-comerical lic., in your situation my suggestion is not to sweat it and just drive up to Oregon and pick up your 5th. wheel, bring it home and deal with getting your class A lic. when you get back to the Bay area. As long as you are very careful, watchfull and keep your speed to the posted speed. I have my Valentine Radar Dector on any time I am driving. This dector will send you a signal any time there is a CHP/Bear within 1/2 mile of you, especially if you are going to be driving at night. The possibility of you getting pulled over and asked to show your Class A Lic. is about the same as winning the lottery jack pot. Just watch your speed and obey all traffic laws. Remember your speed limit is the same as big 18 wheeler trucks so be cautious about passing too many trucks in a row. Most of us RVers drive in the 60 to 65 MPH speed. In 20 years of driving 5th wheels I have never been pulled over and had to show my Dr. Lic. Too be safe I would drive 55 to 57 MPH all the home. Enjoy your new RV.

I would really prefer not to drive without the proper license. It may not be likely, but things could go horribly wrong and ruin somebody financially. If you aren't properly licensed there's a chance, however small or large it may be, your insurance won't cover you.

Separately, true or not, I've heard that if you are pulled over you may not be allowed to drive further without the proper license. What would I do then?

I have also heard that CA CHP keep a lookout for new vehicles entering from Oregon because people have been known to shop for autos and RVs there in an attempt to evade CA tax (note that I said evade as opposed to avoid--the former being unlawful). In other words, there may be an increased likelihood of being pulled over coming into CA from OR.

I drove for three years before I even knew I needed one.

[Dtank]

BTW besides a good idea to make sure driver's on the road are competent - there *ARE* other states with the same req's - ex: TX.

OK, OP.... some constructive thoughts/suggestions for you.....

1. Get done -in CA- now. It's not that difficult to pass the test/s.
However, the DMV times & places to schedule *driving tests* are limited. Sign up now - whether you're ready or not.

Obviously you will need something (and someone with you) to take the test.
Call an RV campground that has folks who move RVs from storage to campsites (several in the Pismo Beach area, etc.)

They all like to make a few bucks - no harm to ask.
They also may have a solution to your dilemma.

2. Check with the dealer (or dealers in the area) where you are purchasing the 5th. MOST 5ths come from Indiana, delivered by "hotshot" drivers to the dealer/s. Ask for names/numbers of who they know that delivers to them.
Those drivers usually return empty - and are willing to make another delivery (to/for you) for a price.

3. Driving school/s - don't bother looking for an RV driving school,
call around to truck driver schools. Ask questions, "network" - for solutions - same as #2.....an employee may do stuff like that "on the side".

Lastly, 100% disagree -:(- with the (CA) poster who says "just do it".
The CHP *does* regularly check for proper driver's licenses - especially in areas frequented by folks with toy haulers, race car haulers ("sportsmen" classes), private horse haulers, etc.
Any of the sand buggy areas (dunes - like Glamis) are regularly targeted, race track (NHRA) events, etc.

There isn't an LEO alive who can't come up with a legit "probable cause" to check "something" - anytime!

Sometimes the CHP will do "blanket enforcement" of areas with numerous recent accidents, etc. (Areas on I-5 near Sacto and I-5 near San Clemente come to mind)

If stopped, besides a "greetings", depending on the guy behind the badge, you may be allowed to go (only) to the next off-ramp, un-hitch, and ????
Then there's the liability issue..:R

Your dice to roll on "just do it" - remember "Murphy's Law"..:S

Suggest re-posting on/to the *Toy Hauler* Forum, as all of 'em who are in CA should have non-commercial Class A's - and might have some good suggestions.

Hope you find "the way".