Question about fiver hitch rails and mounting

[Nevadastars]

We are going to be moving out of a Class C and going to a 5th wheel. So, I just picked up an 07 Dodge Ram Cummins short bed 4x4. It had a fiver hitch but the previous original owner removed the rails. Consequently, the bed has eight holes in it from where it used to be.

I would like to replace the rails and hitch without having to drill more holes. Are the rails mounted the same in all Dodges of this year? Or do different brands of hitches mount the rails in different spots? I would like to replace it with what was there, but have no idea what brand it was. Thanks for any help.

[Nevadastars]

Durb wrote:

Nevadastars wrote:

Durb wrote:
The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

The rear brackets are there, but not in the front. In fact it looks like it never had brackets in front which I thought was odd. There are no marks on the frame where they would have been. I recently retired from working on cars and trucks as a body tech by trade for over 40 years, so installing it should be no problem once I have everything I need. Like I said, my biggest issue is I did not want to add more holes into the floor and will do my research to find exactly how it should be properly mounted.

I sure wouldn't tow a 5er with the front bed rail bolted only to the bed. Possibly the seller removed the rails for liability reasons. I have an 04 Dodge with a long bed so comparisons might be weak. There is a hat section bed support centered under the correctly positioned front rail. The forward and rear bolts are on either side of this support. The rear bolts are secured through the Curt frame bracket. The other bolts including two in the center of the rail have heavy square washers that overlap the hat section flange. The Curt instructions were very exacting about were to position the rails so that your kingpin will ride over the axle. Maybe you can download an installation PDF.

I agree and would never run it bolted strictly to the sheet metal. Not sure what the original owner had going on there. My guess is what ever was supporting the front came off easily when they unbolted it, but the rear brackets were more difficult to remove since they are bolted directly to the frame. I will check for the Curt PDF file. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Durb]

Nevadastars wrote:

Durb wrote:
The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

The rear brackets are there, but not in the front. In fact it looks like it never had brackets in front which I thought was odd. There are no marks on the frame where they would have been. I recently retired from working on cars and trucks as a body tech by trade for over 40 years, so installing it should be no problem once I have everything I need. Like I said, my biggest issue is I did not want to add more holes into the floor and will do my research to find exactly how it should be properly mounted.

I sure wouldn't tow a 5er with the front bed rail bolted only to the bed. Possibly the seller removed the rails for liability reasons. I have an 04 Dodge with a long bed so comparisons might be weak. There is a hat section bed support centered under the correctly positioned front rail. The forward and rear bolts are on either side of this support. The rear bolts are secured through the Curt frame bracket. The other bolts including two in the center of the rail have heavy square washers that overlap the hat section flange. The Curt instructions were very exacting about were to position the rails so that your kingpin will ride over the axle. Maybe you can download an installation PDF.

[ralphnjoann]

Nevadastars wrote:

Durb wrote:
The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

The rear brackets are there, but not in the front. In fact it looks like it never had brackets in front which I thought was odd. There are no marks on the frame where they would have been. I recently retired from working on cars and trucks as a body tech by trade for over 40 years, so installing it should be no problem once I have everything I need. Like I said, my biggest issue is I did not want to add more holes into the floor and will do my research to find exactly how it should be properly mounted.

A suggestion: Since the mount for the back rail is already there, attach your rear rail. Put the hitch in it and slide the front rail under the hitch positioning it so that it is attached. This tells you where the front rail needs to be and where the hitch will be located. You can go from there for any adjustments that need to be made.

Here is a link to an installation manual I used to install a hitch several years ago. It's not specific to your application, but much of the information is standard for any hitch install:

Manual

Note: If you need installation bolts, Tractor Supply, Big R, and Ace Hardware will have them. Just be sure to get Grade 8 or above.

[cummins2014]

Nevadastars wrote:

Durb wrote:
The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

The rear brackets are there, but not in the front. In fact it looks like it never had brackets in front which I thought was odd. There are no marks on the frame where they would have been. I recently retired from working on cars and trucks as a body tech by trade for over 40 years, so installing it should be no problem once I have everything I need. Like I said, my biggest issue is I did not want to add more holes into the floor and will do my research to find exactly how it should be properly mounted.

Here is a measurement you can check from the eight holes you have in the bed. This spacing is used on MOST conventional hitches that use in the bed bed rails , and that is 22". So from front to back on either side from the center of the forward holes to the center of the two rear holes should be 22" . Find the center between these two sets of holes either side, and they should be the 22". Hope that makes sense.

[Nevadastars]

Durb wrote:
The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

The rear brackets are there, but not in the front. In fact it looks like it never had brackets in front which I thought was odd. There are no marks on the frame where they would have been. I recently retired from working on cars and trucks as a body tech by trade for over 40 years, so installing it should be no problem once I have everything I need. Like I said, my biggest issue is I did not want to add more holes into the floor and will do my research to find exactly how it should be properly mounted.

[Durb]

The rails are the least of your concern. Check below the bed and see if your frame brackets are there. If the seller took those then you have an increased expense and installation costs. Curt rails do not come with fastening bolts, they come with the frame brackets. My bolts were carriage style bolts (smooth round head). The ones you buy from a hardware store are soft and may not be suitable for the rail application. I would check with Curt customer service to see if they use special fasteners. When I bought my Curt frame brackets they did not specify that they work only with Curt rails (as I remember).

[Nevadastars]

ralphnjoann wrote:

Nevadastars wrote:

Greene728 wrote:
I'd be willing to bet they were either Reese or Curt rails as they are far and away the most popular. As long as you get either for that year model truck using the same holes should be no issue.

Obviously I have no clue about these hitches. My concern is the forward/aft distance of the rails. Do all brands of hitches mount to the rails the same distance apart? Hopefully this makes sense.

I can't speak to all brands of hitches, but I've read numerous times on these forums that they are all the same and I've never seen an exception. In my own case, I bought a truck that had been used for fifth wheel towing and the previous owner removed the rails before he sold it. I installed rails using his existing holes and my hitch fit perfectly. Several years later I replaced it with another brand and it was an exact fit.

Great! That is what I was hoping to hear.

[ralphnjoann]

Nevadastars wrote:

Greene728 wrote:
I'd be willing to bet they were either Reese or Curt rails as they are far and away the most popular. As long as you get either for that year model truck using the same holes should be no issue.

Obviously I have no clue about these hitches. My concern is the forward/aft distance of the rails. Do all brands of hitches mount to the rails the same distance apart? Hopefully this makes sense.

I can't speak to all brands of hitches, but I've read numerous times on these forums that they are all the same and I've never seen an exception. In my own case, I bought a truck that had been used for fifth wheel towing and the previous owner removed the rails before he sold it. I installed rails using his existing holes and my hitch fit perfectly. Several years later I replaced it with another brand and it was an exact fit.

[Nevadastars]

Greene728 wrote:
I'd be willing to bet they were either Reese or Curt rails as they are far and away the most popular. As long as you get either for that year model truck using the same holes should be no issue.

Obviously I have no clue about these hitches. My concern is the forward/aft distance of the rails. Do all brands of hitches mount to the rails the same distance apart? Hopefully this makes sense.

[Nevadastars]

Artum Snowbird wrote:
You didn't say what size Ram it was, and perhaps that might lead one to conclusions of a light duty slider, or a heavy duty slider. I expect most will match the truck, and not the rails particularly.

It is a 2500 SRW 4x4 short bed. We don't plan on going with a big trailer, probably in the 26-28ft range minus the tongue.

[Artum_Snowbird]

You didn't say what size Ram it was, and perhaps that might lead one to conclusions of a light duty slider, or a heavy duty slider. I expect most will match the truck, and not the rails particularly.

[Greene728]

I'd be willing to bet they were either Reese or Curt rails as they are far and away the most popular. As long as you get either for that year model truck using the same holes should be no issue.

[garyp4951]

All rails have multiple mounting holes, and would surely line up with your old holes. Be sure to get the hardware, and spacers that go between the bed and frame.