First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[Mr_Mark1]

Gaylene and Rick... I'll post pics just as soon as I get the coach. I'll pick it up at the factory in Oregon first week of April. I just heard this morning from the salesman that it will come off the assembly line on March 15th. I'm sure that date can change somewhat but I can't pick it up until early April......so, I guess anticipation is part of the fun!

Happy Motorhoming... Mark

[Gaylene___Rick]

Congratulations Mark! She sounds like a real beauty with all the bells and whistles!

We have a Honda Element right now, but we are planning on purchasing a Honda CR V. We did look at the Jeeps.. we also want 4wd so we can go off roading and exploring, but the Honda had the better gas mileage. Better gas mileage raises our overall fuel consumption.

Post some pics of your new baby for us!

[Mr_Mark1]

Well folks, I made the plunge. I ordered a 2008 Monaco Dynasty 42ft, four slide unit. It is at the factory right now and will roll of the assembly line early March. It will have the new "clean" diesel engine with 425hp.

I ordered it with full tile (living/kitchen), leather seating which includes leather sofa and two leather euro recliners with ottomans, legless dinette, electric privacy drape, CB, See-vision-system (can monitor the exterior through the outside cameras from the bedroom monitor), residential fridge w/solar, king bed, stacked W/D, Aqua hot system, Sirius radio/multiple CD, power reels, auto awnings, exterior 32" TV, 32" HD TV above windshield, 26" TV in the bedroom.

Also, central vac, in motion Digital Satellite system, RV sanicom, security safe and dishwasher. Air level was standard.

I had Monaco remove the propane tank as it just supplied the cook top. I had an electric cook top put in. I don't cook much so the convection/microwave will be just fine.

My next purchase is for a tow vehicle. Leaning towards the Jeep Liberty but also looked at the Honda CRV. Need to check out the Subaru. I want four wheel drive in case I'm in the mountains.

Mr.Mark

[Gaylene___Rick]

Wogburn. I have a 40' Alfa Seeya. The slide out is not the full length of the unit but it is the full length of the livingroom and dining/kitchen area, as well as one about 8' long in the bedroom (the clothes closet). We have had NO problems with the arrangement. I'd never have an rv without a slide, now that I've had em. This was the first company, I believe, to come out with the 42" deep and 6'6" high (estimate- I never measured it) slideout. Initially they had problems with the slideout motors not being strong enough.. but once that was upgraded, there havent been any problems for anyone that I am aware of.

With the slide out, the unit lacks being 12' wide by only a couple inches. If you are going to live in a unit, the height and width mean everything! I also like the units with 4 slides.. like the Tiffin Phaeton.

Goodluck. You have plenty of time to think this through thoroughly, research the various brands and floorplans as well as the company's customer support system.. which is one of the most important things to consider, in my opinion. Have fun! This is going to be an adventure!

[swissdog1957]

Just wanted to throw my hat into the ring. My wife and I have just started thinking about going mobile again. We had a Coachmen 30ft TT for a couple of years then decided to homestead with a Dutch Park park model. We have 2-3 years to go yet before we buy a MH (son is a second semester sophomore in college) and this site, particularly this thread is turning out to be a gold mine of information. We plan on hitting the local shows, do a few rental trips during the next few summers, maybe rent one for our annual May trip to Disneyworld. Right now we are open in terms of size, powertrain, etc, although since we are both a decade or so at least from retirement, full timing is not a consideration for the foreseeable future. There's quite a lot to consider but fortunately the time constraint imposed by college tuition should prevent any impulse buying mistakes :). So I'll keep reading through the many conversations, through out a question or two as they come to mind and hope to see some of you friendly folks down the road. Oh and by the way, we have our park model on a site at Pleasant Acres Campground in Wantage Twnship, New Jersey. If anyone gets up that way drop me a line....

[wogburn]

My wife and I are about to be first time buyers of motor home. We have owned a 38 ft. fifth wheel for about 3 years and are preparing to be full-timers. We plan to tow her 2007 Pontiac G6 behind whatever we buy in an enclosed trailer or on a dolly, not four wheels down. We are trying to decide between motor homes with the new full wall slide out and those with more slide outs. I am concerned about the structural integrity of the full wall slide out and that of the coach with such a big hole cut out of its side. Does anyone have any experience with a coach with one of these? Is it good? How long have you had it and how far have you traveled in it? How many nights has it been out? Does the coach flex any more than other coaches either parked or moving? I love the room it offers, but don't want to buy a major problem. We plan to keep what we buy for a long time.

[cafe11]

Very informative. We are doing our walk through tomorrow. Thanks!

[Horizon]

Johnny T, thanks for such a comprehensive and well written posting! I am new to this forum as well as a new owner of a MH and appreciate all the info. I have to admit to a little different approach in getting into the motor home as opposed to my older TT.

While hunting in Alabama, I went to an RV dealer in search of a dump valve for my TT and ended up with a second hand DP. Knowing virtually nothing about motor homes, I asked the Lord to guide me in the purchase and I have to say that I am very pleased with it. I am also thankful that He has led me to this forum so I can now learn how to use the thing! Praise God and Merry Christmas!

[vettepilot]

Mr.Mark wrote:
Vette, tell us about your "new-to-you" Fleetwood. How many slides does it have? How many miles?

I know that you and your wife will have a wonderful time traveling!

Mr.Mark

Hello Mr Mark,
We have been traveling for several years now, in fact we became diamond members of the Hilton/Hampton Inn group last year, we usually take a trip every month lasting from two weeks to as long as 6 weeks.
But this is a whole new ballgame for us in respect to the RV. This is our first RV, and from what we experienced on our first trip, I think this Expedition will work quite well for us for many years.

The Fleetwood Expedition is a 2005, 34h floor plan. The 34h has three slides, the living room wall, the whole galley and dinette area, and the bedroom slide. The engine is a C7 caterpillar turbocharged intercooled diesel that develops 860ft lbs TQ at 1400 RPM, and 300 HP about 2400. When we first looked at it the odometer had about 8980 miles, by the time I completed the test drive, it had turned over 9000. We are actually the third owners, the first owner had it for only 1500 miles, the second owners put the remaining mileage on during the 2006 summer.
The color scheme is the South Seas with the Fairfield Maple cabinets.
It came with the manual Satellite DirectTV dish, and a Kingdome 9702 automatic stationary system installed.
A panasonic 6 disc cd/dvd surround sound system, 6 disc cd/fm/am/Sirius sat radio, a 27" color tv up front and a 20" color tv in the bedroom. Also in the bedroom is the combo washer/dryer in a closet under the TV area.
It has a nice vanity sink, a full size glassed in shower in the necessary room, along with the basic required flushable equipment.
Norcold 4 door refridgerator/freezer with icemaker, two zone heat pumps and 2 zone 25,000 btu propane furnaces all commanded from one central thermostat control.
The chassis is the freightliner XC chassis.

Well, that's about the description, from what I could find on the 2005 Expedition, most everything comes as standard equipment, with a few things that were optional.
We just completed our first trip in it, we drove from Enterprise, Al to West Greenwich, RI for Thanksgiving. We surprised my wife's family by bringing our own bedroom. We got to experience just about everything on the first trip, day/night/rain/then snow/then ice pellets/very high cross winds,the hills of West Virginia, construction barriers that give nearly a half inch of clearance on either side,the traffic through White Plains, the Tappen Zee Bridge, toll booths, and of course the really pleasant drivers in the I-95 corridor through CT. Did we miss anything that we should go back for?
Oh, did I mention overnight subfreezing temps in West Va and PA. that froze the fresh water standpipes in a Flying J, so we killed 45 minutes trying to top off our fresh water tank. I can report that our furnace(s) worked so well we had to turn them way down for the night.
Well, I think that's about it for this trip report, I hope I didn't bore those who found it.

[cassiecka]

What an awesome post! That advice is priceless! Thanks so much, you just made my world easier!

[Mr_Mark1]

Vette, tell us about your "new-to-you" Fleetwood. How many slides does it have? How many miles?

I know that you and your wife will have a wonderful time traveling!

Mr.Mark

[vettepilot]

Dan,
Thanks for the tip. We are currently,(seriously) thinking about a trailer. that way we would have the option of bringing one of our three vehicles, 2005 T&C, 2002 Corvette, or the 2000 Chevy S-10 pickup, depending on where we will be traveling, and to what events.
Our 2005 Expedition has a towing cap of 10,000 lbs, so with the trailer and one of those vehicles we should be well under that and the max 1000lb tongue weight.

Stan

[D_R_Bain]

vettepilot wrote:
What is a good tow method for a vehicle such as the T&C mini van, dolly or trailer?

Stan, One of the best ways to find out how to tow older vehicles is to look up old issues of Motorhome magazine either online or at your local library. and consult their Dingy(toad) Towing guide. On line they go back to 2002. This may answer all of your questions.

Go to: http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/


I hope this helps.

D.R.Bain

2007 Damon Daybreak

[Mr_Mark1]

Vettepilot.. In the past, I rented a 2005 Fleetwood Expedition (38ft. 3 slides) and a 2006 Fleetwood Expedition (38ft, 4 slides) that both had the 300 Cat diesel. My 2005 trip covered about 2,000 miles and I average about 8.5 mpg's. This year on my 2006 trip I drove about 1,400 miles and got exactly the same mileage as before, 8.5 mpg.

I did not pull a dingy and drove somewhat under the speed limit. If it was 70 (in California) I drove about 65, if was 65, I drove about 60.... I tried not to go under 55 as I didn't want to be a hindrance to the other vehicles around me.

I didn't have the need to carry a lot of extra water so I released it because, I think, I had a 100 fresh water tank. They say water weighs about 7 lbs per gallon so that's a lot of extra weight. I kept about 25 gallons in the tank just in case I needed water at rest stops.

One odd thing about the Fleetwoods... on both the windshield wipers didn't work. I pulled, twisted, pushed that darn knob and couldn't get the wipers to come on. Thank goodness the "squirter" function worked so with one push of the washer button, I got a couple of swipes with the wipers. Also, I didn't run into much rain.....so, a little spray from other cars were easily taken care of with the washer button.

Happy motorhoming! Keep us updated on your trips and experiences!

Mr.Mark

[JE_M]

We're "fivers" now, looking to upgrade to a DP. I am not having any luck finding the links to the three articles that cwdavis posted about used Class A pricing. Specifically: Post II Evaluating Used Class A Motorcoaches- NADA Expected Margins; Post III NADA Low Retail vs Wholesale Prices and Post IV: PPL Sales and Margin Analysis.

Thanks

J&B

Sunnybrook Titan 31BWFS
Sierra 2500HD, Duramax, Allison