RV Upgrades for long term boondocking.

[seanreit]

I'm new to the forum, and have found a lot of help with google searches that land me on this site a lot, so thought I'd give back a little on what I've done with the information I have gathered.

I bought a class C in December specifically because it had a garage type toy hauler that I thought I would be able to put a smart car in and tour the country. I had originally looked into a Four Winds Thor in Austin, TX and he had given me the dimensions of the garage and a smart car would fit. Though it had a factory roll up door in the back, and I'd have to use portable ramps. Not my first choice.

So I looked up a thor on ebay, and found one in NJ, and it had a winch ramp ***Link Removed***

Once I negotiated the deal over the phone, next step was to go buy a smart car, and ask the wife at 7am on a Sunday if she'd be willing to drive up to NJ with me to pick up an RV (she said "sure" lol)

So I go by a smart car off craigslist thinking that pulling up in an RV, lowering that ramp, and driving a white convertible smart car off the back of that thing would make everyone in an RV jealous that would ever see me do that!

So we drive up to NJ from Austin in one of our prius, get there, make the deal for the RV, and spend the night having fun in NYC before heading back to TX. Fun night for sure!

Next day we head back to TX, get here, and no one can tell me the capacity of the ramp! Someone suggests 1600 lbs, so close enough. I line up the smart car, jam it up there to the garage and we are 3" too long! Thor's apparently come in different sized garages (bummer!!!)


So I buy a scooter, throw it in the back, and want to go boondock for more than a week. We are going to need water, power, food, propane, etc for a long time. So let's do some upgrades.

First of all, the water tank on board is 20 gallons. That's about enough to flush the toilet 10 times, much less take a hot shower once a day for 3 weeks.

So first thing I do is throw out the "lounge chair" that's across from the dinette, buy another dinette off craigs locally and install that.

Plus this gives me some more storage. So I put another 20 gallons water tank in there and three more batteries.

Now to tie the new tank to the existing, I ran a half inch poly water line from the original tank's vent line.

Now when you fill the original tank, the overflow goes into the secondary tank. This means the original fill on the orig tank must now be pressurized, so you have to fill it slowly. But it does push air then water into the second tank. And then there is a vent to atmosphere on that side of the coach. ***Link Removed***

Of course, you then cap the water fill line, because a vacuum will now be made by the water pump pulling water from orig tank, which then pulls water from the second tank into the first.

So that's 40 gallons, still not enough.

What next? 55 gallon drum, of course!



So you fill the 55 gallon drum with water, run a solar panel to the battery for the pump at the back, and then of course install a pump. Then run a hose up to your city water connection, and turn off the inside pump. Now you will drain the 55 gallon first! Works perfect, and because it's a water pressured hose, you can even wash your RV!

So that's 95 gallons plus the 6 in your hot water heater (propane one). Then I installed after the propane water heater an electric 4 gallon water heater, but how you going to power that? That took some figuring.

So I bought a 3000 watt inverter, and hooked up some solar panels.





So now you can plug the RV into itself!

***Link Removed***

I have to go have lunch with my wife, will post more later!

[seanreit]

PghBob wrote:
Hi. You noted your gross weight is 14000 pounds with nearly full water and fuel. That means if your chassis is a newer Ford E450, you can only add another 500 pounds of weight to be within the chassis limit. So, does that 14000 include your weight as the driver? How about any passengers, clothes, food, plus the toys you are adding. Distribution of your weight is also important. Have you exceeded any axle weight limits? Best wishes for your very interesting and innovative plan.

I'm not at the RV Right now, but was able to take a screen shot of a video of my dryer working that shows my hanging storage



I have 5 of those 12" wide hanging, and they are loaded with clothing, tools, spare coffee.

In the pantry I have about 100Lbs of food and about (60) 4 ounce emergency aluminum bags full of water.

There is also a 150 CC Scooter in the back, car jacks, an air compressor, shop vac, additional rear TV, etc.

We had 360 lbs worth of two adults in the coach at the A-1 Freeman weigh station the other day.

When the smart car did not fit right, I gave myself the liberty to load 1,800 lbs worth of anything I want in the back thinking I was going to be hauling this car everywhere anyway.

The weigh station reported 14,052 somewhere about that.

IMO, the two hundred lbs of fuel I plan to load are just about all I would need to add at this point. Sure, future solar panels are an option, and so are more batteries, but at least for now I feel safe in the coach.

I'm not a particularly fast driver, and at this point in my life I'm never in a hurry to get anywhere. Driving 65 is comfortable and safe to me, and I have driven it about 200 miles in it's current configuration and it has been great so far.

In regards to distribution, I understand the importance, and my best guess is that I am right on, or slightly tail heavy. How much? I don't have enough experience to know. Again, at least in my mind, my full intention was to be hauling the smart car around. And I think I'm less than the 1,800 lbs of the car, and I have added several hundred lbs forward of the CG in batteries, solar panels and humans and 20 gallons of extra water.

You are right, the idea was to be innovative and take the best ideas out there and use the ones that made the most sense given a budget, time, and availability of materials. I'm the kind of guy that has to buy 5 types of a product to figure out which one makes the most sense. I also drill 5 holes before I figure out which one was supposed to be there.

That said, I'm overall very happy with what has come from the last month putting all this together. I have tested every system individually, and am comfortable with all the options I have available to me. The first trip will start with Austin to NOLA in a few weeks, then on to FL. 🙂 WEEEEEEEE.

[PghBob]

Hi. You noted your gross weight is 14000 pounds with nearly full water and fuel. That means if your chassis is a newer Ford E450, you can only add another 500 pounds of weight to be within the chassis limit. So, does that 14000 include your weight as the driver? How about any passengers, clothes, food, plus the toys you are adding. Distribution of your weight is also important. Have you exceeded any axle weight limits? Best wishes for your very interesting and innovative plan.

[carringb]

pnichols wrote:
Some time ago a Class C owner posted about an additional 100 (or 150?) gallons of water that they carried in tanks up underneath their rig. I believe that these were tanks mounted high up underneath between the drive shaft and the two side frame members.

Good point. Also, there's plenty of space for a 2nd OEM E-series mid-ship tank up in there, and using and F-series valve and switch, switch between the two.

[pnichols]

Some time ago a Class C owner posted about an additional 100 (or 150?) gallons of water that they carried in tanks up underneath their rig. I believe that these were tanks mounted high up underneath between the drive shaft and the two side frame members.

I've looked under my Class C, and indeed there is a lot of unused space up in between the frame members. Of course any water carried there would be exposed to freezing temperatures unless you had electric tank heater pads installed onto each tank.

Where our horizontal propane tank is carried there is more room for at least an additional 5 gallons of propane.

I'm with you on not wanting to tow anything. Carrying everything within and on the main vehicle is more compact, reliable, and flexible for off pavement travel to/from boondocking locations. I see very few photos of expedition vehicles pulling a trailer of any type ... they may have stuff on the roof or hanging off the front, back, or sides ... but no towing.

[seanreit]

My all up gross weight (I have given up on the smart car because it did not fit with the ramp in the up position) is 14,000 lbs nearly full of water and fuel. Had to have it certified just yesterday morning in order to get the title work complete. I'm carrying north of 800 lbs in liquids. Another 500 or six hundred in batteries and solar.

I'm thinking along the lines of a small car hauler, or alternatively rotating hitch jack rollers.

I spent $150 on these awesome quick remove high quality caster type wheels, and put leveling jacks on the hitch mount, to take it off the hitch, but it was problematic so I removed it. It just wasn't perfect.

Then I thought a car jack on wheels, but again, really not smooth. As much as I'd love to avoid a trailer, it sure opens up some great options, gets the prius off a tow dolly, and could load (2) 55 gallon drums of water if I wanted.

[carringb]

Have you weighed the coach with the Smart Car loaded up? The FunMover had a relatively short wheelbase, so I suspect you'll have plenty of front axle capacity left when loaded up.

I carry motorcycles up front, and don't have cooling problems with those. I do agree that fuel up front is no buenno:)

[seanreit]

carringb wrote:
Have you thought about moving the water/genny rack to a front hitch? It will probably improve handling, while eliminating the need to remove the rack to use the tail-gate ramp. You'd be at the limit of most off-the-shelf receivers, but modifying it to become a 3-point receiver will elevate those concerns and make it more stable.

Considered yes, but a couple issues negated it for me. 1) The weight, I would think you would also need to beef up the front springs to deal with it. But 2) Blocking of head lights, and blocking of cooling. And moreover, I don't think I want potentially gallons and gallons of gas in front of me. I'm actually thinking about just adding a small trailer behind me that I can unhitch and roll away. It's making more sense the more I think about it. I was just trying to avoid some negligible maintenance on it. The big hitch carrier I have was such a smooth option for this getup!

[carringb]

Have you thought about moving the water/genny rack to a front hitch? It will probably improve handling, while eliminating the need to remove the rack to use the tail-gate ramp. You'd be at the limit of most off-the-shelf receivers, but modifying it to become a 3-point receiver will elevate those concerns and make it more stable.

[Gjac]

Water,storage and battery power are the most important things I look for in a MH in that order for dry camping. I find the min FW that I need is 60 gals which lasts 7 days for 2 people and still be able to shower every day. I would like to have 100 gal tank in the next MH. 2 6 v GC batteries last us 7 days with 230 AH. Where I camp solar panels would not be useful and I am always looking for ways to use my genset so I don,t have to just exercise it once a month. Storage is important in order to take your stuff like mtn bikes, raft, fishing stuff etc. I would also include things like portable lights and propane heaters that don't use DC power. Propane lasts a long time and will not limt you. Water and disposing it will be your limiting factor depending on where you camp.

[seanreit]

gkainz wrote:
Wow! Way to jump in and really do some MODS! 🙂

First posters usually start off with "I bought the Camping World stovetop cover. Now what?" and takes them a camping season or 2 to start converting incandescent bulbs to LED.

Thank you. Nearly everyone has a budget of some kind, and I certainly do too. I'm really looking forward to doubling the solar system with another controller for the back half of the roof, not sure where I can hang another 5 batteries though. It's my understanding that when you get to a Kw of solar and a Ka of storage you are entering the realm of solar powered air conditioning.

I also want to get a car hauler so I can bring one of the Prius' and possibly mount an inverter in the prius off the traction battery and run the whole coach using the prius as a generator. I did that temporarily while I was starting working on the coach off the accessory battery in the prius, and it worked out quite well. The prius is really the most efficient generator I have ever worked with.

[gkainz]

Wow! Way to jump in and really do some MODS! 🙂

First posters usually start off with "I bought the Camping World stovetop cover. Now what?" and takes them a camping season or 2 to start converting incandescent bulbs to LED.

[pnichols]

We boondock drycamp if needed when rock hounding, using our 24 foot E450 V10 Itasca Class C. With this small Class C, the E450 chassis gives us around 2000 lbs. of extra weight carrying ability above what would be "normal" trip loading, so we can load every nook and cranny up with whatever extra we want without any overweight concerns. We start each trip with every tank full that should be full and every tank empty that should be empty.

I don't carry anything off the rear bumper so as to not unload the front suspension and hence adversely affect the highway handling. Our built-in fresh water capacity is 45 gallons and we don't drink out of the tank, so we carry along up to another 6 gallons of drinking water. Our main fuel tank is 55 gallons, which we keep near the top when starting out off the pavement so that the built-in generator will have plenty of run-time off this tank if needed. We also carry along a portable generator with it's tank full, along with another 2 1/2 gallons for it in a steel safety container carried in one of the exterior storage cabinets. Our main propane tank is 18 gallons ( 60+ useable pounds of propane), but we bring along another 2 gallons of propane for the outside BBQ and firepit. We don't have any solar, but our 230 amp hour AGM battery bank can be charged 5 different ways with the equipment combinations we bring along for that purpose. We bring along a full spare and full tire changing capability, plus have equipment along to repair small puncture holes in any tire without removing it from the chassis. We also bring along a large assortment of tools, spare parts, and engine fluids. We try to start out every trip with at least a full week's supply of food on board, but could get by longer in a pinch. In addition to the built-in air conditioner and propane furnace, we bring along an electric heater and a high volume 12V fan with a 20 foot extension cord for outside use if needed. One of the two roof vents has a 12V 3-speed reversible fan in it. All roof vents have covers over them so we can ventilate the interior in pouring down rain. We carry a small pure sine wave inverter for specific power needs, but some of our equipment is powered directly from 12V receptacles. We bring along rolled up plastic insulation for every window in case we wind up camping in cold weather. All coach lighting is LED. Everything is carried inside the coach in storage cabinets and outside the coach in 7 exterior steel lined and carpeted cabinets. No equipment is strapped on the roof ladder in the rear, or carried on the roof in carriers. Our equipment includes 100 feet of freshwater filling hose, 80 feet of outside hookup cabling, 35 feet of accordion sewer drain hose, extra sewer valves, and various electrical hookup and water hookup adapters. Both of our walkie talkies ave electronic compasses and weather radios built into them. The dash radio also has full weather band capability, and can be remotely controlled from anywhere inside the coach. The outside radio has it's own roof antenna and remote control. The outside shower has a water pump switch on the wall right next to it.

We start out every trip this way, so as to be as much as possible ready for any thing at any time .... except for fishing gear. We don't bring this along unless we're sure we might be doing some fishing!

[seanreit]

mlts22 wrote:
What limits me on boondocking is waste water capacity (black/gray), propane, and fuel for electric, especially in the Texas summer.

I'm in Austin too. I solved the above problems by getting a 30 gallon barrel of gas for the generator, and a 30 gallon drum to pump the black tank to. And then adding two 20 lb propane bottles to my propane system.

Though I have not taken a trip yet (other than driving around town test fitting things, and driving back from NJ) I'm estimating that I can go at least 3 weeks without ever having to move under any weather conditions. IE, enough electricity, water, and heat. Put about $1,000 worth of various camping food in it, and carry about 20 gallons of drinking water separate from coach water. I'll post more pics tomorrow. I still have to install the additional 30 gallon drums.

My biggest problem right now is how to get the hitch I've created off the coach with the drum full of water, and wheel it out of the way for ramp access. The only idea I have so far is wheeled boat trailer front winding jack that rotates 90 degrees. Maybe putting four of them on the corners and lowering them, getting it off the hitch, and rolling it out of the way???

[seanreit]

Still not added is the 30 gallons of fuel barrel on the back, and a 30 gallon drum for extra black tank. My total certified weight right now is 14,056 lbs with full water, 25% black and grey each. The water from the 55 gallon drum is used first, and the fuel from the 30 gallon drum will be used first once I get it all plumbed the way I want it. Not shown (because I don't know how to load video here) is the washer and dryer for clothes that work off my solar system. Also, I have the 5,000 onan and the honda for backups. Installed the relay start capacitor the other day to get the AC to run off the Honda.

Also installed "Extend a stay" propane system. Have to 20lbs of propane on board plus the on board propane tank which I believe is 40lbs.

I'll have to take a pic of the new water heater, it's a 4 gallon point of use electric water heater, which my solar and inverter power no problem.

Almost everything I did I learned by looking up on this site using the search feature. I'll post more later.