3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[franlofter]

Thankyou for info, The Champion C46540 is a newer model and ok to get? they have it for $329 at my checker.

[Walrus127]

Well after 10 months of emails and changing parts, and filing a complaint with the State Attorney General's Office I may actually be close to ending my generator saga with ELIM. They called me today and said they were gong to give me a refund of my purchase price plus the shipping costs for sending back the generator. Now I have to figure out what I want to replace it with. Right now the Champion look's good but I am worried about buying another one on the Internet. By the way I now have almost enough spare parts to rebuild an ELIM 3000 in my shop!!!

[professor95]

franlofter wrote:
I have been reading this thread not all of it but have a Question, Witch one is best The Champion, Powerwise, ETC, I am considering the Champion C46540 are they all based a pretty much the same design??

They all appear to be good units. There are two genres available. One that is a close copy of the Yahama (Coleman) and another designed around a copy of the Honda GX200 6.5 HP engine. Not much has been posted here on the Yamaha clones.

There are major differences in the actual generator assembly between some brands. The ones with brushes seem to provide better voltage regulation than the brushless. Champion uses brushes, the JD built Powerwise does not. The major issue was if the generator was wired to provide full wattage from a single 120 volt outlet rather than 1/2 to each of two outlets. The newer Champion RV ready model and Powerwise meet this requirement. If you buy a Powerwise, be sure you are not getting an old stock model that splits the power at 120 volts. If it does not have a 120/240 volt switch it is most likely an New Old Stock model.

Another issue has been warranty claims and service/parts. Some of the lesser known models sold at places like Big Lots or from e-bay vendors may be just as good, but "after the sale" support is questionable, especially when you have to box up a 100# hunk and ship it back at your expense to get warranty service.

Hope this info helps and is not too general......

[Tonka_Truck]

My A/C ran like a champ and talk about a load, was 109' here in Phoenix! I have a 2003 23' travel trailer with one A/C unit.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
but it would not start the roof A/C

this same A/C unit ran with a coleman contactror 2500 in a test 2 yrs ago

and last year just fine with the generac RV TXP4500 that i just removed ( died )

so I reckon a hard start kit is the next thing to buy

Now that really surprises me. May I make a suggestion? Run a power cord directly to the AC plug (bypass the camper) just to make sure there are no parasitic loads on the generator.

You might also turn the AC fan on first, let it come up to speed and then hit the compressor start button. The locked rotor current and time frame on your AC would have to be really, really high for the Champion not to work. I know some of the older units, before scroll compressors were used, did have that problem.

But why am I telling you this? You have worked in this area for years. Still, sometimes two heads can be better than one in resolving a problem.

I cannot imagine a wiring defect in the generator that would not give you the full power of 29 amps at 120 volts.

[MrWizard]

your RV 30amp power cord is not that long

if your run 200ft of 12ga ext cord, you are still going to have a major power drop

that will make it hard on your A/C unit, everything else will be OK

I think 50 ft would be more than adaquete

put it 200 ft away and you won't know it's beening stolen untill the power goes off, by the time you run the 200 ft, you'll be chaseing THEIR truck on foot

[franlofter]

I have been reading this thread not all of it but have a Question, Witch one is best The Champion, Powerwise, ETC, I am considering the Champion C46540 are they all based a pretty much the same design?? And how far away from my TT can I put it? I will have a nice Campsite next week that has 200 ft of space behind me with no one near there, can I run a 200 ft of cord??

[MrWizard]

the new RV ready Champion is ensconsed in it's new home

the slide out bay/tray where the old RV genny resided

I'll take some pictures and post them

i'm going to slide it out to run, then slide it back inside, when not in use

i would like to modify the exhaust before winter time, then i can leave it running in the compartment (with the door open ) during the winter rainy season

it got a 9 hr workout today

5 hrs, change the oil, then run it another 4 hrs

it didn't even blink when i turned on the microwave

but it would not start the roof A/C

this same A/C unit ran with a coleman contactror 2500 in a test 2 yrs ago

and last year just fine with the generac RV TXP4500 that i just removed ( died )

so I reckon a hard start kit is the next thing to buy

I going to check the wiring ( of the genny ) tommorrow to make sure all 29 amps are availble at 120volts on the RV plug

before i spend money on the hard start

maybe i'll test it with my welder before i open up the front panel

[professor95]

Recent comments from MrWizard on warranty & exchange issues for two different brands of Chinese generators and Walrus127's ongoing and unfortunate saga with ELIM International to get his unit either repaired or replaced have generated questions and concerns about just how good is the warranty is on these products.

Finding the written warranty policy in the manual for my newest Chinese generator aquisition somewhat vague as to what my responsibility would be in a warranty situation and where I would take the unit should I need service prompted me to send an e-mail to the Senior Technician at the company selling the little yellow RV ready model.

Mr. Paul Cole promptly replied. I share his response with the hopes it will clear up some of the issues and questions that have recently come up on this newest addition to the continually growing crop of "3000 Watt Chinese Generators". Please be reminded, I personally do not and will not endorse or support one vendor or marque over another. When I get feedback like this, I only want to pass it along as "information" so all of us can make informed choices on our selection of products for our camping & RV needs.

"Our warranty network has about 3000 service centers. We contract through www.ordertree.com/dealerlocator.asp , with Dixie Sales. Out west we have established a few hundred locations just based on our customers needs as they arise. When we get a customer we deem needs service, we jump into action and contact reputable service centers and deal with them direct and with gentleman’s agreements. No long drawn out arrangements. We ship them parts without cost and they charge us on a flat rate schedule at their shop rate.

We take customer service seriously and have 24hr. Tech service contact and also 24hr. service center contact to us with skilled factory personnel available. We had a lot of owners during the hurricanes last year that appreciated our assistance during their immediate needs. A cell phone was all that could get in or out of many areas. We monitor cell phones in order to give our techs a flexible way of life after work (regular day).

Anyone needing a service center can take their unit along with their purchase receipt and get a diagnostic preview with a call from us to authorize it. We pay .5 hrs. for an electrical diagnostic and .25 hrs. for a vital diagnostic. (Air, Fuel, Spark and Fuel) We are very generous to most customers with a good straightforward need. We will authorize extended work hours or arrange a replacement if we feel the cost to repair is too much. We ship parts same day in almost all cases and will never let a service center go without the needed parts. Our higher volume repair centers love the lack of red tape to do our work and get paid afterward. This is important for factory and service center relationships. We DO not play Hardball with our lifeline to our customers. I take pride in a good, well oiled service relationship. We are always trying harder. I won’t settle for second rate service."

[Tonka_Truck]

We use to hang the muffler pipe with the straps that have a "U" bolt and rubber strap so it could move a little back and forth as the engine rocked.

[durasmack]

bobandcat,
that is what I am trying to do. I took the muffler off. I was wondering how you attached the black iron pipe to the muffler? how is it sealed? also, on the engine side, how did you get from the flange on the engine to the pipe? I am not trying to rigid mount the muffler so i should be able to run solid pipe on the exhaust.

-Trey

[professor95]

bobandcat wrote:
I read the Porfessor's comments about needed a flexible connection between the engine and the muffler. I will add the flex pipe just before the muffler. My muffler and exhaust pipe are rigidly mounted

Very Nice!

You have a piece of 3/4" Greenfield (BX or Flex)running to the 30 amp outlet. You may be able to make up the flexible connection using the same material, but 1" in diameter.

The 167 degree (actually 197 degree) danger point is based on NEC temperature ratings for the insulating material used on the generator wiring. Temps above that can cause the insulation to break down or become brittle and break off. The plastic wiring in the generators I have looked at is THHN (197 degree). I do not know what the insulating material is on the windings, but doubt that it will withstand much over 197 degrees without damage. 167 degrees is a good number to shoot for and play it safe.

I guess you know that you will need a transfer switch if you wire the generator into the fiver. When you get to that point let me know and I will tell you how to make a mechanical transfer switch for about $100 less than a store bought one. An automatic or magnetic transfer switch will cost you big $$$$, but are more convenient. Sometimes I run across relays on the surplus market that will handle the switching load you need. Maybe we can find one of those if you want automatic switch over.

Again, nice job!

[bobandcat]

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[professor95]

BobandCat wrote:
Can someone please explain how to post pictures?

Scroll back a few postings to the one I made on 6-5-06 at 9:58 a.m. EDST. I gave a link to a hosting service that is free and has worked well for me for over a year.

[MrWizard]

see this

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15775751.cfm

basicly you upload your pictures to a 'picture hosting site'

you copy the link ' that points to the picture'

you put that link in the message you are posting

when you are making/writing a post

you click on the tool bar above your text box , click on the image button ( inser image )

a small window with one line will open

the link for the picture goes in that line

that's it