3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Rocky7184]

professor95 wrote:

Rocky7184 wrote:
figured if other guys are using this adapter with the Elim3000 then it must be ok to use.I dunno what'ya think

If it is the "original" ELM3000 made by JiangDong (red), you are OK with this adapter. If it is a later model (blue) made by Lunatop, do not use this adapter.

Yep...it's the original red one.Thanks for the confirmation professor.

[marksman69]

professor95 wrote:

nsbat7 wrote:
I'm going to weld a copper cable

Just use a good grounding clamp. Technically, the NEC does not allow welding or soldering of grounding connections.

BTW - how do you weld copper? I have soldered and silver brazed, but welding of copper is a skill I have never mastered. 😉

I am a large electrical contractor and actually I have been using what we call "cad weld", but they are now manufactured by Erico. The system consists of a mold which is reusable and it clamps over the top of the ground rod and grounding wire. You buy a small container that contains gunpowder and metal mixed together (Erico). you pour this into the mold and light it with a striker. It flares up and after it coos you remove the mold. You have a welded connection to the ground rod. Meets NEC and is actually preferred to clamps by many engineers.

[turboflyer]

Hi All,
Been lurking here for a few months and would love to be able to print this entire thread. Its got a depth of great info on choosing and moding these Clone Gens. If anyone here knows if printing the whole thing is possible please share if you've figured it out.


I have a question for the Professor, I purchased an Elim 3000 and had to sell it to a buddy for power back up yesterday. Didnt get to use it much before letting it go. Now I'm faced with a new option ie Champion 46535 vs the Elim3000. I live in Canada so the RV ready 46540 is not available.

What are the pros/cons on the Champion vs the Elim? The 6.5HP clones are not too heavy, the Champ is rated peak 4 KW vs the Elim at 3.5 KW but both use the same gas engine.

Would I be able to pull 4KW from the Elim if the breaker was replaced? I'd like to get 30amps at 120VAC without too much rewiring etc. I see just below you warned about using the Orange 120v - 240v adaptor on the newer Elim/Launtops.

What do you reccomend?

Thanks in advance for any insight you'd like to share.

regards
Gary

[bassman1]

Mr Professor
Thanks for all your help you too Mr. wizzard
i have a elim3600ss am i ok with this adapter the orange one
here is a link
too my generator thanks

[nsbat7]

For the firs time I test my Coleman ProForce 3125. Here is the list of utensiles I connected to the generator for about an hour all of them at the same time.

- kitchen 2 door refrigirator
- garage refrigirator
- garage comercial fan
- garage boom box
- 32 in tv
- directv
- dvd player
- yamaha mini sound system with 200w subwoofer (played at hight volumen)
- 12 cup coffee pot
- laptop computer
- and all I have in the house are energy saver light bulbs so no question that I'm going to be able to run more than a few of those.

With all this load the voltmeter was @ 120. What does that means? I really don't know how the voltmeter works. Can somebody give me a 101 on this subject? Thanks.

Nestor

[professor95]

Rocky7184 wrote:
figured if other guys are using this adapter with the Elim3000 then it must be ok to use.I dunno what'ya think

If it is the "original" ELM3000 made by JiangDong (red), you are OK with this adapter. If it is a later model (blue) made by Lunatop, do not use this adapter.

[Rocky7184]

Horizon170 wrote:
Rocky, Here ya go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/30-AMP-RV-converter-adapter-for-Honda-Kipor-generator_W0QQitemZ270012091870QQihZ...



Just make sure both sides of the duplex are on the same winding.

Hey thanks Marvin for the link....thats just what i was look'in for.

Also,how would i make sure both sides are on the same winding ???

I figured if other guys are using this adapter with the Elim3000 then it must be ok to use.I dunno what'ya think

[nsbat7]

javascript wrote:

but I found a guy local to me selling for $750, used once... I am going to take a look at it tonight and then will report my results if I pick it up. It's not real cheap, but it's not real expensive either if it is quiet and can handle the load


Pep Boys Auto has an ALL POWER 2000W (quiet) digital generator on sale for $599. The link said $699 but is on sale @ $599.

http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/listing_detail.asp?ListingID=-2094668793&OfferID=&StoreID=2315145

Nestor

Sorry, I make that sugestion because I thought the Kipor was rated @ 2000W. By the way, good deal for $750.

Nestor

[MrWizard]

if you want the quietest generator there is and will NEVER do more than charge the batteries or watch TV, buy the honda 1000ui

but you can forget about using it at home in an emergency for anything more than lights and TV

it an't going to power the microwave or an electric heater or big blender, and will have a very hard time with just an average size fridge or even the coffee maker

[NHBlackLab]

Mr. Professor, what an excellent write up.

First off, I understand that money spent on a particular item and what the actual return value is, is extremely subjective. I can only relive real life examples of generators. Yes, I would like a plasma TV, but its not that important to me (right now) whereas a generator is pretty important given PSNH's inability to restore power in a decent period of time in my area and to have it for camping all the better.

Noise in and of itself is very subjective also. Perhaps I have sensitive ears, and things sound louder than they are.

I have no idea if you are being inconsiderate or rude, as I don't camp next to you. Maybe one day I will and I can better judge that 🙂

Your sound decibel examples were great, and quite frankly should be enough for most people looking for a generator. That 'real life' equation would probably help a great number of people here.

I really did not need AC on my trailer, nor do I need the portable satellite dish, or the Tivo, or the blackberry, or the house in the woods with lots of land, there is way too many things that could be classified as "do not need" however I choose to spend my money on the things that are important to me at the time. A generator is important to me now, and for me I want to find the balance of the lowest decibel output rating under load for price. If I spent a couple of hundred more, so be it. I choose to look at it as saving money from buying a EU3000 unit that would have cost $1800, for the price I paid for the Kipor, I'm happy.

Please, and this goes for everyone, don't take my post the wrong way. I am not belittling your purchase in anyway. I have just had some bad experiences with generators in camping situations, and wanted to get all sides.

I could care if its a Honda or Yamaha or a Bongo unit, I just want the balance of sound and price. I'm lucky to have stumbled across a listing on craigslist of a guy a short drive away, so I could see and hear the unit, and then get it for a good price.

Thanks again for your outline, it was helpful to me, and I am sure to most folks that browse this topic

Xièxie 😉

[nsbat7]

professor95 wrote:
There are a number of different ratings given. The 76dB rating is at 3 feet (not 23 feet) on the exhaust side.

If you want to compare apples to apples, the ... at 7 meters is the one to use.

I have measured it and know for a fact that it is an accurate rating.

Professor, I trust your readings (based in your obvious experience) I'm just reading the information out of the website.

"Sound Levels : dBa scale at 22.75 ft. Facing sound meter@operating load"
Engine : 76 dBa
Panel : 72 dBa
Muffler : 70 dBa
Backside : 72 dBa"

Nestor

[nsbat7]

javascript wrote:
but I found a guy local to me selling for $750, used once... I am going to take a look at it tonight and then will report my results if I pick it up. It's not real cheap, but it's not real expensive either if it is quiet and can handle the load

Pep Boys Auto has an ALL POWER 2000W (quiet) digital generator on sale for $599. The link said $699 but is on sale @ $599.

http://www.saleshound.com/saleshound/listing_detail.asp?ListingID=-2094668793&OfferID=&StoreID=2315145

Nestor

[professor95]

nsbat7 wrote:
The 76 dBa information is out of the Champion Power Equipment website.

There are a number of different ratings given. The 76dB rating is at 3 feet (not 23 feet) on the exhaust side.

If you want to compare apples to apples, the ... at 7 meters is the one to use.

I have measured it and know for a fact that it is an accurate ratin...

[professor95]

NHBlackLab wrote:
Not sure if this model is Chinese or not:

Kipor KGE3500ti

but I found a guy local to me selling for $750, used once... I am going to take a look at it tonight and then will report my results if I pick it up. It's not real cheap, but it's not real expensive either if it is quiet and can handle the load.

It is Chinese built.

If you carefully read the specs and note the noise levels you will find it is 61dB at idle, and 70dB[A} at full load using the 7 meter rule.

Unless you are going to run it at idle (no...

[nsbat7]

AZDesertRat wrote:
They are actually 68dBa.

The 76 dBa information is out of the Champion Power Equipment website.

There is NO Checker Auto Parts in south Florida. Does anybody know who sells Champion generators in south Florida? The closest down here is Pep Boys Auto and the Power Pro 3500 (3000 running watts) 500 less than the Champion. If I find a good deal I will buy the Champion and sell mine for 1000 xtra running watts.

Nestor