3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Congrats to Professor Randy on un-retirement and Associate Dean position!
Some guys are just gluttons for punishment - hope for a good "price" [LOL!].

Certainly hope this doesn't cut down on your forum participation - but I
think we have some qualified "Assoc. Deans" here too!

Note: This new position could mean The Prof may "step up"
to a Honda or Yamaha! [LOL!].
JC

[MrWizard]

Request: some list the import diff/simm between the champion and the contrator brands as they stand now. I want to pull all the info in into a FAQ and post it in this thread so it saves someone needing to make a quick decision from staying up the entire night to read all 2xx pages 😉

thanks,

a few thing s come to mind real quick,

they have an excellent customer service dept, that has been very quick to help people that contact them

they own the factory , that makes the generators, they are NOT re-labled, no other brand is the same as the champion, similar motors yes, but the quality is better with the champions

the champion RV ready and other medium size champion generators have an electronic voltage regulator, that supplies better voltage regulation and a cleaner sinewave than the brushless contractor grade models

large muffler, exhaust noise is very low, NOT stealth quiet , BUT not lawnmowwer noisy,

[CurtNLA]

FWIW, I recently completed installing my Champion in the bed of my truck. I ran #8 wire from the hitch paralleling the existing camper hookup cable into the front storage compartment of the 5ver. I then drilled through the back of the front storage and ran the cable through the main storage area into a boxed in area behind my main panel. I installed the automatic switch in this boxed in area and tied the existing 50Amp cable and the generator 30Amp cable into the switch. Have tested everything thoroughly and everything seems to be working perfectly. I took it on a 540 mile trip (270 each way) running the generator and main 15k A/C and refridgerator. Again, everything appeared to work perfectly. The last two procedures I did concerning the generator in the truck bed was to purchase an advance folding truck cover and a lock for the tailgate. Finished installing the cover yesterday and the lock on the tailgate today. I love this setup and FYI, had to roll the window down at redlights, etc. to determine if the unit was running.

I did not take pictures of the installation procedure, but can reverse engineer the installation to a point for pictures if needed. I will be most happy to assist in whatever way I can on a FAQ including computer work.

PM me if desired or send an email. Curt

[professor95]

stockrex wrote:
Request: some list the import diff/simm between the champion and the contrator brands as they stand now. I want to pull all the info in into a FAQ and post it in this thread so it saves someone needing to make a quick decision from staying up the entire night to read all 2xx pages 😉

I am glad someone is willing to try and assemble a FAQ. I have thought about doing it many times, but just have not been in a position to devote the time necessary to compile everything. I am in the middle of changing hats at the college (moving from instructor to Associate Dean position) and my 25 hour work week has become a full time 40+ hour week. Why a 60 year old guy who has retired once previously would do this is still a mystery to me - but I want to give it a go!

I will be glad to read what you compile to see if it agrees with what I believe to be relevant. I will also do my best to contribute what knowledge I may have about who makes what.

There are a few other guys that have hung out here for almost as long as I have - MrWizard, Toprudder, Teamslacker and NavyChop are some that quickly come to mind. Hopefully they will help with the assembly of the FAQ.

Go at it, my friend!

[professor95]

Sonnic and Toprudder wrote:
Whoa, I wouldn't do that. It does not sound like the windings are reversed if 1) he is measuring 120v at the 30 amp plug, and 2) the generator does not power down or load up. If there is a problem, it is probably in the wiring to the internal voltmeter. I would plug something relatively immune to low voltage (like a light bulb, or space heater) to see if it is actually producing 120v under load.

If he reverses the windings and starts up, it is essentially a short circuit -- not good.

Bob R.


I did not rewire the rewire. I believe Rob you are right. I was a little cautious when I first saw the voltmeter I didn't really want to plug anything into it when it was reading 120v across plug without breakers on. I went and did it anyway and it works great 2 1500w space heaters worked fine (nothing with breakers off). But when I pluged in my aircompressor (relatively large) it didn't hardly pump (figured this)but didn't pop breakers not even when I placed a 1500w heater with it slowed everything down but didn't pop breakers I didn't run it to long like that. When running the aircompressor on normal, it popped easy. The CB are rated approx 12.7amp and 25.5amp I guess I'll have tobe carefull of the load I place on this or replace the breakers. I didn't really need to rewire it, but I'm one of those (since I can I might as well). The whole thing went together quite well not long and a not bad place for DPDT switch. The 20ft 30amp twist lock plug to 30amp rv plug extension cord works great also. Many thanks to all on this site contributing there info. Anyone who wants to try rewiring their elim3600ss pm me and I'll send you pics and diagrams.

Thanks Rob and Professor95

I did not read sonnic's posting in the same manner you did. Apparently you saw something I missed. Quite frankly, I am still not sure what he has done in rewiring.

What I should have done (and did not) was post a wiring diagram showing how the circuit should appear once the changes have been made. I am doing that now.

BTW, reversing the stator windings would not cause a short. What you would end up with is opposing phase relationships and zero voltage out at the combined outlet.

It is good to have someone in the infield like Bob. He has the ability to catch those low wild balls that sometimes come off of home plate.

Original Schematic



Rewired Schematic

[stockrex]

good satday afternoon from super humid west michigan,

few items of interest for those needing to buy a genset or adapters etc.

here is a link to the homier ad which has the contractor brand

http://www.MegaShare.com/images/664

link to the genset in the ad
http://www.homier.com/detail.asp?cat=188&sku=03237

link to the GFCI extension cable, much cheaper than the sporting goods stores.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91125

twist lock adapter

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93310

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40049



Request: some list the import diff/simm between the champion and the contrator brands as they stand now. I want to pull all the info in into a FAQ and post it in this thread so it saves someone needing to make a quick decision from staying up the entire night to read all 2xx pages 😉

thanks,

[sonnyc]

toprudder wrote:

professor95 wrote:

Sonnyc wrote:
This is my first post. I am new to this site and I have to say it's great. I have been reading for many hours. I have a elim3600ss that I have rewired it with a DPDT switch as per allpraisebob's diagram on page 90. On normal it's fine it's when I switched it to enhanced it gives me 120v at plug without both CB on and voltmeter on generator showes 120v. When I turn them on the voltmeter on the generator droped to approx half power. The generator doesn't power down or nothing. When checking the volts at plug with fluke it reads 120volts at 30 amp plug. I have not plugged anything into it. I have checked and rechecked wiring with no success what I did wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I have the original wiring diagram that I paste in my profiles.

It sounds like there is a good possibility that you have the phase of the two stator windings reversed. Take the two wires for one stator winding and flip them. Let me know if this resolves the issue you describe. If this doesn't make any sense, drop me a PM.

Whoa, I wouldn't do that. It does not sound like the windings are reversed if 1) he is measuring 120v at the 30 amp plug, and 2) the generator does not power down or load up. If there is a problem, it is probably in the wiring to the internal voltmeter. I would plug something relatively immune to low voltage (like a light bulb, or space heater) to see if it is actually producing 120v under load.

If he reverses the windings and starts up, it is essentially a short circuit -- not good.

Bob R.

I did not rewire the rewire. I believe Rob you are right. I was a little cautious when I first saw the voltmeter I didn't really want to plug anything into it when it was reading 120v across plug without breakers on. I went and did it anyway and it works great 2 1500w space heaters worked fine (nothing with breakers off). But when I pluged in my aircompressor (relatively large) it didn't hardly pump (figured this)but didn't pop breakers not even when I placed a 1500w heater with it slowed everything down but didn't pop breakers I didn't run it to long like that. When running the aircompressor on normal, it popped easy. The CB are rated approx 12.7amp and 25.5amp I guess I'll have tobe carefull of the load I place on this or replace the breakers. I didn't really need to rewire it, but I'm one of those (since I can I might as well). The whole thing went together quite well not long and a not bad place for DPDT switch. The 20ft 30amp twist lock plug to 30amp rv plug extension cord works great also. Many thanks to all on this site contributing there info. Anyone who wants to try rewiring their elim3600ss pm me and I'll send you pics and diagrams.

Thanks Rob and Professor95

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:

Sonnyc wrote:
This is my first post. I am new to this site and I have to say it's great. I have been reading for many hours. I have a elim3600ss that I have rewired it with a DPDT switch as per allpraisebob's diagram on page 90. On normal it's fine it's when I switched it to enhanced it gives me 120v at plug without both CB on and voltmeter on generator showes 120v. When I turn them on the voltmeter on the generator droped to approx half power. The generator doesn't power down or nothing. When checking the volts at plug with fluke it reads 120volts at 30 amp plug. I have not plugged anything into it. I have checked and rechecked wiring with no success what I did wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I have the original wiring diagram that I paste in my profiles.

It sounds like there is a good possibility that you have the phase of the two stator windings reversed. Take the two wires for one stator winding and flip them. Let me know if this resolves the issue you describe. If this doesn't make any sense, drop me a PM.

Whoa, I wouldn't do that. It does not sound like the windings are reversed if 1) he is measuring 120v at the 30 amp plug, and 2) the generator does not power down or load up. If there is a problem, it is probably in the wiring to the internal voltmeter. I would plug something relatively immune to low voltage (like a light bulb, or space heater) to see if it is actually producing 120v under load.

If he reverses the windings and starts up, it is essentially a short circuit -- not good.

Bob R.

[professor95]

Sonnyc wrote:
This is my first post. I am new to this site and I have to say it's great. I have been reading for many hours. I have a elim3600ss that I have rewired it with a DPDT switch as per allpraisebob's diagram on page 90. On normal it's fine it's when I switched it to enhanced it gives me 120v at plug without both CB on and voltmeter on generator showes 120v. When I turn them on the voltmeter on the generator droped to approx half power. The generator doesn't power down or nothing. When checking the volts at plug with fluke it reads 120volts at 30 amp plug. I have not plugged anything into it. I have checked and rechecked wiring with no success what I did wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I have the original wiring diagram that I paste in my profiles.

It sounds like there is a good possibility that you have the phase of the two stator windings reversed. Take the two wires for one stator winding and flip them. Let me know if this resolves the issue you describe. If this doesn't make any sense, drop me a PM.

[happykampr]

Is there a current Partsamerica.com coupon code?

[ol_Bombero-JC]

FYI - Pep Boys in Kali (CA) - same [UST & Power Pro].
The Power Pro was "advertised" last week at $329. -
wonder if that is what Big Maxx is referring to.

Sent Maxx (Lee) a P/M about the start date of this thread -
he's a new member and may not have realized it began a year ago. [Lots of ELIM discussion then].

[Lee if you come back - welcome to the forum/s!]

Off subject here - but . . .
- for the Prof - sent you a P/M with Q about the
lightning thread [folks with damage] in the 5th wheel forum.
Best -or any- means to prevent or minimize damage to electronics from strikes in area ??
JC

[sonnyc]

This is my first post. I am new to this site and I have to say it's great. I have been reading for many hours. I have a elim3600ss that I have rewired it with a DPDT switch as per allpraisebob's diagram on page 90. On normal it's fine it's when I switched it to enhanced it gives me 120v at plug without both CB on and voltmeter on generator showes 120v. When I turn them on the voltmeter on the generator droped to approx half power. The generator doesn't power down or nothing. When checking the volts at plug with fluke it reads 120volts at 30 amp plug. I have not plugged anything into it. I have checked and rechecked wiring with no success what I did wrong. Any help would be appreciated. I have the original wiring diagram that I paste in my profiles.

[berniealvey]

Thanks for the information Professor. I bought 2 of the Champion C46540's. The 1st one arrived today I put oil and gas in it and ran it for about an hour with the TT connected and A/C on. I ran the Microwave for a couple minutes, It ran fine and my volt meter alternates between 110 and 120. It is not too noisy for me. I had it sitting in the back of my truck parked in front of the TT and could not hear it running inside the TT. I cant hear it standing at the front of my house which is about 40 foot away. So I am as happy as a pig in manure.

www.partsamerica.com is where I ordered them from for $329 and had a 10% discount code That made them $299 and $61.00 shipping so it cost $360. I ordered them Tuesday and got 1 today and the other one is coming Monday They said they had 800 in stock if anyone is looking for one.

[professor95]

Big Max wrote:
I have been reading this thread off and on for about a week and still haven't gotten anywhere near the end. I read enough to go to Pep Boys and buy a Elim3000.

Very interesting!

Pep Boys has not carried the ELM3000 in my area for over a year. ELIM International also dropped the Jiang Dong built ELM3000 shortly thereafter and introduced the 3000L made by another company (but Pep Boys did not offer this model).

Around here Pep Boys only carries the UST and Wen PowerPro models in the Chinese format.

Do you by any chance have a photo or more info on what you bought? I would kinda like to know what is going on with Pep Boys in your area.

[Big_Max]

I have been reading this thread off and on for about a week and still haven't gotten anywhere near the end. I read enough to go to Pep Boys and buy a Elim3000. I didn't get anywhere near the deal most of you folks did. They are now retailing for $349.00 and last week was on sale for $329.00 which I still think is a good deal. I had a 2" receiver welded to the back of our 5th wheel and obtained a aluminum cargo carrier. Took 2 3" muffler clamps an attached the gen to it. Still need to make a cover to keep it dry in the rain.
I'd like to thank all who contributed to this thread especially "The Professor"

Lee