3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

OOPS sorry, well I got canada costco right, but wrong model, dangIT

[LiveOnLocation]

MrWizard wrote:

Ctrl-Z wrote:
Simple question I think - does anyone know if the Champion C46540 is available for sale in Canada?

my memory might be off, but i seem to remember that costco in Canada is carrying them

Costco in Canada carries the C46535, the unit does not have a 30A RV plug. Regretfully.

[MrWizard]

Ctrl-Z wrote:
Simple question I think - does anyone know if the Champion C46540 is available for sale in Canada?

my memory might be off, but i seem to remember that costco in Canada is carrying them

[LLeopold]

Tony and I did discuss making more vent holes (or making them larger), and what I would do is build a baffle out of sound board and attach it to the "ceiling" of the box. The only question is would the air flow still be high enough to keep the temps low.

The 140 degrees target came from the owner's manual that had caution statements that the unit would produce heat at and over 150 degrees (to keep hands and other items away from the unit). Before the project even started, I took some measurements right at the exhaust area and measured temperatures in excess of 200 degrees near the muffler and the rear of the unit near the muffler. The engine "compartment" between the engine and the gas tank were 160-170 degrees.

I figured that if I could keep the exhaust end of the box near 140 degrees, that would mean that the air flow was sufficient to keep the exhaust area and the "compartment" area at their normal operating temperatures.

I think I accomplished that with Tony's advice. The next "addition" might be a remote thermometer, or even better a high temp. cut-off switch that I would set to, say, 200 degrees or less.

[JPatrick]

Lou: Very impressive design and work! I'm not an engineer, but I wonder if you can improve upon the air circulation (thus reduce the temps in the box even further) and maintain the sound level by tweaking the design. It seems Tony is pretty knowledgeable but what do you think about larger openings, which would increase the amount of noice that can escape, but incorporate some type of baffle to bring that noise level back down. The point would be to further reduce the temperatures inside the box, or is 140 degrees low enough to avoid excessive wear on the motor and generator?

[eightballsidepo]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Eightball - the UST has been on this thread (somewhere) before.
As I recall, the UST brand is good - think it was a replacement
for the Elim? previously carried by Pep Boys (which had problems).

Supposedly Champion does not re-badge. Guess it could
have the same Chinese engine.

Thank you for the info on the UST.

Am I correct in my observations that the UST3500 as sold by Pep Boys is not equipped with the 30 amp receptacle when compared to the Champ 4000 sold through Chucker/Kragen's, Coast and other distributors?

It just looks that way from the website provided by a member a few posts back.

[Ctrl-Z]

Simple question I think - does anyone know if the Champion C46540 is available for sale in Canada?

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Eightball - the UST has been on this thread (somewhere) before.
As I recall, the UST brand is good - think it was a replacement
for the Elim? previously carried by Pep Boys (which had problems).

Supposedly Champion does not re-badge. Guess it could
have the same Chinese engine.

[eightballsidepo]

toprudder wrote:

eightballsidepocket wrote:
Anyone heard of a UST Generator?

Just Got a Pep Boys circular ad in the mail today, and it looks like the Champion 4000.

Get ready for this price! $249.98 after a $50.00 mail-in rebate! Limit 2 per customer.

Says it's a UST 3500 generator, and is rated at 3,000 continuous watts. Only thing, I don't know if it has the 30 amp R.V. receptacle like the Champion 4000. From the ad picture I only see a duplex/20a/120 volt receptacle.

It's painted blue on the top where the fuel filler is.

Funny, the PepBoys circular for this area lists the Power Pro (Wen??) that is red. Check it out Here

Bob R.

Thats interesting! I compared the looks of the UTS 3500 to the Wen as displayed at that website for Pep Boys and there are minor differences in layout where the duplex receptacles are located, and other switches etc...

I wonder if these units are made by different Chinese Genset Companies or they do a little "badge" engineering like we see on cars built by the same Corporation that have just minor differences but are basically the same vehicle.......i.e. Firebird/Camaro...etc.

[toprudder]

eightballsidepocket wrote:
Anyone heard of a UST Generator?

Just Got a Pep Boys circular ad in the mail today, and it looks like the Champion 4000.

Get ready for this price! $249.98 after a $50.00 mail-in rebate! Limit 2 per customer.

Says it's a UST 3500 generator, and is rated at 3,000 continuous watts. Only thing, I don't know if it has the 30 amp R.V. receptacle like the Champion 4000. From the ad picture I only see a duplex/20a/120 volt receptacle.

It's painted blue on the top where the fuel filler is.

Funny, the PepBoys circular for this area lists the Power Pro (Wen??) that is red. Check it out Here

Bob R.

[backin15]

Curly2001 wrote:
What happened to the WEN Power Pro generators? Are they any good and is anyone buying them now? What can they power as far as A/C units?
Thanks,
Curly

I have the WEN. I did the wiring modification and it does power the AC and the micro at the same time and seems to have power to spare. I did not try it before tho wiring mod though. I am very happy with it but if I had a choice I would buy the Champion because it is RV ready. Otherwise they appear to be identical. The WEN has a regular 110v outlet and the other is a 220. I wired up a pigtail to convert the 220 outlet to a 30 amp RV outlet to take advantage of the larger metal to metal contact.

[eightballsidepo]

Anyone heard of a UST Generator?

Just Got a Pep Boys circular ad in the mail today, and it looks like the Champion 4000.

Get ready for this price! $249.98 after a $50.00 mail-in rebate! Limit 2 per customer.

Says it's a UST 3500 generator, and is rated at 3,000 continuous watts. Only thing, I don't know if it has the 30 amp R.V. receptacle like the Champion 4000. From the ad picture I only see a duplex/20a/120 volt receptacle.

It's painted blue on the top where the fuel filler is.

[LLeopold]

VDOCAD: Sorry, I posted the pics to the same location as I use for moderating the Beginning RVing section of the ORF. There are no permissions issues. Perhaps you have a URL filter in your browser, blocker, or firewall software that may be set high? The URL containing the pictures is: http://mysite.verizon.net/res1amdv/ with the pictures specifically set. If you have a blocker, firewall, or URL filter, you might want to add that URL to the "exceptions" list.

Hope this helps.

[VDOCAD]

Lleopold,

For some strange reason I cannot see your pics, all I see is squares with a red "X" in them, do you have them posted somewhere else on the web?

[LLeopold]

Oldfordman:

It is rated at 68 dbs @ 21 feet. Another poster confirmed this by posting this as part of his experimentation. After, we were below 59 dbs @ 21 feet if we go by the rating for the Honda (59 dbs @ 21 feet under load, 53 dbs @ 21 feet in eco mode). It was closer to the noise level of the Honda under load than the Honda in eco-mode.

Scottz:

Funny you should mention this as Tony (Firedude) asked me the very same thing. I was particularly sensitive as to what noise would "leak" out of the box if we had mounted items from the sides for better air flow. I figured if noise was to leak, I'd rather it be to the ground or out the top rather than side to side perhaps lined up with my neighbors.

As to whether it would have made a difference by making the air flow more efficient? I figured that so long as I was moving enough air through the box, it would keep the temps low enough.

BTW, I neglected to mention that the blower motor at the intake side is 100 cfm and the two exhaust fans (which are really intake but used to divert the air up and out the vent caps) are each 51 cfm. Considering that the box is 2'x5'x2' or 20 cubic feet, that's a lot of air being moved (total draw is 72 watts (.6 amps) @ 120 Volts ).

EDIT: Also, I neglected to mention that I first had the one exhaust fan to pull hot air out and down to the ground. Tony recommended that I drill the holes for the vents and reverse the exhaust fan so it pulled outside air up and push it out the vents. Adding the second fan to pull in air and push the hot air up was the "winning combination". Positioning that second fan near the muffler certainly did not hurt getting the hot air out. I also have to give Tony the credit for the position of the intake vent. I originally positioned it at the top of the generator (heat rises), but it was his idea to force the air between the gas tank and the motor itself (the heat source). That worked MUCH better in the initial heat tests. Thank you, Tony!! 🙂 We really had a lot of fun working on this that weekend.