3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:
I am NOT advocating that we not use GFCI protection, I just stated the potential of the problem to aid in troubleshooting GFCI nuisance trips --

I did not really think you were. But I am glad you added the statement so someone else would not get the wrong idea.

Thanks!

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
(portions snipped).......I think all of the contributors to this thread are good and law abiding citizens, who mean no harm and are most of all concerned with ultimate safety above common since. Not the best writing but I do this in asking for further guidance.

MELM has been the moderator of this forum for over 2-1/2 years. He has always been fair and in apparent support of our discussions. From time to time he joins in. I do not believe that has changed.

He expressed a personal concern on the safety issue of generator compartments not specifically designed for a particular model genset. I also have concerns with various ideas and frequently express them on the forum. So do others. That is what we are suppose to do, isn't it? In fact, I believe that is what you just did in your posting.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to curtail our discussions or ideas on enclosures, mounting, usage, etc. of portable genesets. Nor do we need or to delete previous postings where we have shared our ideas. We should not fear what someone else may say or or how they will respond. You see, ideas, right or wrong, are the fuel for new innovations, progress and growth. In the 2-1/2 years this forum has survived, I have watched as the little Chinese gensets went from a curiosity on the floor of local PepBoys auto stores to a phenomena that has grown beyond my wildest expectations. As you said the other day, the wealth of knowledge shared on this forum is mind boggling!

Also, keep in mind that there is a difference in a code and a statute (law). Codes may be derived from law, but codes such as those pertaining to RV construction or electrical installations in themselves are not law.

Innovation and modification of our RVs to make life more enjoyable is not a crime. A RV is a motor vehicle, at least in my state, and I am allowed to do everything from installing different engines to fancy fiberglass rebodies on my motor vehicles (another hobby of mine) as long as I maintain federal emissions and basic safety regulations concerning lights, brakes, etc. If I don't, I am not given my "sticker" and allowed to legally drive it in the highway - I'm not fined, arrested or put in jail. The fact that the original 2.5L 4 cylinder engine in one of my cars is now a 4.5L V8 was not an issue to safety inspectors last Spring. Neither should a Champion generator (or other Chinese, Japanese, etc.) model placed in your old Onan compartment if sound construction practices and prudent regard for safety are prevelant.

Fortunately, this forum has been a solid sounding board for ideas. If an idea appears unsafe, you better believe you will hear about it on this forum. If you need help with an idea, suggestions abound.

If you should sell a RV that has been modified, just be sure to disclose the modifications. If you are concerned about legal whiplash, write up a modification disclosure list and have the buyer sign it with a witness.

Please, don't let this little cloud drown your exploration or discourage you from expressing new ideas.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
But, let's go back to my question: "....would this really be a problem in a RV?" While we both know you are right in reference to design theory, is this really an issue of concern for the RVer wanting to install a portable or panel mounted GFCI? Or, are we perhaps letting our technical backgrounds override the obvious safety benefits of the device and thus discouraging its use?

Problem? Probably not. For me it would not be a problem because I use very few appliances while I am camping. For someone that uses a lot of electronic gadgets, it might be a problem.

I am NOT advocating that we not use GFCI protection, I just stated the potential of the problem to aid in troubleshooting GFCI nuisance trips -- just because it trips does not mean there is an unsafe ground fault occurring. And, if you unplug something and the GFCI stops tripping, that does not necessarily mean that device is unsafe.

Bob R.

[Old___Slow]

Ok, I've tried smelling the roses but at my age that is difficult. The thought of trying to do the same for all of my days remaining is not good. I love this thread and it being idle bugs me. I was shocked to fine my recent comments on this thread judged to be in the possible area of "lack of safety". I have lived my life trying to follows good rules. Even thou' some of the rules seem to be stupid. But then, I I'm not the judge and jury, which rules apply, in my quest for finding the best way to improve my life and to better protect my limited funds. It is my thought this should be a free America. Not totally free of the laws that apply to all areas but free to at least seek information by various methods, like asking for input from the people who might have knowledge that would be helpful in my search for the best product or method to fulfill my need. The laws that apply to my desired use of something I own and may and may not sell, like the approved(by laws which are no doubt forth coming on this thread) genset compartment. I had no idea the factory genset compartment might not be safe for further personal use in placing a Chinese genset in that space. I have not to this time driven my MH on the highway after placing the C46540 in the factory genset compartment. As to the safety of adding a unit with a fuel tank that may change the rules. I will be awaiting other possible rules/laws that my apply. I attempt to not mention any names in this post of folks that have added information concerning the use of the said compartment because I feel they shared good information in good faith. I think all of the contributors to this thread are good and law abiding citizens, who mean no harm and are most of all concerned with ultimate safety above common since. Not the best writing but I do this in asking for further guidance.

Old and Slow

[Todd_Barney]

Just a quick "hit and run" post. Day 9 of our trip to the Four Corners area with the Champion on the tongue of the TT. Once we started to hit some altitude, say, above 6,000 ft., the Champion will no longer run the A/C. With everything off, and the fan running for a bit, as soon as the compressor tries to kick on, the generator bogs and dies.

Also, oil is still being sucked out of the valve cover and into the air cleaner. I now suspect it may be the air currents around the tongue while going down the road.

Gas tends to seep out of the area around the fuel gauge, too. But, obviously this gen wasn't built for this kind of abuse, so I'm not complaining.

But the generator HAD still been running at altitude, and we were just running the A/C fan while underway. But then, the gen was still dying after a while.

That may be because the spark plug boot broke. I'm having trouble finding a decent replacement. No auto parts or hardware stores in Cortez, CO had anything. ATV and small engine shops closed on Sunday. Maybe I'll be able to find something in Durango on Monday. Meantime, I'm going to try JB Welding it back together.

It's starting to appear to me that the Champion is not necessarily a good "run while underway" solution. There's a reason those Onans cost so much, I guess. Still, if I'm able to fix the boot, and get the gen to run the A/C again once we hit the plains heading East, I'll be happy.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:

Hummmm.... Since the caps selected to provide both EMI and RFI filtering are generally designed for frequencies far above 60 Hz, would this really be a problem in a RV?...

toprudder responded:

Ideally, the caps would appear to be a dead short for the RF frequencies, and would not conduct any at 60 Hz. However, the conductance of the caps roll off as the frequency go down, but they don't go to zero until you reach DC. This is one reason for the leakage current test that UL requires.

http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/2001/janfeb/Georgerian36.html
Bob R.

OK, I agree. I studied the link information, absorbed the material and even used my trusty TI-83 to work through some of the formulas. There is absolutely no argument as to the validity and importance of your concern.

But, let's go back to my question: "....would this really be a problem in a RV?" While we both know you are right in reference to design theory, is this really an issue of concern for the RVer wanting to install a portable or panel mounted GFCI? Or, are we perhaps letting our technical backgrounds override the obvious safety benefits of the device and thus discouraging its use?

P.S. Bob, I've missed your postings lately. It is nice to see you poking the pin at the bubble once again! 🙂

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Hummmm.... Since the caps selected to provide both EMI and RFI filtering are generally designed for frequencies far above 60 Hz, would this really be a problem in a RV?...

Ideally, the caps would appear to be a dead short for the RF frequencies, and would not conduct any at 60 Hz. However, the conductance of the caps roll off as the frequency go down, but they don't go to zero until you reach DC. This is one reason for the leakage current test that UL requires.

http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/2001/janfeb/Georgerian36.html
Bob R.

[Wgeorge11]

MrWizard wrote:
... some regulations are there for NO other purpose ( unfortunately they are needed )than to protect mfg and prevent frivolous lawsuits from people who do stupid things, and add no measure of safety, they simply add defining terms, so the court can say 'you idiot' to the survivors

I agree.
With or without posted warnings, 'stupid is as stupid does'. The attitude of many "victims" is not so much frivolous as it is pure and simple ignorance, lack of common sense and personal responsibility, and a sense of entitlement blaming others and expecting payment for pain and stupidity. I recently bought one of those ladders that folds six ways from Sunday. It was literally covered with warning stickers. Liability issues are a real concerns for many of us and good for the insurance business. But they have the deep pockets worth going after, and that just adds more current to the circuit.
Personally, I try limiting my stupidity to five minutes a day, and also try keeping my mouth shut at that time.

[bobandcat]

I have taken to heart MELM's comments. My genset installation is for my use only. Anyone who attempts to do something similar, does so at their own risk. I am going to ask MELM to remove some of my posts.

[MrWizard]

MY portable geny is NOT used while inside the compartment, the compartment is the original built in RV genny compartment, it is sealed and insulated, the bottom under the sliding tray is open,

the way I understand it, I have NOT violated any of the codes, the RV was subject to went it was built.

safety has always been of tantamount concern with me.

it is my belief if you meet or exceed the safety regs/rules you should be OK, some regulations are there for NO other purpose ( unfortunately they are needed )than to protect mfg and prevent frivolous lawsuits from people who do stupid things, and add no measure of safety, they simply add defining terms, so the court can say 'you idiot' to the survivors

[professor95]

MELM wrote:

I have been watching as the interest in installing the portable generators is getting stronger. I have a safety concern with what I see.

I see no one addressing the various safety codes that pertain to generators installed in RV's; and, while I don't have the current requirements, I do have references to some that applied to my old installation (in 1989 in my '90 Champion LaSalle). And my old National Electric Code (1993) also includes a reference to other codes that apply.

An extremely good point and one that certainly should not be ignored. Perhaps someone will come forward with research based info related to these codes. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the language in all of them.

I also am unsure of the legal ramifications resulting from changes made to a RV after it is built and sold. Review of case law might give us some clues. Unlike a building or residence that must maintain code compliance and endure inspection when upgrades or changes are made to the structure and systems, RVs appear to fall into the category of other motor vehicles. Without a state inspection program with specifics such as cars and trucks have there is nothing to identify unsafe modifications made to a towable RV outside of lights, brakes, tires and the hitch assembly.

Again, well spoken words. I am glad you elected to make the contribution to the forum.

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:
Placing a GFCI in the master circuit (ie: a 30a inline with the generator) is more likely to have false trips. Many electronic appliances have emi filtering that may include small caps from each line to ground, which will cause leakage current. If there are enough appliances like this plugged in, even if on separate circuits, the leakage current will sum and my be enough to trip a GFCI when there is no ground fault condition.

Hummmm.... Since the caps selected to provide both EMI and RFI filtering are generally designed for frequencies far above 60 Hz, would this really be a problem in a RV? Also note that after many years of use the external GFCIs I use have never false tripped (to my knowledge). They have tripped from a defective electric frying pan and an abraded cable under the floor on our old '97 Mallard. Incidentally, I originally bought the GFCI not for personal safety but as a device to help protect the RV. About 8-9 years ago I had a no-longer-owned RV plugged into the house circuit. A bolt of lightning managed to find its way to our telephone cable, came into the house, jumped to the power line and fried TV sets, ceiling fan remote control circuits and, of course, the phones and computer modems. The control board for the RV refrigerator, the converter and the control board on the A/C in the camper were also fried. The GFCIs that were part of the house wiring all tripped. An external GFCI for the camper should have tripped when the transient hit (had one been used). GFCIs can be cheap insurance for equipment as well as people.

[MELM]

Professor95 - I'll pass on the Delete button for you this time...

I have been watching as the interest in installing the portable generators is getting stronger. I have a safety concern with what I see.

I see no one addressing the various safety codes that pertain to generators installed in RV's; and, while I don't have the current requirements, I do have references to some that applied to my old installation (in 1989 in my '90 Champion LaSalle). And my old National Electric Code (1993) also includes a reference to other codes that apply.

The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) provides some of these, such as the NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code; NFPA 58, the LP Gas Code (that applies to the ASME tanks and DOT cylinders and the installation in RV's).

The NEC I have references NFPA 501C for the compartment construction requirements.

My Kohler manual references:

1. ANSI/RVIA EGS-1
2. ANSI A 119.2/NFPA 501C
3. NFPA 70, the National Electrical Code
4. Any state and local regulations (states and local regulatory offices may amend codes to meet requirements they choose).

Today, these have no doubt been updated from when my MH was built and my books were written; and there may be new requirements.

I'll not speculate on legal liabilities for disasters that may occur from not meeting those codes; i.e. fire that damages several RV's. Or from selling a unit that has been modified to someone that has a disaster that may (or may not) have been prevented if the codes had been followed. There is an old saying that "...ignorance of the law is not an excuse."

I think it would be valuable for someone to post the pertinent parts of any and all regulations governing installing any generator in an RV - maybe someone that is planning on do it or has an interest and access to all the current codes and requirements.

One area that there may be readily available information is the addition of gasoline tanks and plumbing in a trailer - the toy haulers often have a "fuel station" as an option.
I suspect that meeting those requirements, and providing appropriate installation instructions in manuals, is at least part of the reason that the Honda, Onan, Generac, Kohler, et al RV generators are a bit more expensive than the portable units that have become so popular.

And I'll end with this reminder from the Forum Rules: "Other than enforcing the above rules, the management and staff does not attempt to validate any comments or recommendations provided by participants. As such, The Open Roads Forum is not responsible for any inaccuracies that may result in personal injury or damage."

Mel

[professor95]

It is hot as Hades outside. Our local weather forcaster reported it may be the hottest day of the year. I have chosen to stay inside where it is cool. In my boredom, I migrated to the computer and began to read through back e-mail.

My personal mailbox on RV.net gets almost as many comments and questions as the open forum. Most of the time the sender says “he is just a lurker” or perhaps hesitates to post a question out of concern that it may be inappropriate or “laughed at”. I always try to answer any questions sent to my PM and consider nothing unimportant.

Occasionally, the same question gets asked several times off the forum and never makes it where a greater population can comment as well. One such question that has popped up repeatedly in the past few days is how I have redesigned my RV power system. I have alluded to it in several postings, but have never fully explained it. Hoping it is not too far off topic (the genset is included), perhaps MELM (our moderator) will let it go unedited this time.

Normally, I would not write something this extensive on our forum. Any relevant photos are linked rather than posted.

Nancy and I really enjoy our camper. It is our lake home, river home, mountain home, and beach home. We love adventure but leave the tent and sleeping bags to the grandkids. Our idea of "roughing it" is not being able to pick up 110W on the satellite dish. I am also what might be called a “tinker”. No matter how the factory makes it, I believe I can make it better. I also like power. Lots and lots of electrical power. When it comes to the RV, it is no fun to just buy it, I must build it to be satisfied (of course, it helps if it works).

The OEM 30 amp power source was, in my opinion, inadequate for our TT and desires. We have a 15K BTU air conditioner, 1,500 watt electric water heater, a 1,500 watt convection oven, the RV microwave, an electric garbage disposal and two well configured entertainment systems. You also have to figure in Nancy’s hair dryer, electric space heaters in cool weather, the fridge heating element, coffe maker, electric griddle, hot plate and frying pan, and an assortment of other electrical appliances that we drag along on our journeys.

Messing with the OEM 30 amp service was taboo. Enlarging that system would be costly, difficult and, potentially unsafe. I elected to add a second 30 amp service to our TT.

Now, keep in mind that many RV parks also offer a 50 amp outlet at the power pedestal. This is typically required for large 5th wheel trailers and motorhomes, especially those with dual air conditioners. Often, there is no additional charge for this “extra power”. This 50 amp outlet is actually TWO 50 amp, 120 volt circuits. Thus, it is in reality equivalent to 100 amps at 120 volts. Wow, this is a full 70 amps of power more that the 30A outlet provides!

Wanting to use some of this extra available power safely (proper wire size, overcurrent protection, grounding, etc). I designed and built an auxilary power distribution panel & weatherproof housing that would plug into an available 50 amp outlet.

You will note from the photo that the power distribution panel has a 50 amp power cord going into a 100 amp Square D circuit breaker box. The 50 amp circuits are split. On each 50 amp circuit I have a 30 amp breaker and a 20 amp breaker. There are both 30 amp TT and standard GFCI duplex outlets inside the box tied to each leg of the 50 amp supply. Both the OEM and added 30 amp cords plug into the outlets in the box. Note the two portable 30 amp GFCI units in line with each cord. The lid on the box closes, making it weatherproof.

The second (additional) 30 amp power cord feeds into the rear curb side of the RV. There was a large unused space behind the water heater accessable from an internal cabinet where I could add the power cord and inside circuit box. The power access hatch was purchased as a replacement item at a RV store and cut into the wall, as was the outlet behind it. The OEM power hatch is on the street side. Inside I used a 70 amp, two circuit Square D circuit breaker box with two 20 amp breakers. I ran each circuit to a split duplex outlet mounted on the floor of the cabinet. I also mounted a duplex outlet that received power from the OEM power circuit – originally this was the circuit that went to the electric water heater.

A new 20 amp circuit was run to the kitchen counter via #12 NMC cable in plastic conduit fastened under the camper and along the frame. This included a new outlet under Nancy’s vanity for her hair dryer or an electric space heater. This circuit starts with a GFCI outlet for added protection. I ran a piece of #12SJ cable from the GFCI outlet and wired a heavy duty 20 amp male cap (plug) on the end of the cable.

The electric water heater control and element is also attached to a male cap, via a piece of #12 SJ cable. A new outside outlet was added (also GFCI) to provide power for “Randy’s Camper Kitchen” or as a selectable outlet for the onboard 1,200 Watt inverter.

Under the front slide-out there is a piece of OEM #12 SJ wire run along the outer edge (easily accessable)that feeds an outlet under the dining table. I cut this wire in two and reconnected it with a male and female 20 amp cap and plug. I can easily separate this wire from the OEM camper circuit and run it via a #12 extension cord to the 20 amp GFCI outlet in the power distribution box. This is great in cool weather when we want to use portable space heaters. You see, I hate the RV furnace. It is noisy and the air coming out of the registers is way too hot. Two 1,500 watt space heaters keep the camper comfortable in all but the coldest weather.

If I only have a 30 amp hookup available, I can plug the kitchen and auxiliary circuits into the internal outlet. I do not use the electric water heater feature when connected to only a 30 amps service. With 50 amps available, I plug all of the added circuits into the external outlet and power everything I can. Occasionally we may still trip the OEM main 30 amp breaker if we forget to cycle the microwave with a high power appliance while using the air conditioner. I have given a lot of thought to putting the microwave on yet another external circuit. Maybe this winter I will get to that.

If we go somewhere where NO power hookups are available I plug the curbside outside duplex outlet into the internal 1,200 watt inverter. I turn off the OEM 120 to 12 volt converter (why try to charge a battery from a battery?), put the fridge on propane and refrain from using the high power appliances. The OEM 30 amp power cord plugs into this outside outlet with the aid of a dogbone adapter. The inverter has a remote on-off. On the camper roof we have 32 square feet of solar panels that can provide up to 24 amps of 12 volt power in full sun (realistically, 12 amps is the norm). Half of the solar output goes through a Xantrex controller to the house battery (size 8D deep cycle); the other half goes to the inverter which is powered by two 12V, 93AH AGM batteries mounted under the camper just aft of the axle. These batteries have a 10 year life expectancy and are totally maintenance free (I never need to add water). The inverter easily powers the front and rear entertainment centers and small appliances like the Margarita maker blender like thing. I can get a good 8 hours of power from the inverter with a 25 amp battery load (about 250 watts AC, enough to run either entertainment center if I do not use the 5.1 surround sound amps.

The portable generator comes into play when we need extra power to run the air conditioner, microwave or other high current appliances that would quickly drain the inverter batteries. We don’t always have enough sunlight for the solar panels, so the generator can be a big help to keep them fully charged.

When we do need the generator I just move the OEM 30 amp plug from the inverter outlet to the generator outlet manually. Perhaps this winter I will automate the process with transfer switches and remotes. With the new Champion electric start genset this project will not be too difficult. I have the relays and control circuits for the project stored in the barn.

So, for anyone who was curious or had an interest, this is one way to safely expand your 30 amp RV power system.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Now that we seem to have established the need and purpose for GFCIs, both with and without portable genset connections, why don't we move on to the newest device, Arc Fault Circuit Interruption.

I don't have any of these, but have considered doing some retrofitting both in my home and the RV.

Funny you should mention that, I have been involved with EMC testing of AFCI breakers recently.

Yes, AFCI is completely different from GFCI. AFCI (arc fault circuit interrupters) detects arcs caused by bad connections that could ultimately lead to fire. While a GFCI breaker is a relatively simple device, AFCI is a very complex beast. The real difficulty has been coming up with a product that can detect the arc from a real problem (faulty connection) and not the arcs that are generated by the brushes and commutator inside something like a vacuum cleaner. This requires something like a microprocessor and some very complicated firmware.

I can't go into much detail besides that, but can say that several revisions of product have occured since they first hit the market. There are also breakers available or will be soon that have both GFCI and AFCI protection, but again be aware that some have 20ma equipment ground fault protection and not the 5ma people protection.

Is AFCI necessary in an RV? Good question. Personally, I am not in a hurry to retrofit mine. I would be more concerned with updating my house first.

Bob R.