3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
All:

This is a good time for me to ask for input: Is there a mod for the Champ. carb for use of a electric low pressure fuel pump or is this not possible.

A little over a year ago I was gung Ho on building the ultimate enclosure for my older ELM3000 genset. To do that, I had to remotely locate the gas tank.

I made a trip to AutoZone and, with the aid of a resourceful employee, found and purchased this little pump - hoping it might work.





But, alas, even the 2-4.5 PSI of the pump was too high and the float needle valve would not seal under the pressure. Thus, gas overflowed the float bowl.

Not wanting to give up I decided to drop the voltage on the pump down to 6V. I had on-hand a 6V lantern battery that would serve as a test power supply.

The carb did not overflow with the pump hooked to 6 volts. The engine ran smoothly. No, I had no way to measure such a low pressure. I reasoned if I continued to use this pump I would need to devise a method of shutting it down if the engine stopped. I thought, perhaps a relay powered from the 12V side of the genset would work.

I also experimented with propane using the knowledge I had gained from converting my Generac to propane. But, I did not have the proper demand regulator at hand to make the swap permanent.

Then, something happened and I lost interest in the entire project. It has sat in the barn since.

I cannot tell you the pump pictured is a good choice. Nor, would I even advise you to try one. I can only share my limited experience with this device.

Oh yes, one other thought comes to mind. I did consider a fuel pump like the one on a '90 Sea Doo Jet Ski. I also pondered the pump on my Kohler 14 HP lawnmower engine. There are several vacuum operated fuel pumps used in the outboard motor world that also looked promising, if I could come up with a good vaccum port on the engine.

In the end I decided if I continued with the project I would convert the engine permanently to propane using a US Carb Kit. It would cost more, but be a much safer solution.

[professor95]

Professor95 to Todd Barney wrote:
Believing you may need a richer mixture, why don't you try closing the choke until the engine begins to bog a little and then back off a hair or two. Try the A/C with the choke in this position. Unless my memory has failed me or I have gotten things bassakwards, this was the system used decades ago when cars and trucks that had carburetors and manual chokes crossed the Rocky's.

Alas, Gentlemen, I must share with you that I have a rather noxious disease that seems to be getting worse as I age. My wife and children, some of my students and a few close friends and associates have recently expressed concern.

To date, there seems to be no medical cure for the disease. My doctor says there is nothing he can give me to counteract the the symptoms.

Foot-in-Mouth disease can cause untold embarassment and regret in a large percentage of the population. Apparently, I had an extreme flare up when I attempted to answer Todd's question. Of course the mixture needs to be leaner, not richer. Now, I need to revisit the myth of feathering the choke in days of old when truckers crossed the Rockies. I am sure I read that somewhere........

[Old___Slow]

All:

This is a good time for me to ask for input: Is there a mod for the Champ. carb for use of a electric low pressure fuel pump or is this not possible.

[Grumpy4Ya]

SonicLogic,

Thanks for your reply and advice, I appreciate it. Sorry about responding so late, last week was “fair week” and between trying to take care of the generator so my wife and daughter have AC at the fairgrounds, other fair activities, work and life in general it was kind of hectic.

I ended up taking the easy way out and bought the Champion C46540 for a number of reasons. First, no modifications required. Second, that Coleman sounded like a P-51 Mustang powering up for take-off!, the Champion was a lot quieter. Third, from what I have read so far, there have been no bad reports of it on it in this thread.

The Champion powered the AC and several other devices in upper 90 to 100+ weather without any type of problem.

I figure I can sell that Coleman, at some degree of a loss I’m sure, and chalk it up to lesson learned. Thanks again for your advice.

[bobandcat]

I believe that the Champion carburator jet is sealed to prevent adjustment. I remember an earlier post that suggested removing the anti-tamper cap to adjust the air/fuel mixture for altitude compensation.

[Old___Slow]

toprudder

remember the old flying days, The GUMP's

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:

toprudder wrote:
So, what might he (or we) do short of re-jetting to compensate for altitude? Is the choke setting a myth or figment of my old imagination, or is it on track? Remember, I have lived most all of my life at or below 1,500 feet elevation (currently 185 feet).

Short of rejetting the carb, a supercharger would do nicely. 🙂 Or, nitrous oxide might work.

JUST KIDDING!

Since the air at higher altitude is less dense, the volume of air passing through the carb will need to have less fuel injected into the air stream to maintain the proper oxygen/fuel mixture. I have never heard of using the choke, and don't believe it would work since it would have the opposite effect, as well as adding a restriction to the airflow into the engine.

The Onan generator in my camper has an altitude adjustment. It is nothing more than a cap installed over the high-speed needle valve that limits the amount you can adjust the mixture. For high altitude, you turn the needle in, which leans the mixture.

Bob R.

[Todd_Barney]

Leaning the mixture seems to be the right way to go. It's sure running rich, now, based on the black soot all over the spark plug. I bought two more "extended, hot running" plugs and will swap them out as needed as they foul. Do wonder what its doing to the combustion chamber, though.

The JB Weld is curing as I type this. Don't see why it won't work, as I was able to fit the three pieces of the boot back together perfectly.

Agree that the tongue is a turbulent place. But I was concerned about the bouncing the gen would take (and inflict) on the rear of my 30+ft. TT. Perhaps I should have gone that way, though. I was also concerned about not being able to tell if the gen. was running with it way back there. My thinking was that I'd be able to roll down the window and listen, but the Champion is so quiet that unless I was at a dead stop, I couldn't hear it running directly behind the truck, either. 🙂

It's very possible that the cracked boot was responsible for much of my problems. I don't know how long it was cracked, I only discovered it when I removed the plug. This was a day or two after I had to give up trying to run it at all. Is it possible the extra load was causing it to arc to the engine and kill it, where it otherwise would have handled the load? (The cracked pieces were still held in place by the rubber grommet.)

I'll experiment tomorrow as we head out of Durango towards Albuquerque, and report in either that night, or the following night once I hit Dallas.

[Old___Slow]

Stupid question.......intelligent answer. o&s

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
I just read the Rvia Packard on my RV

That one just flew over my head. What is the "Rvia Packard" and what did it say? BTW - My HS girlfriend's Dad had a '56 Packard Clipper, but the Rvia was a Buick.:Z

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:
Generally speaking, the mixture must be leaned when going up in elevation. To be more accurate, when going up in density altitude (high, hot, humid

Considering your experience with RC airplanes/flying and your interesting genset de-icing rig, I readily bow to your expertise on the subject. So, what might he (or we) do short of re-jetting to compensate for altitude? Is the choke setting a myth or figment of my old imagination, or is it on track? Remember, I have lived most all of my life at or below 1,500 feet elevation (currently 185 feet).

[Old___Slow]

Pofessor95

Just one more thought and I'll try that 5 minute thing and silence on big mouth. I just read the Rvia Packard on my RV. Am I in compliance with the use of a C46540 in the factory genset compartment?

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
You are the first report I am aware of having trouble with starting the A/C at elevation with a Chinese genset. Believing you may need a richer mixture, why don't you try closing the choke until the engine begins to bog a little and then back off a hair or two. Try the A/C with the choke in this position. Unless my memory has failed me or I have gotten things bassakwards, this was the system used decades ago when cars and trucks that had carburetors and manual chokes crossed the Rocky's.

Generally speaking, the mixture must be leaned when going up in elevation. To be more accurate, when going up in density altitude (high, hot, humid).

[professor95]

Todd Barney wrote:
It's starting to appear to me that the Champion is not necessarily a good "run while underway" solution. There's a reason those Onans cost so much, I guess. Still, if I'm able to fix the boot, and get the gen to run the A/C again once we hit the plains heading East, I'll be happy.

The front tongue of your TT is an extremely turbulent area. Air flow may indeed be a negative factor. Consider that my genset is on the rear of our camper. I have run it underway with the air conditioner on with none of the problems you seem to be encountering. Of course, I am not at 6,000 feet nor have I driven the distance you apparently have with a running A/C.

The gas gauge will leak on the Chinese gensets. So will the fuel cap. Since every model out there appears to use the identical tank, gas cap and fuel gauge, the problem is universal. The solution to this problem has been not to fill the tank to the brim. I keep mine about 1/2 full when traveling and only fill it full when stationary.

You are the first report I am aware of having trouble with starting the A/C at elevation with a Chinese genset. Believing you may need a richer mixture, why don't you try closing the choke until the engine begins to bog a little and then back off a hair or two. Try the A/C with the choke in this position. Unless my memory has failed me or I have gotten things bassakwards, this was the system used decades ago when cars and trucks that had carburetors and manual chokes crossed the Rocky's.

I hope by now you have found a spark plug cap. If not, the JB should work. I personally never leave home without JB Quick and a tube of Plastic Welder epoxy.

[Old___Slow]

professor95

Thanks for lifting a heavy burden. Now I think I may be free in my pursuit of a good and happy experience in the use of my little Yellow and Black machine.

O&S