3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[budracer1]

MrWizard wrote:
Br and Re go together as (1) pair , ( 1 ) side of the NEW parallel windings

what looks like 'Y' and Bu make the other pair

you need (1) new 30 amp single pole breaker

there is NO neutral bond and NO grounding of the winding,

the breaker can go in line with either pair ( i would use the Br & Red pair as HOT ) and the use the Y & Bu pair as the neutral take your neutral and the HOT from the CB and connect them to your NEW 30 amp RV plug you install in place of the twist lock

remove all the other wiring and out lets

UNLESS you want to put (1) of the old 15 amp breakers in line with (1) of the old duplex to provide an aux connection for power tools

if you do this jumper the new breaker and out let from the 30amp protected circuit at the new RV plug.

any item on that outlet could trip the CB without tripping the 30, but if the combines load was too high you trip the 30 amp CB and not harm/burn of any genny wiring

Thanks mr wizard for your suggestion i will keep it in mind but i have filed a complaint to the BBB about the company and id like to see where that goes before making any "Un-reversible"changes.I actaully tried soemthing similar earlier under the phone supervision of another member here but we were un successful,but we were attempting to use the outlets that are currently available.I did note while i had the panel off that the 2 breakers are 23 amp a piece,kind of an odd number but thats what it says.If anyone can come up with any ideas using current outlets and no cutting of wires id really be interested.

thanks Jason

[MrWizard]

Br and Re go together as (1) pair , ( 1 ) side of the NEW parallel windings

what looks like 'Y' and Bu make the other pair

you need (1) new 30 amp single pole breaker

there is NO neutral bond and NO grounding of the winding,

the breaker can go in line with either pair ( i would use the Br & Red pair as HOT ) and the use the Y & Bu pair as the neutral take your neutral and the HOT from the CB and connect them to your NEW 30 amp RV plug you install in place of the twist lock

remove all the other wiring and out lets

UNLESS you want to put (1) of the old 15 amp breakers in line with (1) of the old duplex to provide an aux connection for power tools

if you do this jumper the new breaker and out let from the 30amp protected circuit at the new RV plug.

any item on that outlet could trip the CB without tripping the 30, but if the combines load was too high you trip the 30 amp CB and not harm/burn of any genny wiring

[quabillion]

budracer; the wires that need attention are the 4 going into the terminal block under the word "circuit" on your diagram. The "RU" wire that tvman spoke of might be the "RO" wire, it is quite hard to see the letter after the "R". Look to the lefthand side of the block, these are the wires in question. You "might" need a new breaker, unless the one you already have is rated for 30A. I cant see the rating on the diagram, you will have to look at the breaker itself.

Are you going to abandon/remove the current outlets and replace with a 30A RV outlet? If not you will need to jumper the breakers inputs to allow power to all of the outlets. But if you dont jumper then it is possible that you might have to reverse the hots on the twistlok (from the earlier posts) in order to supply power on the right prongs of the twistlok that your "dogbone adaptor" uses.

[budracer1]

tvman44 wrote:
Ok "Y" & "BU" would be connected together, "BR" & "RU" would be conneted together. Then connect one pair thru a 30 amp breaker to your connector. If you have to add any wire be sure to use a large enough wire to handle the current. HTH

Ok now i am confused(LOL)which dont take a whole lot i might add.So i need to get a new breaker?also i dont see the ru wire on the diagram.I might also add that i have never even seen wires on a generator so i may need more in depth instruction,:h

professor...you may be right all i know is what it says on the side and that it has a 13hp chinese honda copy engine.

thanks Jason

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
Ok "Y" & "BU" would be connected together, "BR" & "RU" would be conneted together. Then connect one pair thru a 30 amp breaker to your connector. If you have to add any wire be sure to use a large enough wire to handle the current. HTH

Yes, what he said.

I am puzzled by the 6,000 watt rating for the genny you show in the schematic. Looks to be about half, or 3,000 watts.

[tvman44]

Ok "Y" & "BU" would be connected together, "BR" & "RU" would be conneted together. Then connect one pair thru a 30 amp breaker to your connector. If you have to add any wire be sure to use a large enough wire to handle the current. HTH

[budracer1]

Ok guys here is the wiring diagram on my gen.Its not the best way to view it but it is an 8 megapixel photo so you can blow it up to see the writing better.As far a rewiring for "110 only" i would rather do whichever is easiest as i have never really messed with wiring but im pretty handy,and i have absolutely no need for 220.Guys i really appreciate all the responses and maybe i can get started after you take a look at this and tell me which way to go.if i have to get a switch will this one work?Switch
thanks Jason

[quabillion]

budracer; do a search on "parallel windings" or "series/parallel selector" in this thread only. lots of good info. i cannot comment on your gen specificly without seein a wire diagram. I think that you will end up needing a DPDT 2 position toggle rated for at least 20A, higher if you can find it.

the other option is to wire the windings in parallel and just leave it that way permanent 120V ONLY. you dont have to buy a switch this way, but some wire work on the gen is necessary any way you go. My gen is set up this way, I only need 120V. So learn all you can before starting, check doublecheck and if still unsure, refer to someone who has done it before many times, like at a generator shop or electric motor rewind shop.

[tvman44]

Sure you just have to parrallel the 2 windings but be sure they are in phase. If they are out of phase you will blow the ginny quicker than you can say oh sh?? >

[budracer1]

quabillion wrote:
.

if your gen has no 120/240V selector switch i recommend that you see about getting one. Running in "120V only" mode will make ALL these issues go away and stop the gen from posing a threat to your appliances with low voltage.

Is there a way to Wire it 110 only?I have no need for 220.

Thanks Jason

[quabillion]

budracer1 wrote:


Quabillion... So what your saying is move both hot wires opposite where they are now?that seems simple enough.

Thanks Jason

Budracer; you are exactly right, swap the wires.

if your gen has no 120/240V selector switch i recommend that you see about getting one. Running in "120V only" mode will make ALL these issues go away and stop the gen from posing a threat to your appliances with low voltage.

[budracer1]

Mr wizard it is a hard copy,the company said they didn't have a copy they could email me,so ill just have to take a picture and post it and maybe with a little luck you'll be able to read it.

Quabillion... So what your saying is move both hot wires opposite where they are now?that seems simple enough.

Thanks Jason

[MrWizard]

budracer1 wrote:
Mr wizard and professor. I only have a faxed copy of the wiring diagram'but I will take a picture of that and post it when I get home this aftenoon.

Thanks Jason

was this a hard copy FAX or a FAX to your PC ?

the file is already on your PC, it will in format that can either be posted as is, png or jpeg or viewed and converted by a photo program

[quabillion]

Well Professor you got me, early morning math never did work for me lol.

But more on budracer s gen, the update post said that he got it to work with one of the 20A outlets. Im wondering if the AVR is taking its readings from only one winding?? The convenience cord basically has 4 prongs and thus takes 2x120V circuits from the 120/240 outlet, the 120v circuit that you are using is not voltage regulated.Because only one of the 2 coils is being monitored for Voltage regulation in the generator, you are limited in how much load in-balance you can have. If you use the AVR pair, it regulates, if you use the other pair, it does not and you will see a voltage drop and amp rise thus blowing the breaker.

The solution;
On the backside of the 120/240V twist lock plug, reverse the 2 hot connections. They should be labeled X and Y, if unsure trace the wire back to the breakers. Doing this will move your load to the voltage regulated winding without need to purchase anything extra.

[budracer1]

Mr wizard and professor. I only have a faxed copy of the wiring diagram'but I will take a picture of that and post it when I get home this aftenoon.

Thanks Jason