3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[TKMJ]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
TKMJ - "normally" insurance companies payoff (even) for stupid
no-brainers which are the owner's fault, then cancel the policy.

Either he doesn't want to notify the ins company (no reason not to),
or he doesn't have insurance.

Expensive lesson.
I would wash my hands of the whole thing & let him deal with it.

JC

I did wash my hands of it the day I was in the house. I want no part of it. I just wanted to let you guys know what hapened so the mistake is not made again.



Ken

[ol_Bombero-JC]

TKMJ - "normally" insurance companies payoff (even) for stupid
no-brainers which are the owner's fault, then cancel the policy.

Either he doesn't want to notify the ins company (no reason not to),
or he doesn't have insurance.

Expensive lesson.
I would wash my hands of the whole thing & let him deal with it.

JC

[TKMJ]

I fully agree! However one thing comes to mind. Right now I am sitting home recovering from a heart attack and not working. So I hang around my coach and yard. To date, I have not seen any insurance adjusters or cleanup crews that an insurance company would send out. So does this guy have insurance on the property? He says yes but does he really?

I am also an electrician 30 years into the trade. When I looked after the fire upon his asking, I found the panel to be very old and far from the best of shape. I found breakers over rated for the wire that were very loose fitting on the bus. Heat? Age? Poor clamping causing arcing from the bus? The panel is a Federal Picific with the stab lock breakers. Long ago FPE lost their UL aproval on the breakers due to not properly triping and poor design of locking into the bus. Now we call them "Federal no trips". When he purchased the home five years ago, I'm sure the inspector sent out by his mortgage company would have flagged the panel.

[professor95]

quabillion wrote:
I dont get it professor. What do you mean????

I'm sorry, Ryan. I was vague.

Picture the scene:

College lab with a dozen or so 3rd year Electrical Engineering Students. (Perhaps you are one of them.)

I'm conducting a lecture on the key elements of deriving at what Power Factors are - something like you shared.

My class appears to be really getting into the lecture. When I am finished I ask if there are any questions.

One student raises his hand.

I point at him and almost yell, "Yes, Ryan, what is your question?" (I'm expecting something really relevant!)

Ryan responds, "So does the red wire go to the plus or minus on the battery?" (Which, of course, tells me that what I just tried to explain went right over his head and out the window - so to speak).

....................

Just another corny analogy. My students used to tell me I was "weird". But, they also told me that was one reason they liked me and my classes. Go figure????

[professor95]

TKMJ wrote:


He never shut off his main house breaker to block the power companies voltage.

Ken

Which also means he was backfeeding into the power grid. I am surprised this did not trip the genny breaker?

Anyway, $38,000 dollars in repairable property damage is pretty insignificant to the electrocution of a lineman or other innocent individual from the backfeed.

Dumb, really dumb! :S Scarry too! :E

[Matthew_B]

I'd be really shocked if something came out of the panel. A generator short really can't be worse than a dead short because of the winding impedance. If the panel shoots sparks then there is major problem there.

The guy needs to hire a lawyer. Yes he was stupid, but there is some split liability here.

[TKMJ]

Old & Slow wrote:
hmmm,:h

I did the same thing as you are doing now. The only thing that I can come up with is the fire in the laundry room and kitchen were actually caused by sparks flying from the bottom of the panel front, landing in the opened waste basket below it. I believe that there was a pile of dryer lint in the waste basket that was ignited by the sparks causing the mass fire. Before the power outage, the lady of the house was doing laundry.

Ken

[Old___Slow]

hmmm,:h

[TKMJ]

WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!

Hey guys, Sorry I have not been here for a while but work and family has kept me away.

Anyhoo....... My neighbor has really caused a huge problem for himself.

Two weeks ago we had a power outage at home. Both my neighbor and I have coaches and chinese gensets. We also both have RV recepticals on our homes so we can plug in our coaches when in the yard.

During the power outage, my neighbor got the wild idea to use his genset to power his home. He made up a male to male jumper cord to plug his genset into the house RV receptical. Everything was great for about an hour until..... You guessed it, the power came back on. He never shut off his main house breaker to block the power companies voltage. Instant Explosion and FIRE in the house panel. The fire swept the laundry room and kitchen areas. The genset was also damaged beyond repair. Total damages are to the tune of $38000 to the house that insurance will not cover because he did a stupid thing.

If you plan on using your genset for power outages for your home, purchase and install a proper transfer switch system.

Ken

[JConatser]

quabillion wrote:
I been wondering something too.
Why is it that manufactures of smaller, say less than 5KW, generators will advertise the wattage rating but not the KVA rating? ... ... Kinda seems like the big gens have it plainly listed ...

And the answer is... The Marketing Department. Since most larger generators are bought by entities who have a decent knowledge about things electrical (e.g., businesses), the Marketing Dept doesn't put a lot of effort into the "fool 'em" routine. However, since a lot of the smaller gennys are purchased by "the normal everyday person" (i.e., those who by default aren't very "technical savvy" about things electrical), the Marketing gurus figure their usual "baffle 'em with BS" tricks will have a pretty good chance of working. And thus they try. And in a lot of cases they're successful.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
Elevation also has a major impact on the temperature water boils and baking cookies :).

Another less known impact of elevation is that, since the air is less dense, the ability of the air to cool is reduced. In other words, it will take MORE air volume (at the lower atmospheric pressure) to perform the same job of cooling the generator and engine.

[quabillion]

I been wondering something too.
Why is it that manufactures of smaller, say less than 5KW, generators will advertise the wattage rating but not the KVA rating?
All of the larger generators that I have dealt with had the KVA rating right next to the KW rating, and 9 times out of 10 they were way different numbers.

Kinda seems like the big gens have it plainly listed because it is critical to know information. Yet on smaller generators it is rather difficult to find if at all.

[Old___Slow]

Thanks James and where have you been hiding. I needed your post. The game I remember but the real deal was nice reading, however it missed making contact. Brain dead from trying to figure out what the WS boys have done with the power factor of the green paper.

[JConatser]

Ah, yes, the ole Power Factor stuff.... I like reading about that kind of stuff myself. :B For those who might be interested in reading more about it, click here.

[quabillion]

I dont get it professor. What do you mean????