3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
I unintentionally gave some wrong information a few postings back.

The Champion 40026 is a new model.

The 46540 has been discontinued. It's replacement is the 46514. The new model looks identical to the old 46540 but includes (at no extra charge) an over voltage protection module.

It is hard to keep all this model stuff straight. The new model numbers are for EPA certification requirements. The 46540 has had several running production refinements over the past two years. The most significant changes were the stronger rocker arm assembly and a low oil level switch that is not prone to sticking in the shutdown position. Other than disassembly and examination, I do not have a way to tell if individual 46540 models have these changes or not.

Yes,lot of new model numbers. I see on Amazon.com some new numbers with reviews the warranty seems to be covered by CPE. There is the Champion C46517 @ $349 ( non-carb) and the C46534 @ 399 that is carb compliant. The gensets look something like the 40008 on the face. But, I find no new Champion with Electric Start like the 40008. Sure glad I added Electric Start to my C46540. Just the twist of the key and she fires right up. Nice for a old man even tho' it is pretty easy to start. When you cut off the fuel to shut down, takes several extra pulls to start.

[professor95]

I unintentionally gave some wrong information a few postings back.

The Champion 40026 is a new model.

The 46540 has been discontinued. It's replacement is the 46514. The new model looks identical to the old 46540 but includes (at no extra charge) an over voltage protection module.

It is hard to keep all this model stuff straight. The new model numbers are for EPA certification requirements. The 46540 has had several running production refinements over the past two years. The most significant changes were the stronger rocker arm assembly and a low oil level switch that is not prone to sticking in the shutdown position. Other than disassembly and examination, I do not have a way to tell if individual 46540 models have these changes or not.

[professor95]

Wrace,

Yes to all.

[Wrace]

professor95 wrote:

The L14-30R outlet will give you two separate 120 volt, 15 amp circuits just like the gensets with series windings. You will need to use an adapter in this outlet designed to terminate in two 5-15R or 5-20R type outlets.

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. Wanting to run various 110v items off my C46540 like Old-and-Slow mentioned during times of power outages. The pigtail in the above link plugs into the 240V L14-30P and splits it into two 110V outlets?

So this means the three position toggle switch needs to be switched over to the 240V side, rendering the 110V outlet on the gen itself inoperable?

This setup would be more desirable than plugging some sort of 110 multiplier pigtail into the gens existing 110v single outlet?

Thanks

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
The difference in wattage ratings are, IMHO, insignificant.

Good to know! I like the fact that it has the over-voltage shutdown, too!

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:


On another note, I was just in the local Tractor Supply store, they have an RV model in stock again. Not the same as mine, it has the 120/240 switch and is rated 4000/3500 where mine is rated 3500/3000. Makes me wonder exactly what is different inside the gen head. Prof, do you know?

The 36540 is the last of the 2009 models. It has been around for about 3 years and is considered the tried and true Chinese RV workhorse. The 4,000/3,500 watt rating is overly optimistic, but since it puts two 15 amp circuit breakers in parallel when set to the 120 volt mode I guess they feel the 3,500 watt run rating is justified. The 4,000 watt rating is, of course, a peak rating that exceeds the over current protection rating of 3,600 watts and as such is not sustainable.

The 40026 is the 2010 model that replaces the 36540 (once inventory is depleted). The single circuit breaker over current protection rating of the 40026 is 25 amps at the RV outlet (3,000 watts), and 20 amps at the duplex outlet.

The 40026 is a 120 volt AC only model (no 240 VAC mode). It also features a new over voltage shut down module and the digital frequency, volts and hour meter.

I have noticed our local TSC store had the 36540, sold out and received a shipment of 40026 models, sold out again and now has the 36540 back in stock.

Of the two, I like the features of the newer 40026. It has the same genhead as my 40008 which has a lower THD rating than the 120/240 VAC genhead. The digital meter and over voltage shut down module are great features. If the AVR fails and voltage spikes over 140 VAC, the engine will immediately shut down - protecting anything plugged in from possibly being damaged.

The difference in wattage ratings are, IMHO, insignificant.

[toprudder]

It will surprise you, it will get a little louder, but not much. The exhaust noise gets a little louder, but the mechanical noise does not. With no load, the mechanical noise is dominant (my opinion).

[chrisser]

I fired my new generator up this weekend. Plugged in a small saw just to put some load on it, although it wasn't much.

I was pleasantly surprised how quiet it is out of the box.

I'm assuming it gets a lot louder as the load increases, as it wasn't anything near lawnmower loud.

[toprudder]

Went on another outing with my camper and Champion generator this past weekend. I had one guy come over to check out my toyhauler when he noticed my generator. He had several questions about it, which I answered, and started it up for him to hear it run. He left and came back a few minutes later with a friend that was also interested. I told them I bought it at Lowes in Wake Forest, NC. The next day they told me the local Lowes did not carry it, but they had them ship two units from the WF Lowes to the local store for them to pick up. 🙂

On another note, I was just in the local Tractor Supply store, they have an RV model in stock again. Not the same as mine, it has the 120/240 switch and is rated 4000/3500 where mine is rated 3500/3000. Makes me wonder exactly what is different inside the gen head. Prof, do you know?

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Hmmm, I'm now lost as a goose in fog. After spending some time in the shop with my Champion C46540, I now question if it's the ideal genset for back up power or a contractor type needing to operate several pcs tools.. It has two 15a reset push button type breakers and one single 20a 120 volt receptacle. At one time I plugged a power strip into the single outlet and operated a 1500w heater and a 200w power drill but that is the most wattage I've tried. The gensets with the duplex wired from seperate windings ( like the 98706 from HF) gives, I guess, apx 1500w on each end of the duplex. How would I get that much from my Champion C46540?

After looking into this question of perhaps the need to rewire some older gensets, it does appear improvement was called for. My Champion C46540 is deficient with only one single 120v 20a receptacle. And the Rv 30a.
Some other gensets covered on this thread recently have problems one way or another. This points toward the idea we still need improvement in some on the market gensets. Some of the older models are being cleared out making room for the improvements needed.

Floyd

The L14-30R outlet will give you two separate 120 volt, 15 amp circuits just like the gensets with series windings. You will need to use an adapter in this outlet designed to terminate in two 5-15R or 5-20R type outlets.

Prof'

Thank you ever so much. I ordered this adaptor today. Every Champion C46540 owner could use this to a good advantage. I needed it to use with the C46540 for back-up power. Now I can run several extention cords to the house or for use with several power tools @ 15a each. Wow, what one add on can do. 'This thread is the place to go for all needed info' on 3000w Chinese Gensets'.

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

Moved to above.

[professor95]

PPCLI-Jim wrote:
heres a question for the gear heads .. those with alot of mechanical inclination , and i see alot of them here.I know a lot of noise comes from the fins and vibration of the motor so ... When dirt motorcycles first started going to water cooling all some guys with skill did was remover the fins off the air cooled cylinders by cutting milling etc and making a water jacket to fit around it. then mig welding it to the cylinder fitting a small rad and pump. i realize that with a stationary motor like this we also have to add a fan to move air past the rad but why hasnt any one tried this . too expensive? to many parts? too complicated of build? that would help draw heat away from the enclosure would it not ? just wondering thanks all jim

It would take a lot of skill and work.

I did consider modifying the cylinder so that I could insert copper tubing in between the fins to circulate water around the cylinder. Unfortunately, I got bogged down in the calculations needed to determine if the loss of heat absorption via air cooling by blocking the exposed surface around the cylinder with the copper tubing would equal the absorption gained by the addition of the tubing with water circulating. (Did that make any sense?) A pump to circulate the coolant (electric) and a fan to blow across the radiator (also electric) would be needed. The power to run these two devices would reduce the available wattage from the generator as well as adding an additional heat load.

In short - it quickly became way too complicated and expensive to go further.

I did seriously consider building a heat exchanger system made from a surplus window air conditioner condenser and evaporator. The condenser inside the enclosure to collect heat and the evaporator outside to expel heat by using a 2.5 GPM 12 volt water pump like the one in a camper to circulate antifreeze coolant. But even that was problematic due to the electrical load imposed by the pump and fans. Thus, I wrote it off as a bad idea.

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Hmmm, I'm now lost as a goose in fog. After spending some time in the shop with my Champion C46540, I now question if it's the ideal genset for back up power or a contractor type needing to operate several pcs tools.. It has two 15a reset push button type breakers and one single 20a 120 volt receptacle. At one time I plugged a power strip into the single outlet and operated a 1500w heater and a 200w power drill but that is the most wattage I've tried. The gensets with the duplex wired from seperate windings ( like the 98706 from HF) gives, I guess, apx 1500w on each end of the duplex. How would I get that much from my Champion C46540?

After looking into this question of perhaps the need to rewire some older gensets, it does appear improvement was called for. My Champion C46540 is deficient with only one single 120v 20a receptacle. And the Rv 30a.
Some other gensets covered on this thread recently have problems one way or another. This points toward the idea we still need improvement in some on the market gensets. Some of the older models are being cleared out making room for the improvements needed.

Floyd

The L14-30R outlet will give you two separate 120 volt, 15 amp circuits just like the gensets with series windings. You will need to use an adapter in this outlet designed to terminate in two 5-15R or 5-20R type outlets.

[Old___Slow]

Old & Slow wrote:
Hmmm, I'm now lost as a goose in fog. After spending some time in the shop with my Champion C46540, I now question if it's the ideal genset for back up power or a contractor type needing to operate several pcs tools.. It has two 15a reset push button type breakers and one single 20a 120 volt receptacle. At one time I plugged a power strip into the single outlet and operated a 1500w heater and a 200w power drill but that is the most wattage I've tried. The gensets with the duplex wired from seperate windings ( like the 98706 from HF) gives, I guess, apx 1500w on each end of the duplex. How would I get that much from my Champion C46540?

After looking into this question of perhaps the need to rewire some older gensets, it does appear improvement was called for. My Champion C46540 is deficient with only one single 120v 20a receptacle. And the Rv 30a.
Some other gensets covered on this thread recently have problems one way or another. This points toward the idea we still need improvement in some on the market gensets. Some of the older models are being cleared out making room for the improvements needed.

Floyd

[MrWizard]

pritch272 wrote:
Are you going to get yourself another one, MrWizard?

not right now , not enough room to store another one.