3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

I have been told to expect the price of the model 40026 , which is RV ready and has the Intelligauge, will be reduced from a suggested retail of $349 to $299 for the next 6 mos. Retailers may drop their shelf price accordingly. This is one heck of a value at this price. It DOES NOT come will the Over Voltage Switch, but still has great use. Pass the word around for those looking for a great bargain.


TO McLOVIN:

On the Champion 1200. The engine is a Mitsubishi design rather than a Honda design. It is a nice little unit but lacks the voltage regulation and cleaner waveform of it's big brother. I also have and occasionally use a Champion 1200 around the ranch for situations where I need power for hedge clippers, drills, etc. You would do well to purchase one as a small backup or spare.

[1mclovin]

I know this thread is about Chinese 3000W gen sets but can I change the topic a wee bit?

I recently bought a Champion 3500/4000W generator for home power outages.

Champion makes a 1200/1500W generator of similar design. On sale they can be had for under 200 dollars. I might pick one up one up if I see a great sale on one as a backup to go with the other generator but was wondering if they are considered as good as the 3500 models? Honda engine clone?

McLOVIN

[bmet2000]

Looks like UPS may have been a little rough on it! Can't wait to get it going. Thanks for the help. I'll post an update soon.

[Old___Slow]

jasult wrote:
professor95

I was ready to buy the Champion 3500 and now I will wait for the EStart / remote 3500 as I need that much power. I curently have an old Coleman 1850 that I carry along just for coffee pot or what ever when boon-docking. The EStart / remote could be the cats meow and I am a member of both Costco and Sams so i will wait and see.
thanks
Jim

I think waiting is the right thing to do, for the NEW Champion Electric Start/Remote Control. I know it will no doubt be even more dependable than my C46540 has been over the last three years. With the help of Prof, my Champion has some nice upgrades.

[JConatser]

Definitely recheck and see if the petcock is where your gas is leaking. I, along with others on this forum, also had a gas leaking issue, and as best I can recollect, in all instances it was caused by the petcock bending/cracking the gas tank because of rough handling during shipment. As Prof said, Champion service is tops, and I predict they will get you what you need to fix the gas leak problem very quickly once you let them know about it.

[professor95]

bmet2000 wrote:
I have the model C46540 and I just took it out of the box 2 weeks ago. The plastic spark plug harness was broken and Champion shipped me a new one right away. I installed it today and put gas and oil in it and pulled several times on the cord and noticed gas leaking out. I looked underneath and it appears the tank has a rust hole in it. I haven't even fired it up yet! I will call tomorrow and see what they say. Also on the oil, it said 0.63 qts to fill it up. The tag on the side said it was shipped empty, but after a little over 0.5 qts, it was running out of the hole. I had it level, but it seemed like it was too much oil. Does it need to get to the engine so it doesn't just fill up the pan? Thanks for any advice.

The engine is filled with oil and test run at the assembly point. When the oil is vacuumed out for attachment to the generator and shipment there is still some oil that remains inside the engine. Thus, your first fill may be less than .63 quarts. If you have filled to the point of it running out the fill plug hole all is well. Do not try to overfill by tilting the engine.

The hole you reference may indeed be rust, but it would be a shock to me. The fuel tanks are pressure tested in a water bath after assembly to see if there are any leaks. The inside of the tank is coated with a thin layer of oil to prevent condensation from causing rust. Frequently what happens in a rough shipment is the petcock hits the engine and cracks the tank. I suspect that is what you may have since your spark plug cap was broken.

In any event, sorry you got one that had rough handling. But, as you have discovered, CPE Service WILL promptly take care of you.

[bmet2000]

I have the model C46540 and I just took it out of the box 2 weeks ago. The plastic spark plug harness was broken and Champion shipped me a new one right away. I installed it today and put gas and oil in it and pulled several times on the cord and noticed gas leaking out. I looked underneath and it appears the tank has a rust hole in it. I haven't even fired it up yet! I will call tomorrow and see what they say. Also on the oil, it said 0.63 qts to fill it up. The tag on the side said it was shipped empty, but after a little over 0.5 qts, it was running out of the hole. I had it level, but it seemed like it was too much oil. Does it need to get to the engine so it doesn't just fill up the pan? Thanks for any advice.

[jasult]

professor95

I was ready to buy the Champion 3500 and now I will wait for the EStart / remote 3500 as I need that much power. I curently have an old Coleman 1850 that I carry along just for coffee pot or what ever when boon-docking. The EStart / remote could be the cats meow and I am a member of both Costco and Sams so i will wait and see.
thanks
Jim

[professor95]

Jim,

The 3500ES/Remote is reported to be ready for shipment to COSTCO with over 3,000 units sitting in the warehouse ready to go. It was shown at the Las Vegas National Hardware Show last fall -- guess COSTCO saw it and liked it. The scuttlebutt is the "ball is in Costco's court" right now to get things moving along. Still no info on pricing. That part is up to Costco.

Just as soon as I can get hold of actual working specs and pricing on the new digital I'll share it here first :).

But, you know if one of the initial outlets for public sale is going to be SAMs the price will be extremely attractive for a 2,000 watt digital. The sale through the "wholesale" clubs is a bittersweet proposition. You must be a member to buy there ($40 per year) but both clubs really test a product like this before committing to sale, so you have a better than average assurance it is not a piece of junk. They also have extremely liberal return policies for their products.

I currently have a 2,000 watt digital I am extremely happy with (Kipor 2,000Ti) but it does not provide enough power for all our RV needs. So, I don't plan on running out and buying a 2,000 watt Champion unless I can parallel both the Kipor and Champion together -- which is not improbable if they are designed like the Honda parallel kits. Now, that would be an interesting side-by-side test, wouldn't it?

I have learned that Champion is one of the more cautious companies about announcing a product in advance (know as Vaporware). You usually don't know about them until they are on the retailer's shelves.

I know Champion recently added a new product development team based in Arkansas! The two guys heading up this team are said to be really top notch engineers with a lot of experience in power equipment design. This product will be their first big test, so we should see just what this new team is capable of by year's end.

[pritch272]

I like it already! Really curious on the price, though.

[Old___Slow]

Well, well,well. What a great day this is ~ I had to endure, but with a happy face:)all the nice (not) posts from years pasted, whenever I even mentioned Champion wanting to remain with Model T's in the digital age. To say the least, this is a happy day. Yes, there will remain a place for the open frame Champions (like mine) and glad to hear also that a NEW 'electric start' model is coming to market soon. Life is good. Wish I can live to see the day when the new 'Yellow and Black' beauties arrive on the market. Maybe a new toy for Old & Slow would be good. Now I gotta be nice to DW for sure.


Now I can look forward to flying my large Yellow and Black Champion flag over my little Yellow and Black genhouse. It may be a limited addition, however. It came as a surprise years ago. Can't keep a old man from doing a little crowing. Ever see a Yellow and Black rooster?

[jasult]

professor95
Nice that they are in the inverter style.
Do you know if the 3500 estart / remote is official as well even though NON inverter style?
If so, the price could be attractive.
DECISIONS !! :@

[MrWizard]

that genny appears a little shorter and more square in the video
I used VLC player to get a snapshot, this is what i got



i love the looks, I hope its as solid as their conventional gennies

should be great, took them long enough to do it.

[professor95]

It has been a long time coming, but now it is official. Champion Power Equipment is entering the digital inverter generator market.

The new unit should be available by August. It is a 2,000 watt genny. It looks like Sam's and Cabelas will be the first retail outlets to get the new digital unit.

This is a new from the ground up generator, not a re-branded clone made by some other Chinese company. It is built by CPE and will be exclusive to their brand.

I guess we will eventually need to create a new thread for 2,000 watt Chinese Inverter/Digital Generator Info. :B

Like the Honda digital, it can be mated with a second unit for 4,000 watts. What is neat is the second unit can be set on top of the first.

No info on price, engine size or dB ratings yet.

I have an 8 second video of the unit that I finally uploaded. Click on the image below. I hope it works! I am out camping and my connection is SLOW.

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:
Floyd,
IMHO, from five years of working with these toys, ANY generator under 5,500 watts will NOT be able to sustain a 15,000 BTU A/C with a locked-in compressor for 12-16 (or more) hours in 100 degree weather without some issue with overheating or damage -- Chinese, Japanese, inverter, synchronous, etc. The load is too great for the cooling design and rising oil temperatures along with temperatures inside the alternator itself. All will rise to dangerous levels -- this is even with the genny sitting outside in open air. Of course, a 5,500 watt open frame genny with a 13 HP engine is just too darn loud for a campground at 77 dBA. Out in the lonely desert, sure -- take a 5,500 if you like.

The Champion 3,500 will run a 15,000 BTU A/C in 85, maybe 90 degree heat for 3-4 hours at continuous compressor load. It is best to set your A/C thermostat a little warmer so the compressor will cycle on and off and give the genny occasional rest breaks.

Just like your MH or TV, going up a long 7% grade in 100 degree weather at WOT when pulling a loaded camper will cause an overheated engine and tranny UNLESS the rig is over sized for the purpose. BTW - this is a good reason to respect tow ratings just like wattage ratings.

As for the 29.5 amps -- the Champion will do it. I have run the test with the genny connected to an adjustable resistance 500 amp carbon pile load cranked down to show 29 plus amps (3,540 watts). But, as I noted, it will NOT sustain it. No matter what the labels say about wattage with a 6.5 HP and 200 or so CC GX style engine figure about 2,800 watts (23.3 amps) as your maximum continuous working load. In hot, hot weather drop it down to 2,400 watts (20 amps). Also, keep in mind inductive loads are more demanding of a generator's power than resistive loads.

Still no clue why your unit shut down with two 1,500 watt heaters (3,000 watt total). Mine will run two 1,500 watt heaters at the same time (resistive load) like a walk in the park. Of course, I'm not running heaters in 100 degree weather! 🙂 As I ventured to say earlier, you were dealing with some other problem or issue that you are not aware of.

Prof,

Great post. Folks who want the 3000w Champion to cool with a 15,000 BTU A/C now know what to expect. My only experience has been with a 13,500 roof top A/C/3000w Champion combo and never on a 100 degree day in the old MH. The Champion C46540 is now in my little genhouse/shop. In that I am no longer able to move about without great pain, it is set up so that I can sit on a stool and due some trials and play with my little Yellow and Black toy, if you want to call it by that name. Having Electric start is sure nice. Yes, I do like to see and hear what it can and will do.:) As you suggested some time ago, I ordered from Ebay the dogbone for the 240v twist lock recp't that has two 120v pigtails. So I have full use of all the AC power the Champion can produce. The 2 1500w heaters were available so are used for a test load. With 2 1500w hearter in use the gen will shut down after a few minutes. However, if I turn one of them down to medium, all is well. So yes, I agree, with my testing, the Champion is good for 2600/2800watts with no problem. For whatever it's worth. What the Champion will do using LPG is another story.