3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

Bluestreak wrote:

joelchappell wrote:
Well I took my Champion back to Costco today. Couldn't deal with it.

The testing I showed earlier with my db meter reading 72 db was flawed. It was 72db unloaded. It read nearly 80db under load. I can't believe it. I tried everything.

The noise was a clatter. The exhaust was quiet. I am going to have to do something else I guess. I hope you others that are getting the new Champion will post here and tell us how yours is. Maybe mine had something wrong with it?

That's 2. The Lifan was quiet, but had been damaged in shipping (or something) and I can't find another one with electric start.

I am really down about this. It ran great. The remote start was fantastic. But it was just so loud.

Please weigh in with additional info as you all receive yours.

Thanks.

Joel, what a drag!

I hope others have a better experience. I ultimately decided that I needed ease of use over power and placed an order for a Honeywell 2000i.

(I have a warm spot in my heart for old type 2's...I had a '67 camper for many years and then a '71 camper for a couple...good luck with yours!)

Joel,

I have searched like crazy to understand, without the use of the new Champion for the reason of the difference in noise levels of the Lifan and the new Champion. You state 'the exhaust seemed quiet (the Champion) as did the Lifan. This could be the reason? The new Champion has a 'TEED pipe (from the manifold) running down to what has been described as a breather for the CAT' converter inside the muffler. So perhaps the noise (clatter) you were hearing came from that breather. Perhaps like a echo chamber. If you were to remove the manifold are run the gen, WOW, what a LOUD noise. Like straight pipes. Guess this EPA thing is something will have to learn to live with. So be it. Can't find in the online Owner's Manual any stated dbA rating for the new Champ, perhaps I missed it? But now, back at the ranch.

To fill your need of a gen. You were right to believe the Champion Brand. Or badge. My person experience with both the product and CS has been, top of the line. I was just one of many asking for this new gen knowing Champion to be 'top notch' But, the noise you describe is worrisome. Have you found another possibility?

On the remote. I did find in the online Manual for the new Champ. the same instructions as most all other mfg for operation of a remote. Must remove all load before and after use of the gen. That is standard. Through the many years of RV use, this was the best practice. Unload the gen, run gen for a few minutes for the engine to cool down. This would be much more easy with the new Champ if they had the toggle breakers as you find on the DuroPower. If shutting down the gen outside. With my C46540 I can remove the load by placing the 120v/240v switch in the center position. (OFF noload)

Let us hear from you.

Floyd

[jasult]

shakerdude wrote:

W8NONU wrote:
It took 7 days to go fromm California to Maryland.

Are you in Canada?

Yes and unfortunately nothing like this even comes close to the same price in Canada. Costco Canada did have the non electric start version for around $300 but they no longer carry them.

I live far enough south that I just get things shipped to the storage place on the otherside of the border and zip down to pick it up.

I am torn between this the champion electric start for $380 or the Lifan 3500w storm for $250 is the electric start worth $130? I read a good post about the Lifan earlier this thread.

Tractor supply had the non e start for 279. last week

[shakerdude]

W8NONU wrote:
It took 7 days to go fromm California to Maryland.

Are you in Canada?

Yes and unfortunately nothing like this even comes close to the same price in Canada. Costco Canada did have the non electric start version for around $300 but they no longer carry them.

I live far enough south that I just get things shipped to the storage place on the otherside of the border and zip down to pick it up.

I am torn between this the champion electric start for $380 or the Lifan 3500w storm for $250 is the electric start worth $130? I read a good post about the Lifan earlier this thread.

[shakerdude]

Tony F. wrote:
Hey guys,

I ordered my Champion 45638 (remote start 3000w) on the 12th, and it came yesterday. I wasted no time assembling it. It comes with a quick guide for assembly that is pretty lousy. There are three different sets of nuts and bolts, all different lengths, and no instructions as to which go where. Not hard to figure out. The quick guide also says nothing about terminating the battery, but the full manual does. My only other complaint is that the box does too little to protect the generator. My ground terminal was bent, as well as the negative box terminal of the battery. Both correctable.

Built quality seems good. One of the axle brackets was apparently welded (or bent) slightly off true, resulting in the wheel being ever so slightly tilted. Otherwise I can find nothing wrong.

Be careful adding a full 0.63qt of oil as the manual says. They apparently don't drain the factory oil completely, because I wound up with a spill. I think 0.5 is probably enough.

I was able to run my 13.5kBTU AC, microwave, and my 20" CRT TV all at the same time. No problems.

As for noise, it is definitely quieter that any contractor grade generator I have used. While at idle, my wife and I were able to stand on either side of it and have a normal volume conversation. Once I had it loaded down, it was too loud to speak normally, but was still quieter than the generator I usually borrow, but louder than the Honda eu3000i I have used.

I did not test the distance of the remote, but it did work just fine starting and stopping it from inside my trailer with the generator about 5 feet away. The antenna is a short piece of white wire behind the name plate sticking out of the control box. I talked to Tech Support, and was told lengthening it would be fine. They were limited by FCC regulations, but I could do what I wanted.

One more time, I want to clarify that this is not a Chinese generator in the strictest sense. Champion is a US company, with local engineering, QC, and tech support. They own the factory in China, as opposed to contracting with a factory. In other words, the only thing "Chinese" about this generator is the actual assembly labor. Once again, no, I do not work for them. I just feel compelled to clear up the misconception.

I am thrilled with this thing. So many features for so cheap. You gotta love it!

Thanks for your help That was the information I was looking for.

[Old___Slow]

Tony F. wrote:
Hey guys,

Snip:

One more time, I want to clarify that this is not a Chinese generator in the strictest sense. Champion is a US company, with local engineering, QC, and tech support. They own the factory in China, as opposed to contracting with a factory. In other words, the only thing "Chinese" about this generator is the actual assembly labor. Once again, no, I do not work for them. I just feel compelled to clear up the misconception.

!

Hmmm,

Two questions:

#1 How many American workers have I helped support by buying the Champion C46540 I own. The building shown on the tech page with the Champion name seems to indecate perhaps a large amount. Perhaps there are other locations of the American Champion Power Equipment Company that may work in other locations? I would like to believe I have helped to put food on many American family tables.

#2 And "the only thing Chinese is the assembly labor" statement. Maybe you could shed more light on that statement. I'm sure many of us are quite interested to know all the facts about 'Champion Power Equipment' I know for sure CPE will be vary responsive to all your questions.

Floyd

[professor95]

W8NONU wrote:
Professor,

Thanks for the analysis. I look forward to the complete review. What's your plans for the new toy?

I have 11,717 pounds on a pair of 6,000 pound axles. With the washer/dryer, generator and batteries in the front of the FW I have about 700 added pounds.

I hate to do it but I plan on taking the generator I converted to LPG out of the FW. I have all ready shed all but two batteries.

The new genny will go on the back of the Volvo - locked down and with a rain/basic sound cover. Battery bank is now in the Volvo. Power for the camper will tether from the Volvo allowing me to remove about 500# from the camper and lighten the axle loading.

If the Volvo must leave the camper, I can always unload the genny (after I install my HF crane like the one in my PU to load and unload.)

I have the portable Kipor 2000Ti that goes with us as well.

[professor95]

Wrace wrote:
My wife and son gave me a Honda 2000i for fathers day a couple days ago and I think the Honda will be a better match for our RV application, not to mention it will greatly simplify the logistics of storing, loading, moving, and using the generators for the various applications.

I frequently use my Kipor 2000Ti over the Champion for the same reasons. The Kipor is pretty much a match of the Honda you have. But, to run the 15K BTU air conditioner I would need TWO Kipors with a parallel kit. That's when the Champion becomes the main power source.

[Tony_F_]

Hey guys,

I ordered my Champion 45638 (remote start 3000w) on the 12th, and it came yesterday. I wasted no time assembling it. It comes with a quick guide for assembly that is pretty lousy. There are three different sets of nuts and bolts, all different lengths, and no instructions as to which go where. Not hard to figure out. The quick guide also says nothing about terminating the battery, but the full manual does. My only other complaint is that the box does too little to protect the generator. My ground terminal was bent, as well as the negative box terminal of the battery. Both correctable.

Built quality seems good. One of the axle brackets was apparently welded (or bent) slightly off true, resulting in the wheel being ever so slightly tilted. Otherwise I can find nothing wrong.

Be careful adding a full 0.63qt of oil as the manual says. They apparently don't drain the factory oil completely, because I wound up with a spill. I think 0.5 is probably enough.

I was able to run my 13.5kBTU AC, microwave, and my 20" CRT TV all at the same time. No problems.

As for noise, it is definitely quieter that any contractor grade generator I have used. While at idle, my wife and I were able to stand on either side of it and have a normal volume conversation. Once I had it loaded down, it was too loud to speak normally, but was still quieter than the generator I usually borrow, but louder than the Honda eu3000i I have used.

I did not test the distance of the remote, but it did work just fine starting and stopping it from inside my trailer with the generator about 5 feet away. The antenna is a short piece of white wire behind the name plate sticking out of the control box. I talked to Tech Support, and was told lengthening it would be fine. They were limited by FCC regulations, but I could do what I wanted.

One more time, I want to clarify that this is not a Chinese generator in the strictest sense. Champion is a US company, with local engineering, QC, and tech support. They own the factory in China, as opposed to contracting with a factory. In other words, the only thing "Chinese" about this generator is the actual assembly labor. Once again, no, I do not work for them. I just feel compelled to clear up the misconception.

I am thrilled with this thing. So many features for so cheap. You gotta love it!

[MrWizard]

NOT an echo chamber !
The proff stated very clearly, that it is the air intake for the catalytic converter inside the muffler,
There might be a difference in sound levels due to the change in the exhaust design,
But it AN'T NO echo chamber
In this age of competition, no mfg is going to deliberately add a sound increasing echo chamber

[Wrace]

professor95 wrote:

It's like this...... Can't say I have been 100% but I have tried to be nice and have worked to make new posters on this thread feel welcome and comfortable (as have others).

Don't think that has gone unnoticed. I am impressed with the participants of this thread and the fact that it doesn't spiral down into the abyss of 'your generator is too loud, my generator is ok' arguments.

In my case, with the help of the folks on this thread I have tried to make the champion work for multiple applications, one of which is use with the rv for non-hookup camping. The champion is a great generator and a great value, and will remain in use for home power outages and on our rural farm property where we are clearing land and building a home eventually. My wife and son gave me a Honda 2000i for fathers day a couple days ago and I think the Honda will be a better match for our RV application, not to mention it will greatly simplify the logistics of storing, loading, moving, and using the generators for the various applications.

At the risk of sounding too sappy, I am glad we live in a period of time when there are many options for generators, and technology is making the products better and better. Further, threads like this exist with quality participation that can dramatically shorten peoples learning curve.

[Bluestreak]

And tests done with two tripods and with small, fired-up animals running around are always the best!:B

[professor95]

Bluestreak wrote:
Nice work, Randy!!!

(was your circle actually 14 meters across (so a diameter of 14m and a radius of 7m?):)

Yes - I did learn the difference in Geometry class years ago. 🙂

[Old___Slow]

Oweing to the fact a request was made from this end, for Champion to move on past the old age into the age of Electric Start/Remote Control, I'm disappointed in what I see. The Champion C46540 in my genhouse has the Electric Start added. I look forward to being able to add the Remote control, I believe. a new start up outlet is to offer along with the new 'Supergen/gentent'? Maybe they will have the answer to lowering the noise level. Personally I have had an ongoing project to lower the noise from my must loved C46540. I had even thought of ordering the new gen to go with the new enclosure in the shop using the 'quiet board' from HD. But, looking at the picture posted of the new gen and the muffler, something is a big question:S The new gen has a new muffler system. If one is to look close, you will see how they have TIED off from the manifold down to what looks to be a 'echo chamber':h It's the silver looking thing. Maybe this is the difference in noise level we are hearing about.?? Is Champion saying this new gen has the same noise level as the old models? What does the new Owner's Manual say?

[Bluestreak]

Nice work, Randy!!!

You have what looks like a fine place to do generator testing, and I'm sure the house is nice too!

I look forward to your load testing with the box in place.

(was your circle actually 14 meters across (so a diameter of 14m and a radius of 7m?):)

[W8NONU]

It took 7 days to go fromm California to Maryland.

Are you in Canada?