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3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy


For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at โ€œcloningโ€ reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a โ€œrunningโ€ display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. โ€œSupposedlyโ€ Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for โ€œabove average qualityโ€ Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an โ€œavailability listingโ€.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings โ€“ most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is โ€œreasonablyโ€ quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a โ€œlook alikeโ€ eng...






















Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.
10,029 REPLIES 10,029

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
quabillion wrote:

(snip)
This apparent power must be produced and transmitted to the load in the conventional fashion, and is subject to the usual distributed losses in the production and transmission processes.


So, the red wire goes where on the battery?
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
1
bobandcat wrote:
Altitude is by far the larger factor in output loss. This is due to the reduction of available oxygen used in combustion. The temperature also reduces the density of the air and to a lesser extent than altitude, also reduces the available oxygen. By the way, Onan is my source of the info regarding power reduction for altitude and temperature.


Onan is not completely correct. At least, they way they state it leaves out some important information.

While it is true that there is a reduction in oxygen, it is not because there is any less oxygen available in the atmosphere. Actually, it is because there is less atmospheric pressure.

At sea level, we use a reading of 30 inches of mercury (30 in Hg) as a "noninal" atmospheric pressure (round numbers, gentlemen). As we increase elevation each 1,000 feet we see a reduction in atmospheric pressure by 1 in Hg. Thus, at 5,000 feet, pressure would be 25" Hg.

Since the ratings for internal combustion engines are "standardized" at sea level, any increase in altitude causes a drop in pressure to force air/fuel into the engine and a drop in absolute manifold pressure for the engine. I guess that is where Onan comes up with the explaination of less oxygen.

Conversley, if we go below sea level or barometric pressure should rise due to a weather front, the available power of an internal combustion engine would rise with the atmospheric pressure. I guess we could call this "nature's supercharger?"

Elevation also has a major impact on the temperature water boils and baking cookies :).
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

bobandcat
Explorer
Explorer
Its been 40 years since I have used those AC equations. As an ME, I just use the simple W=VA, even if its not correct. I guess that I should have used a resistive load only for my testing so that I wouldn't have a power factor issue.

Both Sal and Ryan are thinking in AC and I'm trying to use a simple DC calculation.
Bob and Cathy
2002 Montana 3655FL
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison
PullRite 16k Superglide

Wgeorge11
Explorer
Explorer
Impressive! But certainly far beyond my limited comprehension of transpired excrement. As long as the power output is reliable and equal to my simple needs for occasional AC/MW/battery charging, I'm as happy as a dog rolling in it.
Traveling companion

quabillion
Explorer
Explorer
bobandcat wrote:


When I conducted the test at 2600VA (V*A=W),



Definition and calculation

AC power flow has the three components: real power (P), measured in watts (W); apparent power (S), measured in volt-amperes (VA); and reactive power (Q), measured in reactive volt-amperes (VAr).

The power factor is defined as:



In the case of a perfectly sinusoidal waveform, P, Q and S can be expressed as vectors that form a vector triangle such that:



If ? is the phase angle between the current and voltage, then the power factor is equal to , and:


Since the units are consistent, the power factor is by definition a dimensionless number between 0 and 1. When power factor is equal to 0, the energy flow is entirely reactive, and stored energy in the load returns to the source on each cycle. When the power factor is 1, all the energy supplied by the source is consumed by the load. Power factors are usually stated as "leading" or "lagging" to show the sign of the phase angle.

If a purely resistive load is connected to a power supply, current and voltage will change polarity in step, the power factor will be unity (1), and the electrical energy flows in a single direction across the network in each cycle. Inductive loads such as transformers and motors (any type of wound coil) consume reactive power with current waveform lagging the voltage. Capacitive loads such as capacitor banks or buried cable generate reactive power with current phase leading the voltage. Both types of loads will absorb energy during part of the AC cycle, which is stored in the device's magnetic or electric field, only to return this energy back to the source during the rest of the cycle.

For example, to get 1 kW of real power, if the power factor is unity, 1 kVA of apparent power needs to be transferred (1 kW รท 1 = 1 kVA). At low values of power factor, more apparent power needs to be transferred to get the same real power. To get 1 kW of real power at 0.2 power factor, 5 kVA of apparent power needs to be transferred (1 kW รท 0.2 = 5 kVA). This apparent power must be produced and transmitted to the load in the conventional fashion, and is subject to the usual distributed losses in the production and transmission processes.
I spend every day of my life trying to understand that other people in this world do things differently than I do.

bobandcat
Explorer
Explorer
Salvo wrote:


I'm really not sure the 100F ambient was the cause of your voltage drop at 2600W. My guess you're exceeding the 3500 VA limit.

Is the 2% reduction per 10 F increase over 85 F a typo? That would mean at 105 F, the power is reduced to 0.96 * 3500 = 3360 VA. That's not much of a reduction.

If correct, your gen at 100V should still be able to handle 3360 VA. Another reason to believe it's a VA and not temp issue.

From your data I see it's important to power the fan from the battery, and not from any gen power (12V or 120V) source. Do you have a manual switch to turn fan on and off?

I'm not sure what causes the gen to reduce power at altitude. Is it a lack of oxygen? What about temperature, is there electronics involved to fold back power?

Sal


When I conducted the test at 2600VA (V*A=W), the enclosure temperature and engine temperature apparently reached a critical level that caused the engine to stumble and lose RPM. One person suggested that the fuel in the carburator started to boil.

These units are advertised at 3500W. Advertisers tend to stretch or distort reality a bit. Generator-guy, who provided some in depth testing about a year ago, said that his unit produced 3300W at 50 degrees F at about sea level. If I reduced his output by 3.5% per 1000 ft. elevation and 2% per 10 degree F temperature rise, I should have a max of about 2850W. That's close to my measurement of 2900W using my inexpensive measurement equipment. Both Professor Randy and I have voiced our opinions in the past that these generators should be limited to 2800W continuous output to insure a reasonably long service life. I would even further reduce that recommendation at higher ambient temps to protect the genhead wiring. I personally try to stay closer to 2000W continuous output at high ambients. There is also a temperature sensor that shuts down the engine if the enclosure temp reaches 160 degrees.

You mentioned running at 100V. I get uncomfortable if my voltage drops below 110V. My generator produces a pretty steady 120V until it gets close to its max output.

Altitude is by far the larger factor in output loss. This is due to the reduction of available oxygen used in combustion. The temperature also reduces the density of the air and to a lesser extent than altitude, also reduces the available oxygen. By the way, Onan is my source of the info regarding power reduction for altitude and temperature.

Both of my 120V fans together use about 100W of generator output. I don't mind losing that much output for good cooling. The fans run continuously while the generator is operating and use a timer to shut off automatically after the cool-down period. When my generator is shut down, the fans continue to run for 15 minutes using my inverter and 12V battery for power. Fifteen minutes of fan time cools the enclosure down to around 10-15 degrees above the ambient temp.
Bob and Cathy
2002 Montana 3655FL
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison
PullRite 16k Superglide

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Sal,

If you will look on Brad's thread you will see my old MH compartment, it looked somewhat like yours. A question then a comment. First, do you find road dirt and water to be a problem by leaving your genset in the location you show? Now the comment. Bill h, another poster made a suggestion, (it could have come from others also) place a pc of carpet on the ground under your genny (in it's location) and you might find some nice sound reduction. If you go to Brad's thread you will find a strong belief in carpet to reduce sound. I used Flame-x and used the torch test. It passed. We only tried to use all the suggestion from this thread. Prof, knows his stuff. The idea of sound reduction had it's begining with Prof' trying different baffle arrangements on his old Elim. At least that's where I got the idea.

When I came to this thread, it was a no no to use a factory genset compartment for a portable. I was a rebal. I continue to believe the fuel tank needs to be separated from the genny. Just me, however. Or the genny used like MRWizard and yourself, with the door open.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
bobandcat wrote:
Professor Randy's recommendation of not using the generator over 2400 watts near 100 degrees ambient was validated by my tests (2200 watts was OK, 2600 watts was not OK). I have set my limit closer to 2000 watts. That allows me to run my AC continuously with short excursions at higher loads to run the microwave for a couple of minutes.

By the way, generator manufacturer state that power output is reduced 3.5% per 1000 ft. elevation and 2% per 10 degree F temperature rise from a baseline of 85 degrees at sea level. Maximum generator output will not be the same everyday for everyone. It will be dependent on the output reductions noted above.

I sometimes camp near sea level and also as high as 9-10,000 ft elevation. My summer ambient temp can be as high as 110-120 degrees or as low as the 20's in the winter. These extremes, especially altitude, can change the generator output by as much as about 1000 watts.


I'm really not sure the 100F ambient was the cause of your voltage drop at 2600W. My guess you're exceeding the 3500 VA limit.

Is the 2% reduction per 10 F increase over 85 F a typo? That would mean at 105 F, the power is reduced to 0.96 * 3500 = 3360 VA. That's not much of a reduction.

If correct, your gen at 100V should still be able to handle 3360 VA. Another reason to believe it's a VA and not temp issue.

I like your enclosure. Very resourceful!

From your data I see it's important to power the fan from the battery, and not from any gen power (12V or 120V) source. Do you have a manual switch to turn fan on and off?

Even though it's a lot of work, I'm leading towards adding an active ventilation system (fan) on my gen. Has anybody looked at the consequences of dumping the hot air under the MH's chassis? It sure doesn't help keeping the MH cool in those 100 deg days.

I'm not sure what causes the gen to reduce power at altitude. Is it a lack of oxygen? What about temperature, is there electronics involved to fold back power?

Sal

Old___Slow
Explorer
Explorer
Well Prof,

I'm glad to see you agree with many of my long ago posts. Cooling first then sound reduction. Your new thought on air reversal might? work. It's cool weather now so I have been running without the shroud. Lot's of noise coming from the engine fan and shroud! The shroud needs noise damping. FWIW there are two ways to go about cooling. I found this from the design by Brad for my old MH factory genset compartment. It's possible to cool the genny by enclosing without the separate air intake for the engine and genhead. Just need proper controled air flow with plenty of air flow. I used a Procomp 1150 cfm 12v/80w fan pulling the heated air from the enclosure just below the genhead air exhaust. Brad said the curved blades on the fan reduce the noise from the fan. I found on one enclosure I tried, the dbA was to high by using the direct air flow shround to the engine and genhead. On Brad's compartment the air intake comes from adjoining compartments, helping reduce the noise coming from the two air intake shrouds. He also padded the air intakes. Now, what's nice about Bob's enclosure I see, is this. His shounds are not direct out, but at 90 degrees. I can't see but they may also may be padded to reduce noise. Just one more thing. To reduce the noise the most, I found sound suppression is helped by using material I bought at Pepboys in the bottom. OH, (ha) just one more thing. Bob raised the fuel tank. I used his idea for great results. Two things happened. Safety and noise reduction. All IMHO.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
bobandcat wrote:
The Professor Randy's comment about not using the generator over 2400 watts near 100 degrees ambient was validated by my tests (2200 watts was OK, 2600 watts was not OK).


It is comforting to learn we reached the same conclusion even if it was by different paths.

I'm not sure why I did not pay closer attention when you made the original posting of the graphs in October. I guess I must have been in La La Land at the time with all of the projects I was planning for the new fifth wheel. I am pleased to see the temperatures you recorded are as low as they are โ€“ especially with a 98 degree F outside temperature. Obviously your air ducting and air flow paths are optimum for the design of the Chinese open frame genny. There are a lot of similarities with what you, Brad and I did to increase air flow through the shroud fan intake and around the cylinder so that the heated air can be pulled out and away from the recirculation path. A lot of things make more sense to me now than originally. The first thing to design for an enclosure is not sound reduction, but adequate cooling. Once that is accomplished, tuning of the enclosure to reduce noise can be completed. Originally, I was doing the sound reduction design first and letting cooling be secondary โ€“ a big mistake!

I have been giving a lot of thought to yet another design that would remove the fan blades from the engine side of the generator head so that I can reverse the air flow thru the generator head and have it all come out the end where the AVR is mounted. This would create a single air path like the Honda and Kipor. There would be an additional ducted air intake at the current lower middle exit point for the generator head, and a heat shield around the muffler with air vents for the cooling air to enter near the manifold. The AVR would be moved to a cooler spot and perhaps even mounted on a heavy aluminum heat sink. The exhaust fan would need to be something like you are using with the capability of creating a vacuum without cavitation of the blades. The squirrel cage or scroll fans are great for that purpose.

OK, enough rambling and babble for tonight. Time to get some sleep.
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

bobandcat
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:


Please repost the temperature graphs. I remember them, but do not know where they are.


Here is the temp graph that I posted in early October @ a 2200 watt load.



This picture shows an overview of the enclosure setup.



If you go back to my original post, there is test data at a 2600 watt load that resulted in the engine/generator stumbling after 30 minutes of operation.

The second test was completed at an electrical load of 2200 watts. It was terminated after temps were stable for 4 consecutive readings taken at 5-minute intervals. Total test time was 45 minutes under load and 15 minutes for cool down with the engine off and the enclosure cooling fans running. The stabilized engine air, genhead air and exiting air temperatures were 156, 145 and 152 degrees respectively measured in the same locations as the first test.

Professor Randy's recommendation of not using the generator over 2400 watts near 100 degrees ambient was validated by my tests (2200 watts was OK, 2600 watts was not OK). I have set my limit closer to 2000 watts. That allows me to run my AC continuously with short excursions at higher loads to run the microwave for a couple of minutes.

By the way, generator manufacturer state that power output is reduced 3.5% per 1000 ft. elevation and 2% per 10 degree F temperature rise from a baseline of 85 degrees at sea level. Maximum generator output will not be the same everyday for everyone. It will be dependent on the output reductions noted above.

I sometimes camp near sea level and also as high as 9-10,000 ft elevation. My summer ambient temp can be as high as 110-120 degrees or as low as the 20's in the winter. These extremes, especially altitude, can change the generator output by as much as about 1000 watts.
Bob and Cathy
2002 Montana 3655FL
2006 Chevy 2500HD Duramax/Allison
PullRite 16k Superglide

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
professor95 wrote:

While your calculations may appear accurate, at higher ambient temperatures the ability to remove heat from the generator is reduced. Thus, it will run even hotter than your calculations at 100 degrees F outside.

That's not correct. My measurement made at 54 F directly scales to any other ambient temperature.

Have you ever seen the equation to calculate the junction temperature of say a transistor?

Tj = P * theta + Ta

Tj is the junction temp, P is the power dissipation, theta is the thermal impedance between the junction and ambient, and Ta is the ambient temp.

We can use the same equation to describe our gen. Instead of junction temp, we have some selected location on the gen. The equation shows if Ta is increased by 30F, the junction temp is also increased by 30F.

You don't need to wait till it gets to be 100F outside to to figure out the gen temp at 100 ambient.

BTW, after much searching I found Bob&cat temp data. His measured temps at 100 F ambient are very similar to my projected temps at 100.


So, at 100 dgrees you should back off on power (load) at least 30%, or to no more than 2,450 watts for a 3,500 watt rated genny.

Unfortunately that's about the only time I would consider using my AC.

BTW, you may find it interesting that the hottest temperatures I recorded are after the gen is turned off.

Over by the cast AL engine head, while it's running under 1500W load T=118F. After gen stops, temp increases to 172F. That's at 54F ambient. If it were 100 outside, the gen will get up to 218 F.

There's a problem with the thermal switch. It will do fine while the gen is running. But when gen is turned off, temperatures rise and the thermal switch could trip. It will take a while to reset itself. During that time we won't be able to start the gen.


On the fuel tank..... most all of these gennys, my Kipor included, must have a vented cap to work. If there is no vent, gas flow will stop. On the Chinese 3,000 watt class open frame models the tank WILL leak if sloshed around. The fix is to NOT fill it completely full so the baffel in the tank neck will keep fuel from splashing out. On my Kipor, there is a open and closed valve for the cap vent. Thus, it can be sealed for transport.


Boy, that sounds scary. I've been using my gen for almost 2 years. I haven't used it much, as I only have 50 hrs on it. But I never smelled gas until a few months ago. I took the gas tank to the Yamaha service shop. They could have replaced the rubber gasket that fits inside the cap, but instead they ordered a new $18 gas cap. My gasket is in perfect condition. It just didn't appear there was enough pressure between the gasket and the tank lip.

Sal

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
Our local Kroger grocery store is now in the Chinese generator business. I noted today that they had about a dozen 3,500 watt All-Power models with the outlets in the end of the generator "on sale" for $349.95. If you are 55 or older and buy one on Tuesday the price would be $332.45. That would also give you 332 points redeamable for 3 full fill-ups of fuel for 10 cents a gallon off.

Would you like paper or plastic?
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

professor95
Explorer
Explorer
quabillion wrote:
Say professor, I thought that 30A service used #10 AWG.

You said #12 in you previous post, and I am wondering if it is a typo, or you know something I dont ๐Ÿ™‚


I expected that. I just did not know who would be the first to respond.

If you are using 2 feet or less of copper wire, you can safely use the #12 AWG, saving you the problem of getting #10 to fit the duplex screws and possibly breaking the outlet in the process. Remember, it is a combination of distance and gauge. The longer the distance, the larger the gauge. For really short pieces like inside the generator there is no need to run #10 AWG wire. In fact, you wonโ€™t find anything larger than #14 in there as it comes from the factory.

For the folks that want numbers, 2 feet of #12 wire will be .00324 ohms, 2 feet of #10 wire will be .00204 ohms. Voltage drop on 2' of the #12 wire will be .0972 volts and on the #10 wire .0612 volts, a difference of .036 volts (36/1000th of a volt). That accounts for less than 1/10 of one degree F for the rise in wire temperature between the two.

Hope this does not start a deluge of NEC arguments! :B
Professor Randy T. Agee & Nancy Agee. Also Oscar, the totally ruined Dachshund.
2009 Cedar Creek 5th Wheel - 2004 Volvo VNL670 class 8 MotorHome conversion as toter.
Turbocharged, 12L, 465 HP and 1,800 ft. Lbs. of torque.

quabillion
Explorer
Explorer
Say professor, I thought that 30A service used #10 AWG.

You said #12 in you previous post, and I am wondering if it is a typo, or you know something I dont ๐Ÿ™‚
I spend every day of my life trying to understand that other people in this world do things differently than I do.