3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[pritch272]

bmet2000 wrote:
So where is the cheapest place to get a Champion C46540? (I see that I missed the BIG rebates earlier...)

I gave up trying to save a few dollars, just went and bought from TSC for $299 and $49 for the 4 year extended.

[bmet2000]

So where is the cheapest place to get a Champion C46540? (I see that I missed the BIG rebates earlier...)

[Old___Slow]

WaltinColo wrote:

Wgeorge11 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:


I am (WGERORE11 used to say) no 'lectrian. Say, where is he, I miss him.

Floyd

I'M STILL HERE! Lurking, listening, and learning to live sans the echo of my own voice. Keeping one's mouth shut in this environment is difficult, especially when the "one" has so many opinions. Last time I had something profound to present, I was dissuaded by the moderator god who reigns over this thread and who zapped my best effort into oblivion. Never really did know why. But since then Mr Wizard, WaltinColo and others have ably carried the torch of truthiness.

I tip my hat to you, sir. :W:B

Truthiness seems to be directed to someone? If the honor goes to me, well ok, so be it. Carry that torch of truthiness. MrWizard and WaltinColo must be correct. Perhaps, I need to take five.

Floyd

[professor95]

walkers2rad wrote:
I also tried hooking up the snap on digital tach and advance timing light and tho I figured that it would not be accurate with a single as opposed to a 4 6 or 8 cyl. (somehow it does that automaticly) I am not sure if dividing the reading by any of those is very accurate either. I was showing 6300 rpm in economy mode and 9600 rpm with the economy off.

Ray

Keep in mind you have a "waste spark" on the exhaust stroke. Thus, if your counts are accurate, you would divide your readings by two. That would equal 3,150 and 4,800, which sounds about right.

[WaltinColo]

Wgeorge11 wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:


I am (WGERORE11 used to say) no 'lectrian. Say, where is he, I miss him.

Floyd

I'M STILL HERE! Lurking, listening, and learning to live sans the echo of my own voice. Keeping one's mouth shut in this environment is difficult, especially when the "one" has so many opinions. Last time I had something profound to present, I was dissuaded by the moderator god who reigns over this thread and who zapped my best effort into oblivion. Never really did know why. But since then Mr Wizard, WaltinColo and others have ably carried the torch of truthiness.

I tip my hat to you, sir. :W:B

[Matthew_B]

professor95 wrote:

Matthew_B wrote:
Yes, there is no voltage at that point, but the current is determined by the load. The current will only be zero if the load is resistive. Add an inductive load, and the current will go through zero after the voltage zero.

You are very observant and obviously know something about inductive circuits.

But, keep in mind that what I posted was suppose to be a simple explaination of how a sine wave is created, not a lesson on RLC circuits.

Last time I got a check for my work (postings) on this forum, RV.net forgot to sign it. :S Please feel free to expand on the discussion and related theory if you are so inclined.

I hesitated to say anything, but at the same time it's possibly worth having people know that while the voltage should be a sine wave, the current can be different, both in phase and wave shape. One of those times where it's a challenge to match depth vs. understandability.

You've added a whole lot to the thread, so please keep it up!

[walkers2rad]

A follow up as I asked the seller what the digital box replacement cost would be and here is the reply....
I dont believe it, almost want to send the money just to see what I get!
Told him to send me as many air filters and spark plugs as he could for my credit for not having the RV plug in.

"we can credit you 20 dollars or we can send you an air filter and 2 spark plugs and we will pay for shipping.

please let me know what you want.

a digital box is about 35 dollars with shipping."

I also tried hooking up the snap on digital tach and advance timing light and tho I figured that it would not be accurate with a single as opposed to a 4 6 or 8 cyl. (somehow it does that automaticly) I am not sure if dividing the reading by any of those is very accurate either. I was showing 6300 rpm in economy mode and 9600 rpm with the economy off.

Ray

[MrWizard]

its a good picture, just not one easy for NON-techs to visualize

the only difference i would have made is putting is starting the arrows at the '0' crossing point, the start of a 'sine wave' picture,

zero , 'peak-90', zero-180, 'low-peak-270', zero-360 , would make the wave visualization easier for those NOT used to looking at scope traces

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:

professor95 wrote:

It was the best drawing I had available at the time. Maybe posting that drawing as an example was a mistake?

FWIW, IMHO, your post was spot on, at no time in the discussion of electricity have I ever heard the sinusoidal wave of alternating current ever referred to as a "cosine" wave, all just say "sine" wave. A phase relationship is a phase relationship, no matter where in the cycle you look at it.

I think your posts are a great source of information. I've forgotten a lot over the years, and your posts are very beneficial, so keep them up!

Thank you. Every once in a while it is nice to get an "Atta Boy" response.

Incidentally, I consider Toprudder a good forum friend and respect his knowledge and expertise. He is, in effect, my unofficial proof-reader. I know he will critique anything I post - and I expect him to! I enjoy the feedback. He keeps me on my toes 🙂 Additionally, if I get stumped on something, he is one of the first I send an e-mail to for help. We are fortunate to have him among our regular readers/contributors.

[Old___Slow]

Wow, this is some pretty deep stuff. Stuff? I'm a novice, remember. Nerds always agree?

Wgeorge11,

I read the post that you reference as being sent to never never land as it never was. BUT, I read it first. It was the stuff made by legends, on 3000w Chinese Gensets Info' You Sir, are amazin' Crank the genny and give us folks some 'light stuff' or? maybe some good humor. I like your slidders. Good for the soul.

Floyd

[pritch272]

professor95 wrote:

It was the best drawing I had available at the time. Maybe posting that drawing as an example was a mistake?

FWIW, IMHO, your post was spot on, at no time in the discussion of electricity have I ever heard the sinusoidal wave of alternating current ever referred to as a "cosine" wave, all just say "sine" wave. A phase relationship is a phase relationship, no matter where in the cycle you look at it.

I think your posts are a great source of information. I've forgotten a lot over the years, and your posts are very beneficial, so keep them up!

[professor95]

toprudder wrote:

professor95 wrote:
But, keep in mind that what I posted was suppose to be a simple explaination of how a sine wave is created, not a lesson on RLC circuits.

A sine wave would start 0 degrees at the zero crossing. So, what you described was actually a cosine wave. :B

I know that, Bob. Which is the reason I included the following in the original text:

(Oh, for those who want to see zero degrees start at a zero crossing point - I moved it up to coinside with the drawing. It is still 360 degrees no matter where we start as long as we have a full cycle or period.)

It was the best drawing I had available at the time. Maybe posting that drawing as an example was a mistake?

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
But, keep in mind that what I posted was suppose to be a simple explaination of how a sine wave is created, not a lesson on RLC circuits.

A sine wave would start 0 degrees at the zero crossing. So, what you described was actually a cosine wave. :B

[MrWizard]

I think... you will find your company bought those at Home Depot or Lowes, yes they are mfg by champion for them, to ordered specs, and HD has their own service center should you have any problems with it,

the electrical specs of the genny head and the engine specs should be identical to the yellow 5000watt model, the receptacle arrangement is per HD's order specs

i am NOT sure, about the 'neutral bonding' issue, on that model neutral might be bonded to the frame like the canadian models, something I do not like, that has proven to be unsafe, on portable gensets connected to RV's and NOT fasten to an 8ft earth ground.

it will be reliable, just as other cpe models have proven to be reliable

[tvman44]

cmg3500 wrote:
I've folling this topic on this forum for a few years now.I have a WEN Power PRO 3000/3500 from Pep Boys.It works great.I just got power yeaterday(monday 9/8/08),after having it go out last monday @ aroung 8am when Gustav began to come through.I've put some hours on the little gen,with out any problems.the main thing I do is keep my oil changed.One day I ran it for 18 hours straight.
I have a question I hope someone can help me with. The company I work for was giving the employees Champion generators after the storm hit.
So I got me one.It is Black in color,11 HP engine,& is 5000 watts cont.,& 6000 peak.The problem is I can't find any info on the internet about this generator.I looked at Champions web site,& it is identical to some of the yellow ones of the same size of this one,but it is not listed anywhere it is a Champion -CPE power station- model # 40046. If anyone has ,or knows anywhere I can get some info on the net about this unit please let me know.
Thanks
0)

E_Mail Champion I am sure they will help you. They are very good about that.