3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Old___Slow]

jlaustin wrote:
I've pretty much finalized the remote start, LPG conversion, primer, microvac switch/propane solenoid cut-off on my DuroPower 3500ES project. The 3500ES is enclosed on the 4 sides with metal foam-lined panels (the bottom is open). I've lined the enclosure panels with Hardibacker and am now at the point where I want to enclose the top (where the gas tank was) with another metal panel lined with Hardibacker. I'm anticipating I may have to do either some venting or a fan for temp control.

I found a really neat digital thermometer with a wired probe that I intend to use to monitor temps and will probably permanently install on the genset's control panel; it arrived today and works perfectly: $11.99 thermometer with probe.

My question: Is there any consensus on what area is the most critical to monitor for temp? I know some have monitored cylinder temp, generator exhaust temp, oil temp, etc. Which one would be the best to monitor and what is the "upper limits of normal" temp and what is the "redline" temp for that area?

I would like to put the probe in the most critical area and then I can experiment with enclosing the top of the genset, venting and/or a fan.

Regards,
John

John,

You are advancing the technique of Mods and sound lower measures with your DuroPower genset. The Digital Sure Electronics Thermometer, with probe, will put you in a new league. For me, with all my trial and error enclosures, that item would have been a nice find. Will the probe fit between the fins on the cylinder head? If needed, I could give you that temp by using a laser light thermometer. Should you go with using that area. I'm anxious to hear to what degree you have lowered the sound level without going all the way to enclose the genset. Lot's of noise comes from the bottom area. Professor found using a rubber mat under, helps. I found a problem with lack of airflow around the genhead by wrapping the muffler but perhaps the muffler wrap method you have used (header wrap) is superior to my past trial of using fiberglass only, it melted like suger all over the muffler and manifold. Removing the heat from the area no doubt helps with lower genhead temp. Your finish product with all the mods and pictures will be most interesting. Great going.

[MrWizard]

I don't remember the page/post#, but there is a picture of the location & mounting of the temp sensor, he did a lot of testing and data recording to find the spot

[jlaustin]

MrWizard wrote:
If me , I would follow the Professor's example with the cylinder ?, this is where the heat is generated 'pun intended' and you don't want the engine to overheat & seize, if the engine temp is where it belongs, then everywhere else should also be OK.

I'm only up to page 626 on attempting to catch up on the thread!:B

Is there a recommended location for the probe on the cylinder - it's going to be very different out on a fin versus deep between the fins, or, in the direct path of the cooling air versus out of the airstream?

Regards,
John

[MrWizard]

If me , I would follow the Professor's example with the cylinder ?, this is where the heat is generated 'pun intended' and you don't want the engine to overheat & seize, if the engine temp is where it belongs, then everywhere else should also be OK.

[jlaustin]

I've pretty much finalized the remote start, LPG conversion, primer, microvac switch/propane solenoid cut-off on my DuroPower 3500ES project. The 3500ES is enclosed on the 4 sides with metal foam-lined panels (the bottom is open). I've lined the enclosure panels with Hardibacker and am now at the point where I want to enclose the top (where the gas tank was) with another metal panel lined with Hardibacker. I'm anticipating I may have to do either some venting or a fan for temp control.

I found a really neat digital thermometer with a wired probe that I intend to use to monitor temps and will probably permanently install on the genset's control panel; it arrived today and works perfectly: $11.99 thermometer with probe.

My question: Is there any consensus on what area is the most critical to monitor for temp? I know some have monitored cylinder temp, generator exhaust temp, oil temp, etc. Which one would be the best to monitor and what is the "upper limits of normal" temp and what is the "redline" temp for that area?

I would like to put the probe in the most critical area and then I can experiment with enclosing the top of the genset, venting and/or a fan.

Regards,
John

[MrWizard]

when i had it on the slide, i left the exhaust std and did not modify it

because with the tray out, everything was in the open.

I only ran the champion with the slide out.

you could add a flex pipe ext to the end of the exhaust if you need to point it away from the fiver

[Trimsters]

Referencing the generator on the slide-out tray. Want to do this in the nose of my 5ver AND I want to vent the exhaust out the bottom via an extended exhaust pipe configuration.... how does one work a flexible pipe? Or do I want to put in fixed pipe with an easy to get to coupling joint?

Thanks.

Bob & Lisa

[snarfattack]

vmckague wrote:
Has anyone ever figured for sure if a 3000W gen will run in the same compartment as the ohan and not get hot.

Onan has engineered the generator to fit in that size. If you are willing to tinker and take the time to do your own "engineering" work like a few people here, you can make it work. It will not work "out of the box". You will either need to throw time (Chinese gen) and/or money (Onan/failed Chinese gen attempts) at it...

[snarfattack]

CJW8 wrote:
CPE is sending me a new carb. ($34.00/W shipping) I replaced the spark plug and it was extreamly black and sooty. This thing is running way to rich. Earlier this year, it would not run at all and I found the main jet plugged. I cleared it but now I believe I may have opened it up a bit. It doesn't take much, these things are maeasure in the thousandths. You can't buy just a jet, you have to buy the whole carb. I wonder if a small engine shop might have a jet that would work?

Most of these new carbs are not serviceable or adjustable anymore. EPA regulations are quickly making a new carb your only legally obtainable option.

[CJW8]

CPE is sending me a new carb. ($34.00/W shipping) I replaced the spark plug and it was extreamly black and sooty. This thing is running way to rich. Earlier this year, it would not run at all and I found the main jet plugged. I cleared it but now I believe I may have opened it up a bit. It doesn't take much, these things are maeasure in the thousandths. You can't buy just a jet, you have to buy the whole carb. I wonder if a small engine shop might have a jet that would work?

[CJW8]

TVman44, I forgot to mention that I cleaned the carb first with seafoam, then carb cleaner and there is seafoam in the tank. Also the generator will not produce more than 2400 watts.

[tvman44]

Try some seafoam in the gas. You can get that at most Walmarts.

CJW8 wrote:
I have a Champion 3500/4000 that lopes badly at idle. It started doing this after the main jet became plugged. When it was plugged it would not run at all unless gas was sprayed directly into chr carb throat. The main jet was pulled and cleaned as was the brass spool piece behind the main jet. Now it starts good but it lopes badly with no load. It smothes out with about 500 watts load and runs good until about 2000 watts. A couple of calls to Champion tech support said to clean the carb. I am telling you, there is no cleaner carb than mine! I have pulled it twice and completly dissassembled it and cleaned every surface and port with carb cleaner.

I have rectified the problem by screwing in the black plastic travel limit screw on top of the carb but I don't think this the correct solution and it leaves the generator at 64 hz. It goes down to 59.7 hz when load is applied. It just limits the swing that the govenor is doing to the throttle plate.

Please any ideas will be appreciated. It is a C46540.

[TeamSlacker]

oops deleted

[MrWizard]

to vmckague

NOT while enclosed, no the refelcted will be to much, it needs more free air flow.
cannot be used in compartment closed up

How ever, if you mount a sliding drawer or tray, in the compartment and place the portable genny on the tray, sand use it with the tray slid out, it will work very well. I did this with our previous MH when the Onan died

like this


now the professor put one in the front compartment of his fiver and installed a 12v radiator fan underneath as exhaust fan to blow the hot air out, but the compartment 4 times the avg size of built in space with NO close walls to hold heat and I think he moved the exhaust out side the compartment.

the pictures are in this thread somewhere

search for "the cave"

[CJW8]

I have a Champion 3500/4000 that lopes badly at idle. It started doing this after the main jet became plugged. When it was plugged it would not run at all unless gas was sprayed directly into chr carb throat. The main jet was pulled and cleaned as was the brass spool piece behind the main jet. Now it starts good but it lopes badly with no load. It smothes out with about 500 watts load and runs good until about 2000 watts. A couple of calls to Champion tech support said to clean the carb. I am telling you, there is no cleaner carb than mine! I have pulled it twice and completly dissassembled it and cleaned every surface and port with carb cleaner.

I have rectified the problem by screwing in the black plastic travel limit screw on top of the carb but I don't think this the correct solution and it leaves the generator at 64 hz. It goes down to 59.7 hz when load is applied. It just limits the swing that the govenor is doing to the throttle plate.

Please any ideas will be appreciated. It is a C46540.