3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

han wrote:
Prof95;
Hmmm... I too bought one of the chinese generators, only a Kipor 3000 watt. My justification was that I could also use it in the winter time to power the furnace in my home. Well, to make a long story short, winter came, the power went out, I got the generator and set it up on my patio and ran a long cord into my furnace closet. The generator was started, but the furnace would not run. I received a "GFI failure fault" on my furnace, even though there is no GFCI breaker on this furnace, it simply plugs into a wall outlet. The furnace will not run on this gererator, but WILL run on my Yamaha 1000 watt generator. That tells me something about these cheap generators is amiss, like poor frequency lock, or weird wave (non-sinusoidal) waveforms... Son has the 'scope, so I can't see whats what, but would be interested in finding out.
han

Well, this is my best guesstimate and it ain't the length of power cord or voltage drop. Your Kippor is an inverter genset. It uses a 3 phase high frequency alternator to power a solid state inverter which gives an output as close to a regular AC sine wave as possible.

Your furnace is not designed to operate off of a GFCI circuit, which is why your furnace is telling you there is a fault when it does not contain a GFCI (does it talk to you?). The control modlule in the furnace must be designed so that it can determine an external GFCI trip. I bet if your furnace is plugged into any GFCI protected outlet it will show the fault code.


Back to the Kippor. I do not know if the output is GFCI protected or not. But, I do know it should be. Even if it is not GFCI protected in the conventional manner, the internal 'lectronics of the inverter are designed to sense what may be a load problem and shut the unit down to protect either you or the genset from damage. That is what it sees when connected to your furnace.

Your old Yamihami is a direct drive non-inverter unit that will only blow a breaker or self destruct if the load is not compatable. Thus, it doesn't know any better when connected to your furnace and works fine.

Getting around all of this so your furnace will work with your Kippor may be a challenge. The first thing I would try is an isolation transformer between the two. But, even that might not be pratical since finding an isolation transformer operating at 7 to 10 amps might be difficult.

On second thought, I am not currently sure of a safe method to make the two work together. My brain is fried right now after classes all day and I am coming up blank. Let me think on it and perhaps I can come up with a workable solution. In the mean time, you will need to use an old fashon non-inverter, non-GFCI protected genset to power that new fangled fancy dancy furnace thingie.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

~

[Oldfordman]

presp wrote:

Hard to believe its just those cheap Chinese electrons causing the problem. 🙂

Pres

Language Barrier!

[presp]

han wrote:
.. Son has the 'scope, so I can't see whats what, but would be interested in finding out.

How about using a simple voltmeter to see if there is any voltage between common and ground going to the genny?

Are the grounds common on both house and generator?

Hard to believe its just those cheap Chinese electrons causing the problem. 🙂

Pres

[sjj]

han,

What wire guage and how long a cord did you use? Voltage drop could be an issue.

[han]

Prof95;
Hmmm... I too bought one of the chinese generators, only a Kipor 3000 watt. My justification was that I could also use it in the winter time to power the furnace in my home. Well, to make a long story short, winter came, the power went out, I got the generator and set it up on my patio and ran a long cord into my furnace closet. The generator was started, but the furnace would not run. I received a "GFI failure fault" on my furnace, even though there is no GFCI breaker on this furnace, it simply plugs into a wall outlet. The furnace will not run on this gererator, but WILL run on my Yamaha 1000 watt generator. That tells me something about these cheap generators is amiss, like poor frequency lock, or weird wave (non-sinusoidal) waveforms... Son has the 'scope, so I can't see whats what, but would be interested in finding out.
han

[MrWizard]

my first champion the 1200, i used for a year, then gave it to a friend when I bought the c45640 3500 watt RV ready

when i got he 40008 electric start 3500 watt RV model I put the other other one in storage to keep as backup or loaner as needed

people like them so well, they will buy an extra for the house or emg use, or give as a gift to family

[Wgeorge11]

sjj wrote:
Tks. Wizzard.

Brings up an interesting question. How many generators do you folks have? Seems I often read threads that someone has several. You guys sell them, give them away, keep spares, or just collect them?

YES

[sjj]

Tks. Wizzard.

Brings up an interesting question. How many generators do you folks have? Seems I often read threads that someone has several. You guys sell them, give them away, keep spares, or just collect them?

[MrWizard]

call champion and get a new spring , the one you are using likley will have a different govenor speed response than the un-broken orginal

[kausin_komotion]

The spring over the idle arm broke off this week on my champion (about 1" where it was bent over the bracket broke off)so I stretched the spring a little and bent it over the bracket again.How critical is the length of this spring?Can I leave it as it is now or should I order a new spring?
Have about 800 hrs. on it now and still happy with it.

[MrWizard]

I used one on a regular basis for a year before moving up to a bigger model

good little generators, good quality

[sjj]

Any information on the little Champion 1200 Watt generator? They are on sale for $199 locally.

[22geno]

E-Mailed Kipor Guy about exaust close to plastic cover and choke cable being to short. He informed me that these had been taken care of along with some other issues. He says the third generation 3600 Boliy is not having any trouble that he knows about. Anybody got a new 3rd generation, if so how's it doin.
Geno

[ol_Bombero-JC]

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