3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[olephart]

Thanks guys.

[professor95]

The actual charge rate for the GF batteries is best determined by temperature. Most 6 volt GC batteries are rated around 150 amp hours. This remains the rating for series batteries but adds for parallel. A pair of series GC batteries caps at a charge rate of about 30 amps unless you want to fast charge or boost charge. If that is the case then monitor the battery case temperature and keep it under 135 degrees F. Be sure to frequently check the electrolyte level as they will loose water rapidly at high charge rates.

BTW, my GC uses six 8 volt batteries. The charger limits current to 15 amps max.

I agree with the other comments and advice.

[olephart]

Thanks for your patience. I am an electrical maroon. What caused me some confusion is the converter has a different setting to automatically limit/balance the charger current.

You set whatever amperage you want to go to the appliances, Say 20A on 30A shore power. The charger will get the current specified in the first setting we discussed, say 60A until the appliance load approaches the value set 20A.

As the appliances approach 20A, battery charging is scaled back to maintain 20A to the appliances at all times. At that point, the charger would have 10A @ 120V.

You could set this to zero if you wanted all power to the charger.

Sooo.... I was thinking (figure of speech) that the charging amps setting was to comply with the battery manufacturers recommended charging rate. I'll just set it around 60A and let the other setting decide how much actually goes to the charger.

[MrWizard]

yes, thats what i'm talking about
limit charge and allow "POWER PASS THRU"

if your on a 30a shore pedestal trying to charge at 100 amps, the charger will be using approx 1700w or 18+ amps leaving only 12amps available for the RV 120v circuits,
IF you tried that on a 15amp duplex at home or somewhere else, it would trip the 15 amp CB for the circuit

for the that generator you are OK at the full 100amp available, unless you want to use MW or A/C at the same time
even then, it should work, because 2GC's are NOT going to accept 100amps for more than a few seconds
even when very low 50-60 will be more likely for starting charge, and taper down from there
to make them take 100 amps you would have to increase the charging voltage beyond recommended safe level

60% would be a good avg setting
but IF you want to charge at home from the garage, I suggest you use a lower setting IF any other power might be needed, like the fridge, or A/C

[olephart]

Thanks MrWizzard. Apparently this converter is different. It appears that you actually can control the charging amps to the battery. I'm wonder what to set for 2x220A golf cart batteries? Below is a quote from the manual:

"SETUP: 05 Charge Rate - Used to set the maximum charge rate allowed to charge the batteries during bulk, absorption, float and equalize charging.

Selections are ‘Max Charge = 0%’ up to ‘Max Charge = 100%. The Max Charge = 0% setting is available to help minimize charging while continuing to allow pass-thru power. The rest of the selections are provided
to limit the charge rate to the battery bank, which helps prevent battery
overheating caused by charging at too high a charge rate.

The Max Charge selections are provided as a percentage of the inverter/
charger’s maximum charging capability. Refer to label on the side of the
inverter or the operator’s manual for the inverter/charger to determine its
maximum charge rate. Once you find this maximum charge rate, determine
the percentage needed to limit the charge rate to your battery-bank.
For example, if the maximum charge rate of your inverter/charger is 100 amps and you need to limit the charge rate to 50 amps, choose the Max Charge = 50% selection (50 amps = 50% of 100 amps)."

[MrRchitty]

MrWizard wrote:
I might be mistaken
but usually any charge rate adjustment is there so you can turn down the power draw to match the shore power source, meaning reduce the charge to say 30 amps, when you are plugged into a relatives 15amp duplex outlet

for the generator, if you don't need the power for other things like the MW or the A/C leave it at 100a output, the batteries will only accept what they will, charge acceptance is set by voltage & battery resistance

IF you need to run the A/C while charging, then wait until the charge rate drops off, or set a lower output rate so converter draws less from the generator and it will will have enough power left over to carry both the converter and the A/C

My camper has been plugged in for about two weeks and I checked the voltage from WFCO. It is still showing 13.6 volts. It should be 13.2 volts. Anyway....

[pritch272]

HobbyTalk wrote:
Thanks everyone for the info. I normally don't use the EMS with a generator but since this was new I figured I'd see what it said. I did find out the voltage out of the Champion is a bit high at 131v so I have to find how to adjust that down a bit.

Is the EMS telling you its 131 volts? I would connect an independent meter. My EMS also says 131 volts but 2 other meters say 120.

My EMS cuts off the power as it thinks its too high, perhaps I'll tweak it down a bit.

[MrWizard]

I might be mistaken
but usually any charge rate adjustment is there so you can turn down the power draw to match the shore power source, meaning reduce the charge to say 30 amps, when you are plugged into a relatives 15amp duplex outlet

for the generator, if you don't need the power for other things like the MW or the A/C leave it at 100a output, the batteries will only accept what they will, charge acceptance is set by voltage & battery resistance

IF you need to run the A/C while charging, then wait until the charge rate drops off, or set a lower output rate so converter draws less from the generator and it will will have enough power left over to carry both the converter and the A/C

[olephart]

I noticed several recent comments about charging 2x220 amp hour golf cart batteries (initially) at 60A for about 4 hours to get a 90% charge. I will have this setup soon and wonder if the 60A rate is the best, or just what the particular charger will do?

I can adjust the charge rate on my converter up to 100A. I would like to get her done as quickly as possible without harming the batteries. What rate should I use? I'll be using the Champion 46514 to run the converter.

Thanks for a great thread.

[tvman44]

Turn the screw CCW to reduce the voltage. I had to adjust mine the other day.

professor95 wrote:

HobbyTalk wrote:
Thanks everyone for the info. I normally don't use the EMS with a generator but since this was new I figured I'd see what it said. I did find out the voltage out of the Champion is a bit high at 131v so I have to find how to adjust that down a bit.

Voltage adjustment is buried somewhere back in this thread. Short version is:

• remove end cover on alternator.
• remove bolts that secure AVR.
• Turn AVR over so you can access "potted" side.
• Look for small brass screw on potted side.
• Using a small screwdriver turn screw to achieve desired voltage.
• NOTE: The screw is a 10 turn potentiometer so do not be concerned if you must turn it several full 360 degree turns.

[professor95]

HobbyTalk wrote:
Thanks everyone for the info. I normally don't use the EMS with a generator but since this was new I figured I'd see what it said. I did find out the voltage out of the Champion is a bit high at 131v so I have to find how to adjust that down a bit.

Voltage adjustment is buried somewhere back in this thread. Short version is:

• remove end cover on alternator.
• remove bolts that secure AVR.
• Turn AVR over so you can access "potted" side.
• Look for small brass screw on potted side.
• Using a small screwdriver turn screw to achieve desired voltage.
• NOTE: The screw is a 10 turn potentiometer so do not be concerned if you must turn it several full 360 degree turns.

[Jer_Ger]

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[HobbyTalk]

Thanks everyone for the info. I normally don't use the EMS with a generator but since this was new I figured I'd see what it said. I did find out the voltage out of the Champion is a bit high at 131v so I have to find how to adjust that down a bit.

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
Yes, the ground is not bonded to the neutral on most generators. You can do 2 different things #1 flip the bypass switch on the monitor to bypass position. #2 or do what I do "take a 15 amp 3 prong plug and put a jumper in it from the ground pin to the neutral pin and plug the jumpered plug into the 20 amp receptacle.

Bob's first suggestion of flipping the switch on the monitor is the best. By making a plug that ties neutral to ground you are connecting all of the steel frame work in your camper to the neutral on the generator without the benefit of an earth ground. Personally, I don't want a 60 volt potential neutral connected to my camper frame when powering from a generator. Remember, a portable generator has no true earth ground.

[tvman44]

Yes, the ground is not bonded to the neutral on most generators. You can do 2 different things #1 flip the bypass switch on the monitor to bypass position. #2 or do what I do "take a 15 amp 3 prong plug and put a jumper in it from the ground pin to the neutral pin and plug the jumpered plug into the 20 amp receptacle.