3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[thetimfactor]

I have been a long time reader (most of the 933 pages) but this is my first post, so here it goes. I have a Champion generator mounted in my 5er bacement like professor95 has. My rig has a 50amp service with a automatic trasfer switch between the two. I am worriered about AVR failer and surges from the campground. Would a surge protector like the Square D SDSA1175 cover both? At $33 and easy install seems to be a good deal?

[TeamSlacker]

A little off the recent topics, but still belongs in this thread I do belive. I seem to have aquired some more gensets (all inverters), either buying myself or borrow (the honda) for some sound testing.
Still too much snow in back yard to do test in open like I want, will do that soon I hope, and will post results. For now, tested each gen with eco mode on (low rpm), no load, at about 21'. Had buildings on either side of where the db meter was located, so I'm sure I got some reflection and higher results than will be normal in open field. Just tested on one side (the side where the elec panel is on the honda)
Honda 2000i 54db
ETQ in1800i 58db
ETQ in800i 57db
FME 3.3kw 60db
AllPower 2kw 63db

The champ open frame is still snowed in, so when I get the full test done, I'll post results.

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:
ok Prof- Here's the C46540 schematic, I see that it has a transition, does that imply it has over voltage protection? No, it does not as it's only 2 wires and a ground, per your earlier posting which I just re-read.

I do wonder how quick the EMS-HW30C can react to the 192 VAC if the AVR does fail ...

Yep, you answered your own question. The C46540 does not have the OVPM.

I would expect the EMS-HW30C would open the supply circuit fast enough to prevent damage. It would not shut down the generator. But, the HW30C is a $300.00 device, the KILLAVOLT is $39.95 and surge protectors with Metal Oxide Varistors (MOVs) are less than $10.00. Thus, there is now an affordable over voltage protection device commercially available.

At the bottom of this text is a photo of the device identified as the two wire "Transition" in the schematic. Why it is named transition is a mystery to me.

This is a photo of the de-potted transition.



Anyway, the device receives power from the ignition coil. When the yellow wire to the transition is touched to ground, it latches and stays latched, grounding the coil so there is no spark, until the engine is completely off. The latch is a simple single transistor circuit with an electrolytic capacitor. The charge in the capacitor holds the latch closed to ground even after the supply voltage is removed. Every Chinese synchronous generator of this type that has a low oil shutdown feature - no matter what the wattage or who makes it - uses an identical transition. The Chinese transition can be used as a replacement on Coleman Powermate, etc. - even my 20+ year old Kawasaki 1400. The technology has been around a long time.

Without the device the low oil float switch would probably not shut down the engine. It would just intermittently ground the coil making the engine sputter.

With the transition, you can have a simple spring loaded normally open push button switch to kill the engine. Simply push the button once, the transition latches and the engine shuts down.

With the KILLAVOLT plugged in, as soon as it senses an over voltage a ground signal is sent to the transition. It immediately latches and the engine shuts off.

When CPE designed the OVPM they made the transition part of the circuit, eliminating the silver cube shown in the photo.

I think SuperGen Products will provide the silver transition for anyone ordering the KILLAVOLT that has a generator that DOES NOT have the device as OEM equipment.

BTW - the generator I have shown in the photos is my experimentation generator. I acquired it used after a thousand or more hours of service and have disassembled and reassembled most every part on it several times. Amazingly, it still works :C

[pritch272]

ok Prof- Here's the C46540 schematic, I see that it has a transition, does that imply it has over voltage protection? No, it does not as it's only 2 wires and a ground, per your earlier posting which I just re-read.

I do wonder how quick the EMS-HW30C can react to the 192 VAC if the AVR does fail ...

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

MrRchitty wrote:
Is class back in session?

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

The students are in class waiting for the great
professor.

Sure, I would.

Randy (#2)

WOW! With an introduction like that how could anyone resist??

OK - here goes.....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

An AVR is an acronym for Automatic Voltage Regulator. I've been playing around with AVR's for several years now just for the heck of it - and the opportunity to learn more about how these machines operate.

There are two types of output voltage regulation commonly in use on synchronous generators from ALL manufacturers – Asian or Domestic.

One is the AVR, which shares basic principles across the board. The other is a simple capacitor circuit as shown in the schematic of the CPE 40048 1200/1500 watt portable generator (Schematics attached below).





NOTE AVR IN BOTTOM SCHEMATIC REPLACES CAPACITOR IN TOP SCHEMATIC.


Interestingly enough, fellow thread contributor N9WOS recently wrote a rather long and detailed dissertation on AVR operation of his newly acquired 2000 watt Chinese synchronous generator. The posting appeared on this thread 2/11/11 at 7:42 p.m.. Page back to find the posting. It was extremely well written and contains significant detailed information on the operation of these generators and the AVR.

On my 40008, which is similar to all of the other AVR controlled Chinese generators out there, the AVR operates as follows: (See attached schematic for model 40051 above)

The exciter winding (Blue – Blue in AVR to Yellow – Yellow on generator) produces a low voltage AC signal for the AVR. The exciter winding is in the Stator, or stationary non-rotating coils of the generator (actually an alternator). This voltage is produced as the rotor begins to turn by a small amount of residual magnetism in the iron mass that is present all the time. This is the voltage that begins the self excitation process whereby some of the power produced by the generator is used to create the strong electromagnetic field needed to produce the output power.



EXCITATION VOLTAGE CREATED BY RESIDUAL MAGNETISM - THIS IS WHAT GETS THE GENERATOR OUTPUT STARTED.


The voltage from the exciter winding is precision regulated (just smoke and mirrors right now - no "how" details) by the AVR and is used to excite the field windings through the brush set so that there is a stronger electromagnetic field present to produce the desired voltage in the main windings (Red-White or Red-Black). The voltage from the main windings is fed back to the AVR (Brown – Blue in the generator to Yellow-Yellow on AVR) as a reference voltage so that the AVR can keep the field excitation voltage regulated.

Yea, I know all of these connector color changes are confusing. I wish the designers had maintained the same wire colors on the AVR as the generator.

If the AVR is completely removed from the system (disconnected) there will be no excitation voltage to to the field coils via the brush set and the output voltage will be something like 4-7 VAC (Voltage is generated by residual magnetic field - see photo above).

If the AVR is present in the system and there is a failure of any component inside the AVR (i.e. Diode, FET Transistor, NPN transistors Q2-Q4 or the zenier diode) there will be no internal regulation and the field will be driven into full saturation which will produce 190 plus VAC out at the plug-in.

This can be simulated by opening one of the two wires from the main winding back to the AVR (yellow on AVR).

I have moved the AVR out of the back of the alternator on this test rig and put a switch in one of the yellow AVR leads so I can open or close the circuit.



AVR MOVED TO OUTSIDE FOR ACCESS AND SWITCH ATTACHED IN MAIN WINDING FEEDBACK


As you can see from the photos, if the AVR is working properly, we have 120 VAC. If it fails, the voltage spikes to 192 VAC.



120.1 VAC READING WITH OPERATIONAL AVR




FAILED AVR CAUSES OUTPUT VOLTAGE TO REACH 192+ VAC. FAILURE SIMULATED BY OPENING SWITCH IN MAIN WINDING FEEDBACK CIRCUIT



AVR TOP HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ALUMINUM HEAT SINK/CASE SHOWING ONLY EPOXY POTTED MODULE.

BOTTOM OF PHOTO IS AVR WITH POTTING REMOVED.




CLOSE-UP PHOTO OF UNPOTTED AVR ELECTRONICS. BLUE RECTANGULAR DEVICE WITH BRASS SCREW ON TOP IS THE USER ADJUSTABLE POTENTIOMETER FOR SETTING OUTPUT VOLTAGE


AVR failure happens without warning. It is usually associated with high temperatures that cause components to fail or high current being fed to the brush assembly to maintain maximum power output over sustained periods of time.

The AVR is mounted in the rear of the generator head, just behind the louvered cap. A fan in the front of the generator head draws cool outside air into the louvers and across the AVR. Under some operating conditions this is not enough cool air to keep the AVR at a safe operating temperature. Booster fans may be installed on the end cap or the AVR can be completely removed and remounted on a large heat sink in a cooler location. Both methods are often used when the generator is modified to work in an enclosure.

But, failure does not always occur under these conditions. The components in the AVR can become weakened then fail unexpectedly under normal operating conditions.

If it fails, the voltage spikes to 192 VAC.The problem is that if a failure can create a voltage jump from 120 VAC to 190 VAC just like “that”, any electronic component connected to the generator can be literally fried in the blink of an eye.

I have experienced three AVR failures in the past six years. The first resulted in a complete loss of output voltage, which is safe, and the last two resulted in a voltage spike. The more recent failure was, fortunately, stopped by some surge protectors with MOV’s that literally exploded, ruining the surge protectors but saving my TV, refrigerator control board and charger/converter. I did have to replace the surge protectors, but the combined cost of around $80 was small compared to the appliances that could have been ruined.







PHOTOS ABOVE WERE OF THE MOV's AND FUSEABLE COMPONENTS OF SURGE PROTECTORS DESTROYED BY 190 VAC. THEY SAVED EXPENSIVE ELECTRONICS IN MY RV BUT ALL HAD TO BE REPLACED AT A COST OF ABOUT $80.00


About two years ago CPE quietly began installing an Over Voltage Protection Module in selected models of their 120 volt generators – specifically the 46515 and the 46538. There may be other models in the CPE line-up with the OVPM, I’m just not familiar with all of the electrical designs for each model. Models with the OVPM can be identified by a device named “Transition” on the schematic that has five wires. Models with only two wires going to the Transition device will not have the OVPM. For example, the 40051 and models sold prior to the 46515 do not have the module.



MODEL 40051 WITHOUT THE OVPM



MODEL 46515 WITH THE OVPM



PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF OVPM USED IN SOME CPE MODEL GENERATORS

The module monitors the output voltage. If the voltage exceeds 140 VAC for more than two continuous output cycles (1/30th of a second), the module kills the power to the ignition and the engine immediately shuts down. This response is fast enough that all but the most sensitive electronic devices are saved from destruction. Even with this, I still strongly advise the use of surge protectors on the refrigerator, converter charger and your audio/video equipment.

On the CPE model 46538 the built-in module not only kills the engine, but immediately removes power via a redesigned AVR with an extra set of wires that removes the AVR from the system. Personally, I believe the 46538 is the best of the best synchronous generator models and offers exceptional OVP features and load shedding. I will be replacing the 40008 in my fifth wheel “cave” with the 46538 in the next few weeks due to these features.



SCHEMATIC OF 46538 SHOWING OVPM AND LOAD SHED CIRCUIT ON AVR

To the best of my knowledge, no other maker of synchronous generators has an OVPM in their product line-up.

But, I have good news for owners of older generators, other manufacturers, or current CPE models without the OVPM.

SuperGen Products now has an easy to install plug-in OVPM being sold under the name of KILLAVOLT. SuperGen is a relatively new company marketing accessory products for portable generators. I have their GenTent and Lazy Man's Oil Drain. Both are pretty cool accessory items.

I recently received two KILLAVOLT modules for evaluation and testing. I kept one and sent the other to fellow thread member Jaustin, who recently had an AVR fail on his DuroPower generator. I do not know if John has had an opportunity to test his module or not (comments John?)



KILLAVOLT FROM SuperGen Products PLUGS INTO AN OUTLET WITH ONE WIRE TO KILL SWITCH OR LOW OIL SENSOR. SHUTS DOWN ENGINE IF AVR FAILS AND VOLTAGE SPIKES

The device plugs into an available 120 VAC outlet on the front of the generator and has a plug-in on the front of the module so you do not lose access to the outlet. There is ONE wire that comes off the bottom of the module that is attached to the yellow wire on the generator’s low oil or power down latching sensor. That’s all it takes to install. If the output voltage goes over 140 VAC the KILLAVOLT immediately senses the condition and shuts down the engine. There is a small green LED on the front to let you know the unit is operating, and an adjacent red button to push to test the unit for the correct connection and operation.

In all of my tests, the add-on module has performed flawlessly. It is a darn good insurance item for any synchronous generator that does not have a built in OVPM.


So…… That’s the AVR/OVPM story as I know it!

(EDITS ADDED: An incorrect photo and a few words out of place fixed. Amazing what a nights sleep can do.)

🙂

[Old___Slow]

🙂

[jlaustin]

professor95 wrote:

I recently received two KILLAVOLT modules for evaluation and testing. I kept one and sent the other to fellow thread member Jaustin, who recently had an AVR fail on his DuroPower generator. I do not know if John has had an opportunity to test his module or not (comments John?)

As some may remember, I have a much-modified DuroPower genset. It came semi-enclosed, but I have enclosed it further and naturally had to add forced ventilation. A cooling fan on the AVR/alternator failed, failing the AVR, and what the Professor describes above really does happen (the DuroPower has no over-voltage protection)! The voltage shot up in a flash! Fortunately, I was standing right there when it happened and got everything shut down before damage resulted (also, fortunately, I didn't have any electronics going at the time).
The KILLAVOLT is exactly as described, just plug it in a 110 outlet and connect the wire to the low oil sensor wire and that's it! Much like a GFCI, there's a test button to push to see if it's really working. I haven't "tested" it in the extreme with another AVR failure, but hopefully, I won't go there! HA!

Regards,
John

[MrRchitty]

Any questions?

Otherwise, class is dismissed.

:B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B

:B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B :B

[Old___Slow]

🙂

[professor95]

MrRchitty wrote:
Is class back in session?

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

The students are in class waiting for the great
professor.

Sure, I would.

Randy (#2)

WOW! With an introduction like that how could anyone resist??

OK - here goes.....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

An AVR is an acronym for Automatic Voltage Regulator. I've been playing around with AVR's for several years now just for the heck of it - and the opportunity to learn more about how these machines operate.

There are two types of output voltage regulation commonly in use on synchronous generators from ALL manufacturers – Asian or Domestic.

One is the AVR, which shares basic principles across the board. The other is a simple capacitor circuit as shown in the schematic of the CPE 40048 1200/1500 watt portable generator (Schematics attached below).





NOTE AVR IN BOTTOM SCHEMATIC REPLACES CAPACITOR IN TOP SCHEMATIC.


Interestingly enough, fellow thread contributor N9WOS recently wrote a rather long and detailed dissertation on AVR operation of his newly acquired 2000 watt Chinese synchronous generator. The posting appeared on this thread 2/11/11 at 7:42 p.m.. Page back to find the posting. It was extremely well written and contains significant detailed information on the operation of these generators and the AVR.

On my 40008, which is similar to all of the other AVR controlled Chinese generators out there, the AVR operates as follows: (See attached schematic for model 40051 above)

The exciter winding (Blue – Blue in AVR to Yellow – Yellow on generator) produces a low voltage AC signal for the AVR. The exciter winding is in the Stator, or stationary non-rotating coils of the generator (actually an alternator). This voltage is produced as the rotor begins to turn by a small amount of residual magnetism in the iron mass that is present all the time. This is the voltage that begins the self excitation process whereby some of the power produced by the generator is used to create the strong electromagnetic field needed to produce the output power.



EXCITATION VOLTAGE CREATED BY RESIDUAL MAGNETISM - THIS IS WHAT GETS THE GENERATOR OUTPUT STARTED.


The voltage from the exciter winding is precision regulated (just smoke and mirrors right now - no "how" details) by the AVR and is used to excite the field windings through the brush set so that there is a stronger electromagnetic field present to produce the desired voltage in the main windings (Red-White or Red-Black). The voltage from the main windings is fed back to the AVR (Brown – Blue in the generator to Yellow-Yellow on AVR) as a reference voltage so that the AVR can keep the field excitation voltage regulated.

Yea, I know all of these connector color changes are confusing. I wish the designers had maintained the same wire colors on the AVR as the generator.

If the AVR is completely removed from the system (disconnected) there will be no excitation voltage to to the field coils via the brush set and the output voltage will be something like 4-7 VAC (Voltage is generated by residual magnetic field - see photo above).

If the AVR is present in the system and there is a failure of any component inside the AVR (i.e. Diode, FET Transistor, NPN transistors Q2-Q4 or the zenier diode) there will be no internal regulation and the field will be driven into full saturation which will produce 190 plus VAC out at the plug-in.

This can be simulated by opening one of the two wires from the main winding back to the AVR (yellow on AVR).

I have moved the AVR out of the back of the alternator on this test rig and put a switch in one of the yellow AVR leads so I can open or close the circuit.



AVR MOVED TO OUTSIDE FOR ACCESS AND SWITCH ATTACHED IN MAIN WINDING FEEDBACK


As you can see from the photos, if the AVR is working properly, we have 120 VAC. If it fails, the voltage spikes to 192 VAC.



120.1 VAC READING WITH OPERATIONAL AVR




FAILED AVR CAUSES OUTPUT VOLTAGE TO REACH 192+ VAC. FAILURE SIMULATED BY OPENING SWITCH IN MAIN WINDING FEEDBACK CIRCUIT



AVR TOP HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ALUMINUM HEAT SINK/CASE SHOWING ONLY EPOXY POTTED MODULE.

BOTTOM OF PHOTO IS AVR WITH POTTING REMOVED.




CLOSE-UP PHOTO OF UNPOTTED AVR ELECTRONICS. BLUE RECTANGULAR DEVICE WITH BRASS SCREW ON TOP IS THE USER ADJUSTABLE POTENTIOMETER FOR SETTING OUTPUT VOLTAGE


AVR failure happens without warning. It is usually associated with high temperatures that cause components to fail or high current being fed to the brush assembly to maintain maximum power output over sustained periods of time.

The AVR is mounted in the rear of the generator head, just behind the louvered cap. A fan in the front of the generator head draws cool outside air into the louvers and across the AVR. Under some operating conditions this is not enough cool air to keep the AVR at a safe operating temperature. Booster fans may be installed on the end cap or the AVR can be completely removed and remounted on a large heat sink in a cooler location. Both methods are often used when the generator is modified to work in an enclosure.

But, failure does not always occur under these conditions. The components in the AVR can become weakened then fail unexpectedly under normal operating conditions.

If it fails, the voltage spikes to 192 VAC.The problem is that if a failure can create a voltage jump from 120 VAC to 190 VAC just like “that”, any electronic component connected to the generator can be literally fried in the blink of an eye.

I have experienced three AVR failures in the past six years. The first resulted in a complete loss of output voltage, which is safe, and the last two resulted in a voltage spike. The more recent failure was, fortunately, stopped by some surge protectors with MOV’s that literally exploded, ruining the surge protectors but saving my TV, refrigerator control board and charger/converter. I did have to replace the surge protectors, but the combined cost of around $80 was small compared to the appliances that could have been ruined.







PHOTOS ABOVE WERE OF THE MOV's AND FUSEABLE COMPONENTS OF SURGE PROTECTORS DESTROYED BY 190 VAC. THEY SAVED EXPENSIVE ELECTRONICS IN MY RV BUT ALL HAD TO BE REPLACED AT A COST OF ABOUT $80.00


About two years ago CPE quietly began installing an Over Voltage Protection Module in selected models of their 120 volt generators – specifically the 46515 and the 46538. There may be other models in the CPE line-up with the OVPM, I’m just not familiar with all of the electrical designs for each model. Models with the OVPM can be identified by a device named “Transition” on the schematic that has five wires. Models with only two wires going to the Transition device will not have the OVPM. For example, the 40051 and models sold prior to the 46515 do not have the module.



MODEL 40051 WITHOUT THE OVPM



MODEL 46515 WITH THE OVPM



PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF OVPM USED IN SOME CPE MODEL GENERATORS

The module monitors the output voltage. If the voltage exceeds 140 VAC for more than two continuous output cycles (1/30th of a second), the module kills the power to the ignition and the engine immediately shuts down. This response is fast enough that all but the most sensitive electronic devices are saved from destruction. Even with this, I still strongly advise the use of surge protectors on the refrigerator, converter charger and your audio/video equipment.

On the CPE model 46538 the built-in module not only kills the engine, but immediately removes power via a redesigned AVR with an extra set of wires that removes the AVR from the system. Personally, I believe the 46538 is the best of the best synchronous generator models and offers exceptional OVP features and load shedding. I will be replacing the 40008 in my fifth wheel “cave” with the 46538 in the next few weeks due to these features.



SCHEMATIC OF 46538 SHOWING OVPM AND LOAD SHED CIRCUIT ON AVR

To the best of my knowledge, no other maker of synchronous generators has an OVPM in their product line-up.

But, I have good news for owners of older generators, other manufacturers, or current CPE models without the OVPM.

SuperGen Products now has an easy to install plug-in OVPM being sold under the name of KILLAVOLT. SuperGen is a relatively new company marketing accessory products for portable generators. I have their GenTent and Lazy Man's Oil Drain. Both are pretty cool accessory items.

I recently received two KILLAVOLT modules for evaluation and testing. I kept one and sent the other to fellow thread member Jaustin, who recently had an AVR fail on his DuroPower generator. I do not know if John has had an opportunity to test his module or not (comments John?)



KILLAVOLT FROM SuperGen Products PLUGS INTO AN OUTLET WITH ONE WIRE TO KILL SWITCH OR LOW OIL SENSOR. SHUTS DOWN ENGINE IF AVR FAILS AND VOLTAGE SPIKES

The device plugs into an available 120 VAC outlet on the front of the generator and has a plug-in on the front of the module so you do not lose access to the outlet. There is ONE wire that comes off the bottom of the module that is attached to the yellow wire on the generator’s low oil or power down latching sensor. That’s all it takes to install. If the output voltage goes over 140 VAC the KILLAVOLT immediately senses the condition and shuts down the engine. There is a small green LED on the front to let you know the unit is operating, and an adjacent red button to push to test the unit for the correct connection and operation.

In all of my tests, the add-on module has performed flawlessly. It is a darn good insurance item for any synchronous generator that does not have a built in OVPM.


So…… That’s the AVR/OVPM story as I know it!

(EDITS ADDED: An incorrect photo and a few words out of place fixed. Amazing what a nights sleep can do.)

[professor95]

Harrygoodwrench wrote:

Just a not so little side story. I was in my tractor Supply a few weeks back and they had a used Champion 46514 Watt gen sitting there with a $150 tag on it. I wandered away as I already had one for my camp and just a week earlier bought a Champion 5,000 watt for home back-up.
Well, I did my wandering and came back to the gen set sitting there. i looked it over and it was dusty but like new.
I asked how form that $150. price was and they got the manager. I asked why it was on sale. They said the customer said the RPM's kept going higher & higher and he shut it down then returned it.
The manager said make a offer. I thought for a moment and said I have $75. in my pocket and he said sold.
I brought it home with later intentions of checking it out and if it was defective I at least had a parts gen.
Well, we got a bad ice storm a few days later and lost power. I hadn't even took the 5,000 watt out of the box. I thought about the 3,500, and put some gas in it checked the oil. Started on first pull.
I ran that baby for three days to power the house sparingly.
I've come to the belief their was nothing wrong with that gen set at all and the original customer bought the gen during a power outage and then returned it after use saying it was defective.
Well, I'm a happy camper for that gamble. Great little gens these Champions.

Now, I bet I can tell you the rest of the story you probably don't know.

When the generator was returned as "defective" a claim was submitted to CPE under the product warranty by TSC.

CPE issued a credit to TSC and the store for the wholesale cost of the generator.

Rather than pay the freight to return the generator, CPE issued a "Field Destroy" order. This meant the TSC store was suppose to render the generator useless with a sledge hammer (or something like that) and then throw it into the trash.

But, the manager at your store did not field destroy the generator. He kept it and then put it out for resale (CPE does NOT sell used or returned generators in the USA). When you gave him the $75 it was all profit to him.

The dishonest buyer that used and returned the generator got away with his scam.

You got a good deal on the used generator.

The store or store manager picked up an extra $75.

CPE got the shaft. :S

[tvman44]

[COLOR=]The majority of returned items do not have a problem, either the original purchaser does not need it anymore or does not know how to properly use the item so it is returned as defective. Especially at big box stores.

Harrygoodwrench wrote:

professor95 wrote:
Would you like to to know more about why and how it works? Also, what can be done for older and other models that do not have an OVP feature?

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)



Just a not so little side story. I was in my tractor Supply a few weeks back and they had a used Champion 46514 Watt gen sitting there with a $150 tag on it. I wandered away as I already had one for my camp and just a week earlier bought a Champion 5,000 watt for home back-up.
Well, I did my wandering and came back to the gen set sitting there. i looked it over and it was dusty but like new.
I asked how form that $150. price was and they got the manager. I asked why it was on sale. They said the customer said the RPM's kept going higher & higher and he shut it down then returned it.
The manager said make a offer. I thought for a moment and said I have $75. in my pocket and he said sold.
I brought it home with later intentions of checking it out and if it was defective I at least had a parts gen.
Well, we got a bad ice storm a few days later and lost power. I hadn't even took the 5,000 watt out of the box. I thought about the 3,500, and put some gas in it checked the oil. Started on first pull.
I ran that baby for three days to power the house sparingly.
I've come to the belief their was nothing wrong with that gen set at all and the original customer bought the gen during a power outage and then returned it after use saying it was defective.
Well, I'm a happy camper for that gamble. Great little gens these Champions.

[Harrygoodwrench]

professor95 wrote:
Would you like to to know more about why and how it works? Also, what can be done for older and other models that do not have an OVP feature?

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)



Just a not so little side story. I was in my tractor Supply a few weeks back and they had a used Champion 46514 Watt gen sitting there with a $150 tag on it. I wandered away as I already had one for my camp and just a week earlier bought a Champion 5,000 watt for home back-up.
Well, I did my wandering and came back to the gen set sitting there. i looked it over and it was dusty but like new.
I asked how form that $150. price was and they got the manager. I asked why it was on sale. They said the customer said the RPM's kept going higher & higher and he shut it down then returned it.
The manager said make a offer. I thought for a moment and said I have $75. in my pocket and he said sold.
I brought it home with later intentions of checking it out and if it was defective I at least had a parts gen.
Well, we got a bad ice storm a few days later and lost power. I hadn't even took the 5,000 watt out of the box. I thought about the 3,500, and put some gas in it checked the oil. Started on first pull.
I ran that baby for three days to power the house sparingly.
I've come to the belief their was nothing wrong with that gen set at all and the original customer bought the gen during a power outage and then returned it after use saying it was defective.
Well, I'm a happy camper for that gamble. Great little gens these Champions.

[MrRchitty]

Is class back in session?

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

The students are in class waiting for the great
professor.

Sure, I would.

Randy (#2)

[professor95]

MrRchitty wrote:

professor 95 wrote:


Your model also has the new over voltage protection module installed. A great safety feature if the AVR fails to keep the voltage from soaring and blowing out any connected equipment.

I have the same model I bought about a year ago. Would mine have that same feature?

Great generator, by the way!

Yes, it does.

Would you like to to know more about why and how it works? Also, what can be done for older and other models that do not have an OVP feature?