Autoformer

[rfsod48]

What would be the proper sequence of using an Autoformer and a surge protector from coach to post?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

A glass of water is half full to an optimist

A glass of water is half empty to a pessimist

A glass of water is twice as big as it needs to be to an engineer

You already made up your min as to what you do not need. I made up my mind years ago I do not need to babysit a blog.

When information is of no use to me, I do not comment to the writer. It is a waste of time to do so and it the hallmark of someone who constantly sharpens their antlers on someone else's tree. If it does not suit you, ignore it. I do that in silence.

[TechWriter]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Tech Writer if you are serious about Helping - can you contact the companies you inquired about and find out if they are even willing to reveal IF they have anything more than a few MOVs inside them?

Though I don't have the expertise you apparently have, I'm satisfied with my Autoformer & "surge protector" purchases and have no intention of contacting any manufacturers.

I just wanted to know what equipment you actually took apart to come to your conclusions, but asking you this just led to a rant which I (and I'm guessing others) can do without.

You remind me of a lot of engineers I used to work with . . . I'd ask them what time it is and they'd explain how the watch works. Well intentioned, but . . .

Why don't you set up a blog to share your knowledge instead of ranting? I think I suggested this before. You'd get much more coverage and probably have more impact.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Here are a few useful links:


https://www.bourns.com/pdfs/bourns_gdt_white_paper.pdf


http://www.protekdevices.com/Assets/Documents/Technical_Articles/ta1003.pdf


http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/resistor/varistor.html

Three companies, three components and each will emphasize the need for their particular components. The gas tube discharge device can handle currents that would blow a TVS diode or varistor clear out of the rig and over the hill.

The MOV is a good device but reacts too slowly to protect against positive and negative spikes that slowly but surely erode silicon junction integrity and drill holes through electrolytic capacitors.

The Transient Voltage Suppressor is an avalanche diode. It has a breakdown voltage an avalanche voltage. When that voltage is reached it shunts across the junction. For AC use two diodes are contained in one device each facing the other. A TVS reacts instantly but has a limited current carrying capability for sustained events.

The object of using all three devices is that one compliments the other two. I choose 190-volts for the TVS rating bcause the rating has to factor peak-to-peak and not RMS voltage.

The gas tube discharge device can handle an enormous amount of sustained current.

But NONE of these devices can do a thing for continuous high (or low) voltage. For that a voltage correction device like an autoformer is indicated.

For exquisitely delicate electronics, a full isolation transformer is the filter of choice, but again, such a transformer is a filter and not a voltage correction device.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

An informed consumer asks questions. The right questions BEFORE HE BUYS something.

My ***** is that the word SURGE SUPPRESSOR is being used as a buzzword. "Buy a SURGE SUPPRESSOR and all your troubles go down the drain".

With batteries, charging systems and electrical devices I try my hardest to educate anyone willing to listen to ask THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. I am poverty-stricken so trying to play the part of CONSUMER REPORTS is ludicrous, financially as well as logistically.

I have ZERO SYMPATHY for anyone who is aware of controversy in hypermarketed gizmos who is too lazy to pick up a telephone and call the manufacturer or distributor of a device whose value is hundreds of dollars. It is their choice. Not mine.

It is also not the least responsibility of my own to do ten minutes of research for someone. It COSTS MONEY to telephone a company from Mexico and it takes time. I do it when I have questions about a purchase. Someone who has ten times the income as myself who is too lazy to telephone a non twenty-dollar telephone call deserves what he gets.

I point out an extremely valid weakness in electrical protection circuitry. A vulnerability that can cost a consumer many hundreds of dollars short term and a small fortune in long term shortened lifespan of components.

I explain how and I explain why, in plain English. If some folks could care less then it's their pony and western. In the process someone says "Hey wait! The Fratchamajigger 3000 has those things, then we all learn and benefit.

Too many companies engage in sleazy or ignorant engineering and manufacturing practices. Buzz Words are slung around like BS in a barn. When I manufactured alternators I played things on the straight and narrow. When I tested batteries when I spent a King's Ransom on R&D for pulse desulfation, I played things on the straight and narrow. No hyperbole, no gibberish, and no salesmanship.

It really frosted my orbs when I disassembled a fifty-dollar gift (my birthday) SURGE SUPPRESSOR and found thirty-cents worth of MOVS. The area is a plain ripoff. Genuine suppressors should have around seven dollars (retail) worth of LARGE MOV's, a five dollar GAS TUBE DISCHARGE component and a buck's worth of TVs connected to line, neutral and earth. These are retail prices. OEM gets a tremendous price break.

Tech Writer if you are serious about Helping - can you contact the companies you inquired about and find out if they are even willing to reveal IF they have anything more than a few MOVs inside them?

Other HELPFUL contributors can telephone HUGHES and other voltage correction device manufacturers and do the same thing. DO YOUR AUTOFORMERS CONTAIN GAS TUBE DISCHARGE AND/OR TRANSIENT VOLTAGE SUPPRESSOR DEVICES?

I for one will be interested in their replies. I will be especially interested to hear "Oh those things are not needed in our miracle device"

[pianotuna]

Hi Tech,

While I'm sure there are surge devices that are good, there are none that meet my particular needs. The low voltage cut outs are too low for my peace of mind.

Right now I have neither a surge device nor an autoformer. If I were going to get something, the autoformer would be more useful to me.

Folks who have 50 amp service should use the best they can afford. For myself, on my 30 amp service, I'll continue to manually check before I plug in the RV.

[TechWriter]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Are you saying Power Master TRC Franks brands use TVS, avalanche rectifiers? Gas tube discharge transient voltage control systems? If they do come forth and spit it out.

When you make statements like "very few 'Surge Protectors' are worth a plugged-nickel," is it any wonder that someone would want to know exactly which ones are worth a plugged nickel?

[thestoloffs]

smkettner wrote:
What happened to Power Master web page? was www.powermasterrv.com afaik

That was the correct URL, but they failed to keep up their payments to GoDaddy.com for the domain license.

Their major distributor is RV Performance Products, so you might try them for information on whether PM is still in production.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

TechWriter

I AM IN MEXICO NOT MINNEAPOLIS.

GET TO THE POINT

Arecyou saying Power Master TRC Franks brands use TVS, avalanche rectifiers? Gas tube discharge transient voltage control systems? If they do come forth and spit it out. "Such and such unit does indeed have TVS devices.

AUTOFORMERS ARE VOLTAGE CONTROL OR MODIFICATION DEVICES

AUTOFORMERS ARE NOT COMMONLY CALLED SURGE CONTROLS DEVICES.

Each does a specific and much needed job of protection.

But an autoformer can maintain 120.00 volts and if it has little or no transient voltage suppression capability it will allow both positive and negative voltage spikes to pass which eat transistors and integrated circuits for lunch. The HUGHS units I dug through with a stick looked like a small PC board supported three small MOVS and three small MOVS do not offer even a modicum of protection against severe power line disturbances. Aapliances

And if the voltage control device has nothing but a couple of MOVs then it is near worthless for severe transient voltage spikes Both positive and ngative oriented.

Clue me in

DO YOUR BRANDS HAVE TVS CIRCUITS? YES, OR NO?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

TechWriter

I AM IN MEXICO NOT MINNEAPOLIS.

GET TO THE POINT

Arecyou saying Power Master TRC Franks brands use TVS, avalanche rectifiers? Gas tube discharge transient voltage control systems? If they do come forth and spit it out. "Such and such unit does indeed have TVS devices.

AUTOFORMERS ARE VOLTAGE CONTROL OR MODIFICATION DEVICES

AUTOFORMERS ARE NOT COMMONLY CALLED SURGE CONTROLS DEVICES

And if the voltage control device has nothing but a couple of MOVs then it is near worthless for severe transient voltage spikes Both positive and ngative oriented.

Clue me in

SO YOUR BRANDS HAVE TVS CIRCUITS? YES, OR NO?

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The triplight seems to be more fully featured than the others. Too bad is is only 2400 watts.

[time2roll]

If spending money today I would have a PowerMaster first, then TRC or Hughes, and very very last is Frank's.

What happened to Power Master web page? was www.powermasterrv.com afaik



If one air conditioner is the primary concern consider a TrippLite LC2400 on the branch circuit.

http://www.tripplite.com/line-conditioner-2400w-avr-system-automatic-voltage-regulator-power-conditi...

[TechWriter]

TechWriter wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
TRIPP LITE, HUGHES AUTO FORMER, BELKEN for starters. An autoformer whose name was obliterated. About ten or so of the above brands PLUS many other brands whose names did not register. Then I gave up. You gotta brand-name up your sleeve or what?

Franks? PowerMaster? TRC's Voltage Regulator?

I'll interpret your silence as a "No".

[TechWriter]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
TRIPP LITE, HUGHES AUTO FORMER, BELKEN for starters. An autoformer whose name was obliterated. About ten or so of the above brands PLUS many other brands whose names did not register. Then I gave up. You gotta brand-name up your sleeve or what?

Franks? PowerMaster? TRC's Voltage Regulator?

[Monaco_Montclai]

Now I use them sur first, and auto second , way I do it , now it's all happy-camping