Solar or Generator??

[Ramblin_Recks]

We are going to have some short boon-docking trips (3-4 days). I do not know my actual energy needs right now, but the DW and I are conservative when it comes to water and power. I really just want to get the biggest return on my $1400.00 budget for this project.

So initially I plan to get 2 T-145s, Trimetric monitor, and then I get bogged down solar or generator…

If it is a generator, I’m leaning towards a Honda EU2000i, or a Yamaha EF2400SHC and a new converter/charger (like maybe PowerMax PM4B Boondocker).

I’m thinking the generator is more versatile and could be used for other tasks than charging the batteries. I know I need to carry gasoline, but that’s ok.

If its solar, I’m thinking this system is “set-it and forget-it”, once it is installed making it easy to keep the batteries charged… but only to charge batteries. I think I would need to buy 4 T-145s (or 105) for solar. Then I start

thinking about my pin weight, I have not got mine weighed yet , but 4 batteries would be about 250-300 lbs., and we added the W/D Stack in the front closet. My BFT can handle it, but I like to keep the “weight police” at bay ;).

Solar or Generator??

Thanks for your thoughts.

[pianotuna]

Hi pnichols,

Yes, in my 28'5" class c, which I now full time in. OEM allowed for 3 group 29, and I gave up one storage compartment for 4 more.

A fuel cell would be great. Now where did I put that winning lottery ticket?

Current temperature is -20 f (-29 c) and NO I'm not boondocking. I'm using about 4600 watts of electric heat. Thank god for the magic carpets (electrically heated), or the floor would freeze water.

pnichols wrote:
You have a tremendous battery bank for the size of your RV (are you doing this in your 28 foot Class C?)

Boy ... would I like that fuel cell to do it right!!

[Almot]

pnichols wrote:
We would do two weeks in chilly, wet weather by running the 650 watt Honda every second day and idling the V10 for a short while about every five or six days.

Right. And the OP asked about "3-4 days boondocking". There is no need to run 650 watt Honda or idling V10 for that, not in a chilly weather for sure. People that already have a genny, are trying to justify its cost - which ironically can only be done by spending more...

[JiminDenver]

And Just what would some of you do in a CG that didn't allow generators?

You wouldn't put yourself in that situation just as I wouldn't expect my solar to keep up in the shade.

We could go a week there on battery without having to suffer, two in minimalist mode. Even that is better than the decades of primitive/ tent camping we did before. Then again we don't have to. Our solar is just part of the system, just as the generator is.

[Almot]

BFL13 wrote:
We use 160Ah/day doing that at 35F and PT's solar would give us 15 AH using his figures.

So this is why BFL13 is grumpy. Got stuck in a trailer with 160w solar where sun doesn't shine, gas for generator costs more than on the mainland and it snows for 2nd day in row :)...
Here is a bad news - tomorrow it's going to be cooler than today.

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi pnichols,

See my post to BFL

Don ... thanks. You did indeed provide a detailed analysis.

Basically, you're doing it by somewhat invoking some of the extremes I jokingly listed:

- You have a tremendous battery bank for the size of your RV (are you doing this in your 28 foot Class C?). You may not need a trailer load of batteries behind it like I listed, however you do have a lot of battery volume that must be consuming valuable cargo space that otherwise should/could be carrying a lot of other essentials. Many of the "other essentials" we carry instead of batteries are necessary for maximum anywhere, anytime, any-theme camping flexibility. We do all our drycamping with 200 amp hours of AGM batteru capacity carried only right where Winnebago intended - under the step.

- We carry a full compliment of window insulation at all times but hesitate to use it except for extreme cold. We would not use it on merely cloudy, wet 35-45 degree stays in Oregon, Washington, or Canada. We like more light coming inside.

- We do have block-off curtains for three areas inside the RV. The one we most always use in cool weather is the one that blocks off the cab area, as Ford did not insulate this area anywhere near as well as Winnebago insulated the coach area.

- Your furnace usage looks way lower than "comfortable" to me. On cloudy, wet 35-45 degree stays we WOULD NOT sit outside under the awning all bundled up ... nor would we sit inside all bundled up. We would sit inside in light long-sleeves or short-sleeves reading or watching moves with the furnace set at 70-72 during the day and set at 60-62 during the nights to both be as comfortable as at home, and prevent any mold/mildew buildup inside the RV in moist, cold weather. This is what we spent the big RV bucks for .... not minimalist living in a box. Even with this kind of furnace usage, two weeks is completely doable with our 18 gallon propane tank.

- We also have had full LED lighting in our RV ever since it was bleeding edge to have them ... around five or six years now. I discovered long ago this secret to "adding" battery capacity.

We would do two weeks in chilly, wet weather by running the 650 watt Honda every second day and idling the V10 for a short while about every five or six days.

Boy ... would I like that fuel cell to do it right!!

[NinerBikes]

It's nice to have options. Solar panels, generators, or both. Choice is yours.

[pianotuna]

Hi BFL13, Almot and mena,

Since I do have a generator I would undoubtedly use it. I agree with BFL13, I don't rv because I wish to suffer.

[BFL13]

We use 160Ah/day doing that at 35F and PT's solar would give us 15 AH using his figures. I think we would get a little behind!

Nobody would pay us extra to go without the things we like while RVing so we didn't need a generator, so we have a generator.

As always, it is up to the individual what is "worth it" and you can set-up the RV to get you by for all sorts of ways to camp.

Going without does not give anyone moral superiority, contrary to some religions. Self-flagellation is not part of how we RV. YMMV. 🙂

[Almot]

pianotuna wrote:
BFL13 specified 35 f. I don't think I could do 30 F for two weeks, not unless I had quite a bit of sunshine.

If I can figure out a way to add 800 more watts of solar, the generator won't get used much at all.

You could - probably - do 30-35F for two weeks with catalytic heater and no sunshine. Amorphous panels still harvest a bit in overcast. But longer than two weeks it would be hard on batteries.

[pianotuna]

Hi mena,

I bought the generator because I needed to use an air conditioner for a relative with health issues. I also bought it because I knew I would be going full time in the fall. I did not get my covers until late November 2013.

BFL13 specified 35 f. I don't think I could do 30 F for two weeks, not unless I had quite a bit of sunshine.

If I can figure out a way to add 800 more watts of solar, the generator won't get used much at all.

[Almot]

mena661 wrote:
IMO, you just aren't going to do two weeks without a generator with overcast skies, trees over your head and 30F or lower days.

Correct. Overcast skies AND trees over your head AND two weeks stay is difficult without a generator. Remove any of these 3 conditions and it becomes doable.

Edit: have just read post by Dave/Crosscheck. Confirms what I have concluded long time ago - extremely hot weather is the only scenario when you really need a genny. Most people won't listen though.

[mena661]

PT, didn't you buy a generator because your solar and battery bank wasn't enough? IMO, you just aren't going to do two weeks without a generator with overcast skies, trees over your head and 30F or lower days.

[Almot]

pnichols wrote:
... photo showing a darkly clouded (and kindof chilly?) campsite is exactly why I feel an RV generator (or fuel cell 😄 ) should always be part of one's RV equipment mix.

For us to get way out away from home base and wind up for a few days in a no-choice campsite like that with no generator would be lunacy

Generator is needed when it's either hot, or you drycamp camp for several days without solar. Cool and dark weather requires an adequate heating and insulation, not an A/C. "For a few days" you don't need a generator on a campsite like this.

[pianotuna]

Hi pnichols,

See my post to BFL

[crosscheck]

The bottom line is if you do not have shore power, amp/hrs drawn from the batteries have to be replaced or the batteries are toast. Everyone has different camping life styles requiring different energy needs.

Solar has made huge gains in the RV sector in the last 10 years but it still is not the magic pill. It will replace amp/hrs, if not in long term shady or cloudy situations, if the system is adequate.

Energy conservation and changing existing systems to energy efficient such as LED lighting etc. can help make for self sufficient off grid camping.

Our 10 day trip to Powell River in July/12 was extremely wet but we did not use the the genny at all and no shore power.

Solar and alternator were the power sources. It was a peacefull trip.



Rained buckets and was cloudy every day. Our fridge cycled very little as the temps were 62F-45F. July long week end and we were alone.



Another wet portage on the Powell Lakes canoe circuit.

Dave