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Whats the current best VENT FAN?

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Tell me there is some unknown company who makes decent quality fans!?!? My buddy has a fantastic fan that is 1 year old and hes having to modify it just to work again. After the 1st motor died.

I see the maxxair lineup. The price makes me want to build my own. Which i did. A window unit pulling air through a home AC filter. Was cheap to make and works good. Just too loud utilizing a cheap radiator fan.

Has anyone found cheap and quiet 4" blowers? Thought about using those to blow through a filter and get nice clean cool air into the RV.
79 REPLIES 79

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Man this forum is not like others. Tried posting the video 3 different ways.

Copy paste this if you want.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P61Q1T4hsHo

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Ive been testing the performance of fans and have some really interesting data. Compared the Attwood Turbo 4000 blower to the 140mm and 120mm Noctua 3000rpm fans.

The data i got yesterday was not what i expected, so i tested it all again today a second time.

Heres a video from yesterday still early in the testing. This is the Attwood blower. While getting 13.5v input it was able to dim down to 0.25amps on lowest PWM setting. I had not tested the computer fans at this point.




wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Meaning if the 4" blower doesn't even turn down low I will use the 140mm Noctua regardless of top end or mid range performance.

The blower might win overall due to its design of working with long runs of ducting.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
I hear ya it's clear higher rpm allows the fan to produce higher static pressure. As you wrote much earlier in the thread for the purpose of pushing or sucking air through filters and ducts a fan with higher static is what you need. Makes sense.

While the thread is called roof vent it turns out I'm ditching that idea.

Bought a 80mm for a truck interior vent. Wanted to compare static pressure of Silverstone and Noctua. SS makes a powerful 80mm with high static but it's sleeve bearing and pulled 4w. To much for my little 1.5w panel. (Will double check...its old and only 4x10 inches big)

Also looked at the 120mm size to use on my air conditioning ducts. Again as I learned from this thread higher static is ideal.

Generally speaking it seems radiator fans are high static while case cooling is more cfm flow. Although the positive pressure is something I'm seeing with case fans where you want both pressure and high cfm.

Noctua rocks at both, while drawing little power. Thanks again landyacht for introducing them.

Ended up buying the pwm dimmer. 80mm 2200rpm and 120mm 3000rpm. So stoked they come Thursday.

A good point LY made was how low can you turn down the blower fan versus something like the 140mm 3k. I'm going test those mammer jammers. Been thinking of ways to do this.

I need to buy rigid 4" ducting regardless. Will make a testing tube out of it. Hook each fan to it with an amp meter. On the exit side put a wind meter.

I will compare everything. How much flow for how many watts. Even blade rpm I have a lot of measuring toys from playing with rc planes.

I think the blower will blow away the 140mm in top end air flow. Which I won't even use often. Curious to see what performs better trying to move air through about 4 feet of 4" ducting with an auto air filter attached.

Actually I will have to try testing everything with and without air filter restriction.

Noise is also a concern. Got to think a basic decibel app exists for a cell phone. Don't need accuracy just need consistency. For all the stuff really. Glue the wind meter so it never changes.

The 140mm box fan will need a small cardboard box to transition to 4" round on both sides. The design of that could really hurt the 140mm.

Unless the 4"blower won't run slow enough on PWM. Can't wait to find out.

MEXICOWANDERER
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Explorer
One point five WATTS? Check that against one point five AMPS,

One point five watts watts would recharge a AA battery in ten years

landyacht318
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Explorer
I do not know.

if one can compare the static pressure rating of a 80MM fan vs a 120Mm fan.

I am not sure how the test is performed.

Is a 80mm fan pulling a 80mm column of water up 2.2mm comparable to a 120Mm fan pulling a 120Mm column of water that same distance?


generally high rpmas are going to do well on the static pressure test, and comparing the fans of the same size that have equal results on that, then one can then make assessments as to ampdraw for that staic pressure, and which one is rated for hier airflow(CFM)

Generally noctua seems to perform very well considering the noise made for static pressure, and the nf f12 for its 0.05 amp draw and static pressure is hard to beat.

Ther is another very respected lineup of fans called gentle typhoon from nidec. These are known to perform very well when attached to a computer heatsink.

The latest Noctua 120Mm flagship model's impeller blade shape has remarkable resembelance to the gentle typhoon. Me thinks a patent has expired.

Real world tests in specific usages could easily make the static pressure and cfm ratings, not line up like scared ducks.

The gentle typhoon fan comes in many different rpms, and they used to have a screaming banshee version with 4K+ rpm available, which seemed
to be highly regarded in the overclocker world, but it looks like it is discontinued.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Will check the voltage of the solar panel. It's only 1.5w and came with my used truck.

Can also see how the 140mm 3k rpm column of air comes out.

Today I'm driving and sitting in the car. Made this list comparing Silverstone and noctua fans. My interest was towards static pressure and watts for smaller 80mm-120mm fans.

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
I sucessfully built a PWM dimmer, but it required feeding a PWM generator a 5v signal then the PWM generator hooked to the blue wire.

I was like this is way too clunky and ineffcient. I became aware of the NOctua speed controller shortly afterwards and the 25$ I spent on it was well worth it and basically less than what i spent on enough components to build 5 clunky PWM speed controllers

What kind of voltage is that little solar panel producing when not hooked to the fan? What is it putting out when powering the fan?


I've not tried to voltage speed control Noctua's, other than they get what I am feeding the battery.

The silverstones have speed control circuitry controlled by the 10k ohm potentiometer. the potentiometer is not in itself the variable resistor directly reducing the fan speed. That potentiometer can only handle 0.5 watts or so, and likely not for very long.

That 140Mm noctua, when running and upright on a table surface, how wide is the flow? Are there flow 'hotspots' at wide angles or a seemingly more narrow column of air pushed out in front of it?

The Delta fans with the spiral blades on the hub support are awesome at keeping the column of air moved dense and narrow. maKes a great directional fan to aim where needed.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Got to play with the fans today. Nice and organized as you can see. Still waiting on the PWM motor speed controllers.

Tested the 4" blower and the 140mm 4 pin fan using my cheapo LED PWM dimmer. Which landYacht taught us is not the correct frequency. It produced a loud buzz on both fans. Also tried a little LED analog dimmer. That also produced a buzz.

Wondering why the little voltage dimmer does not work? I have some of those blue buck/boost voltage regulators as well, but need to find them. Was hoping my little dimmer knob would work like the dimmer that comes with the FM181.

Held off buying the 4pin Noctua PWM dimmer just to save 20 bucks for now. Will get one eventually. Plan was to do voltage dimming on the 140mm fan but thats not working out.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
First test trying to cool the truck. Its a 40x20 noctua, powered by a little solar panel on the windshield. Using tape to help seal it. This fan is for my fridge and using it to test the truck fan idea.

Pretty sure its working. Cant be positive because its cooling down outside. But after 30-45 i went back in the truck and it felt much cooler. 45 mins prior i came out sweating.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
(email from Noctua regarding fans in an RV getting over 12v. i trust landYacht's real world experience over what a rep can say. its nice they replied noctua got my money i bought a 140mm 3000k and 40mm for the fridge)

Dear Tony,

thank you for your interest in our products.

The general rule for 12V fans is +10%, which means 13.2V is the maximum allowed voltage.
PWM does not influence the height of the input voltage, thus it won't make a difference.

In practice 13.5V won't make the fan burn so I guess it should be ok but it is on your own risk.
If you want to be sure that you are within spec you can use a resistor on the input line.

Kind regards,
Andreas Karner
Noctua support team

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
Here would be my strategy if I wanted to fill the guts of an endless breeze fan with computer fans.

I would have 3 NF-f12 3000 Ippc industrial Noctuas (120mm)on the NA-FC1 speed controller. It comes with a 3 way splitter to power and control 3 fans, and you can run each yellow wire(+) to your Alpha and Omega military switch and control them separately.

These three fans can move 330CFM for 0.9 amps, and with the speed control, one can dial them all the way to dead silent and almost no air moved and amp draw under 0.03, for all three fans.

Keep in mind that 110cfm per fan is at 12.00volts. It is obvious they spin significantly faster when I plug in my powersupply and push system voltage upto 14.7, and the generaly high voltage that a lifeline AGM holds during discharge will have them beat their ratings.

With the speed controller I see no reason to switch all three of these fans separately though, as at minimum speed One can almost count the number of rotations of the impeller by eye and the amp draw is so low as to be hard to measure. The noctua speed controller has a button. If the green light is on then with the dial all the way on low the fans will spin at their absolute minimum rpm. press the button adn the light goes off and they will stop spinning completely, and the amber light stays on, and I cannot measure its amp draw.

The whole range of speeds inbetween minimum and max will allow for maximum function and efficiency, at the spin of a dial.

The Noctua NA-fc1 speed controller measures about 1.5 inches long, one inch wide and half an inch thick. the knob for the potentiometer is about 1/4 inch in diameter. It is much smaller than the pictures led me to believe.

I consider the fan controlling thermostat, to be in the same league as the 50 cent logic chip controlling a smart charger. I'd prefer to choose the flow, by spinning a dial. But yor fan, your call.

The fourth fan, amp draw and noise no problem, would be the 252 CFM screaming banshee Delta fan. Put it on the bottom as it will likely tip the endless breeze fan over if up higher. This fan redefines powerful. It will chop off a stray fingertip, and putting a 120mm wire grill close behind it does significantly reduce flow and increase its noise, but it basically has to be there as it will suck in passing children into it at 12v, and at 14.42v you should probably lean away from it if walking behind it.

If you have 3 industrial NF-f12s at 3k RPM each and the 252 cfm and 5400 rpm, you are looking at a Beast of a fan, that will consume just under 4 amps. 582 cfm at 12.0 volts.

Turn off the Delta fan and with the noctua speed controller you can control flow from ~ 30 cfm to 330 cfm, 0.04 amps to 0.9 amps.

The noctuas while loud at 3k rpm, are not as high pitched annoying as other fans with the same decible rating

The delta screaming banshee 252cmf monster is rated at 3.82 amps but it settles in the 3 amp range once at speed and at max speed one might have issues hearing a nearby Sikorsky in heat.

I use my screaming banshee in my workshop, and at 7 to 8 feet away from it, and it is like a 20Mph breeze in a 4 foot column hitting my body, and or simply used to blow away dust that i am at that moment creating. That is likely at just under 12 volts with voltage drop on my wiring to it, and with a finger guard in place. If I got earbuds in listening to music it is great. If I have my earphones out and am outside the workshop 100 feet away, I can hear it, easily.

The regular noctua NF-f12 is 1500 rpm, moves 53 cfm for 0.05 amps. Its price is only slightly less than the industrial 3000 rpm Noctuas NF-f12's. It is exremely efficient, but 1500rpm/53 cfm is not a huge volume of air, though the hub support does concentrate the flow pretty nicely in a column, but not to the same degree as the spiral hub supports on the higher rpm Delta fans.

I do not have a tach and am not willing to dismount my nf-f12s for an subjective test of airflow and compare amperage readings, but the 3 phase motors of the Noctua industrial fans are claimed to be 10% more efficient, and no other 120mm fan comes close to the NF-f12 in terms of air moved for amperage consumed.

Throttling the screaming banshee 120mm Delta fan via PWM on the fourth wire can be done, I just have not pursued it to that endpoint. One youtube video shows one guy was successful doing it, although I do not know the amp draw when slowed to tolerable levels.
Looks like this fan is also relabelled, but I would prefer the delta name brand sticker on teh hub.

https://www.amazon.com/TFC1212DE-5200RPM-Bitcoin-Powerful-cooling/dp/B076M7CT63/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_147_t...

Noctua does make the 140MM fans, but their amp draw for air moved is not as impressive as the 120MM nf-f12, and multiple 140MM might not fit all that well in the endless breeze casing, and I have no personal experience with them. But generally bigger fans, mean more air moved for less noise. They do have step down rings to use 140mm fans in 120mm applications,so one can likely offset the 140mm fans and fit them into the endless breeze case with these step down rings.

Depending on what one can actually fit in the endless breeze fan, the Silverstone 180Mm fans are a good performers too, but the AP182 does not like max speed at battery charging voltages, the hub gets stinky plastic hot. Its spiral grill concentrates the flow nicely, but is also fairly restrictive, and that is why I believe the 700 less rpm of the fm181 (at 0.29 amps)comes within 15cfm of the Ap182( at 1.3 amps and 2k rpm). Both are rated the same airflow at minimum speed, 65 cfm, but the Ap182 does it for 0.05 amps and the fm181 consumes 0.09.

A 180Mm fan with several 80 MM high rpm delta fans surrounding it could also meet your requirements.

I have cut off the spiral faceplate of my failed silverstone Ap182 and attached it to my fm181, not for the concentrating flow, but as a finger guard. The flow through it is less with the grille in place. I've considered removing some of the spiral arms to lessen restriction, but likely will not ever bother.

If i were to redesign my intake fan shroud from scratch, I would likely use 2 fm181's side by side and a single 3K rpm noctua 140MM fan.

But the 3K rpm 120mm noctuas have higher static pressure rating and likely force more air into the van if I do not have a window open. My ceiling exhaust I estimate at 150 cfm max, and the intake fans would push some 380cfm without any restriction behind them.

If my side door is cracked, and I have all my fans on high intake and exhaust, air is spilling out that crack. I can feel it from 4 inches away.

Now if i were to have the screaming banshee fan also assisting the other intake fans, you would hear manicial laughing even from across the border.

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Question for LY:

Gut the motor and blades in an Endless breeze. Leaves about 11" x 11"
wide open. Wide open choice for Noctua fanselection...

Will have on-on-on mil-spec toggle switch. Three steps

Step one. Most efficient air movement but must provide enough air to feel it on a hot and humid night six feet distant. Why efficient? Limited battery amp hours may have to survive 15 hours a day for 2 days of outage. Battery is a 130 A/H AGM that powers a no humidifier BiPAP

Step 2. Two additional fans come online. Perhaps (?) 4 times the air movement of step one.

Step 3. Monster CFM air movement. Noise is no object. Keep in mind fan operation will be cumulative. One fan, then three fans, then four fans.

Yes efficiency is important because of limited ampere hours. Or would 4 identical fans be more rational?

I would like to keep sum total of THREE fans as efficient as possible and have super CFM with fan 4 and only operate it when A/C is available and running through a power brick.

Which Noctuas would you select? Remember, the lowest setting is for two hyper efficient Noctuas. Or is the benefits of twin ultra efficient fan operation not worth the trouble?

Let's design this critter for 24/7/365 (5) years continuous operation.

The fan will have a dial thermostat with integral shutoff switch.

This isn't a fantasy. I have a dead FF and want to resurrect it.

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
The Noctuas are fine at battery charging voltages. ihave one of their 60 and one of their 80MM models on my powersupply which has spent hours at 16.2v and thousands of hours at 14.7.

Likewise my noctua fans on my intake are seeing absorption voltages at full speed most every day, for many hours on end.

With only one amp of draw max on my 3 intake fans, there is not much voltage drop on the few feet of 18awg or the several feet of 10AWg which feed them.

The one Noctua fan which failed me, I told them it was likely receiving 14.7v when it failed, to give them an out.
They did not take it.

wopachop
Explorer
Explorer
Quick question generally speaking can most Noctua fans handle 13.5v?
I wrote customer service right now.
Learned with RC toys that even using PWM can fry boards if the voltage is too high.