Canadian Full-Timers

[SabreCanuck]

Hello All,

DW and I have been thinking/dreaming of a life on the road but being from Canada and being restricted to ## of days/year out of the country I'm curious what other Canadian Full-timers may offer for advice as to how you manage that time?

We are thinking we would:
SPRING/FALL in warmer parts of Canada (interior BC?, Southern ON)
SUMMER wherever you want in Canada
WINTER travelling down South. (Nov-Mar?)

What do other Canucks do to manage the restrictions?

I have also heard of Canucks that are gone year round which makes me wonder "what exactly do you lose" if you forget about the restriction and just go. Would love to travel the U.S. year round but not if that means losing major benefits of being Canuck. I have searched a bit on the topic and read pages and pages of the RULES but I have never got a clear understanding of what happens when you break those rules? Does my left arm fall off?? LOL

[SabreCanuck]

John & Angela wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:

sue.t wrote:
According to a 2014 article from Business News Network being in the U.S. or out of Canada too long can result in the following:

1. Banned from travel to U.S. if unlawfully present. Canadians who remain in the U.S. for more than 183 days in a rolling 12-month period risk being deemed unlawfully present, the consequences of which are: a) a 3-year travel ban if unlawfully present for between 183 and 365 days; and b) a 10-year travel ban if unlawfully present for more than 365 days.

2. Liability for U.S. income tax on worldwide income. The U.S. taxes American citizens and U.S. residents on their worldwide income. If the snowbird is present in the U.S. for too many days he risks becoming deemed a U.S. resident and therefore subject to tax on his worldwide income.

3. Liability for U.S. estate tax on fair market value of worldwide assets. The U.S. also taxes U.S. citizens and U.S. residents on the fair market value of their worldwide assets at death. Unfortunately the definition of U.S. resident for estate tax is fundamentally different than the definition for U.S. income tax purposes. The result is that the heirs of the uninformed snowbird can find their inheritance subject to the U.S. estate tax.

4. Liability for Canadian departure tax. Canada taxes its residents on their worldwide income. Once a Canadian resident is no longer a resident he is deemed to have disposed all of his assets (subject to exceptions), recognize the gain on those assets, and pay tax on that gain. Whether an individual is no longer a resident is a facts and circumstances test; however, a big factor in that analysis is day count. Therefore, the snowbird who spends too much time in the U.S. risks a nasty Canadian tax surprise.

5. Loss of provincial health care. Canadian residents are entitled to participate in provincial health services. Once an individual is no longer a resident of the particular province, he loses this entitlement. Of course, the rules for "residency" in the health care context are different than those discussed above.

Thank you for this direct answer to my question.

🙂

Although an interesting summary it is definitely not an official document. Number 4 for example, Canadians routinely maintain their residency while travelling for extensive periods around the world. It also seems to imply that a Canadian who spends too much time in the US specifically somehow risks their residency of Canada questioned. If you live in Canada, house, utilities, insurance, banking etc, there is no question of your residency. You may simply be on an extended trip or education in another country or countries. Interesting article but not something you want to "take to the bank" so to speak.

I appreciate EVERYONE's feedback. After my original post stated our intentions Sue.t's answer was the closest to what I was looking for. I didn't ask about traveling the rest of the world, I didn't say I was a truck driver, I didn't say we would not keep our house here, nor did I ask about TD Visa cards, etc. Some of it was interesting reading however not relevant to our situation or really answering the intention of my post.

I believe Sue.t was the most complete answer to my original post and wanted to thank him/her.

Happy Bunny!

[John___Angela]

SabreCanuck wrote:

sue.t wrote:
According to a 2014 article from Business News Network being in the U.S. or out of Canada too long can result in the following:

1. Banned from travel to U.S. if unlawfully present. Canadians who remain in the U.S. for more than 183 days in a rolling 12-month period risk being deemed unlawfully present, the consequences of which are: a) a 3-year travel ban if unlawfully present for between 183 and 365 days; and b) a 10-year travel ban if unlawfully present for more than 365 days.

2. Liability for U.S. income tax on worldwide income. The U.S. taxes American citizens and U.S. residents on their worldwide income. If the snowbird is present in the U.S. for too many days he risks becoming deemed a U.S. resident and therefore subject to tax on his worldwide income.

3. Liability for U.S. estate tax on fair market value of worldwide assets. The U.S. also taxes U.S. citizens and U.S. residents on the fair market value of their worldwide assets at death. Unfortunately the definition of U.S. resident for estate tax is fundamentally different than the definition for U.S. income tax purposes. The result is that the heirs of the uninformed snowbird can find their inheritance subject to the U.S. estate tax.

4. Liability for Canadian departure tax. Canada taxes its residents on their worldwide income. Once a Canadian resident is no longer a resident he is deemed to have disposed all of his assets (subject to exceptions), recognize the gain on those assets, and pay tax on that gain. Whether an individual is no longer a resident is a facts and circumstances test; however, a big factor in that analysis is day count. Therefore, the snowbird who spends too much time in the U.S. risks a nasty Canadian tax surprise.

5. Loss of provincial health care. Canadian residents are entitled to participate in provincial health services. Once an individual is no longer a resident of the particular province, he loses this entitlement. Of course, the rules for "residency" in the health care context are different than those discussed above.

Thank you for this direct answer to my question.

🙂

Although an interesting summary it is definitely not an official document. Number 4 for example, Canadians routinely maintain their residency while travelling for extensive periods around the world. It also seems to imply that a Canadian who spends too much time in the US specifically somehow risks their residency of Canada questioned. If you live in Canada, house, utilities, insurance, banking etc, there is no question of your residency. You may simply be on an extended trip or education in another country or countries. Interesting article but not something you want to "take to the bank" so to speak.

[SabreCanuck]

sue.t wrote:
According to a 2014 article from Business News Network being in the U.S. or out of Canada too long can result in the following:

1. Banned from travel to U.S. if unlawfully present. Canadians who remain in the U.S. for more than 183 days in a rolling 12-month period risk being deemed unlawfully present, the consequences of which are: a) a 3-year travel ban if unlawfully present for between 183 and 365 days; and b) a 10-year travel ban if unlawfully present for more than 365 days.

2. Liability for U.S. income tax on worldwide income. The U.S. taxes American citizens and U.S. residents on their worldwide income. If the snowbird is present in the U.S. for too many days he risks becoming deemed a U.S. resident and therefore subject to tax on his worldwide income.

3. Liability for U.S. estate tax on fair market value of worldwide assets. The U.S. also taxes U.S. citizens and U.S. residents on the fair market value of their worldwide assets at death. Unfortunately the definition of U.S. resident for estate tax is fundamentally different than the definition for U.S. income tax purposes. The result is that the heirs of the uninformed snowbird can find their inheritance subject to the U.S. estate tax.

4. Liability for Canadian departure tax. Canada taxes its residents on their worldwide income. Once a Canadian resident is no longer a resident he is deemed to have disposed all of his assets (subject to exceptions), recognize the gain on those assets, and pay tax on that gain. Whether an individual is no longer a resident is a facts and circumstances test; however, a big factor in that analysis is day count. Therefore, the snowbird who spends too much time in the U.S. risks a nasty Canadian tax surprise.

5. Loss of provincial health care. Canadian residents are entitled to participate in provincial health services. Once an individual is no longer a resident of the particular province, he loses this entitlement. Of course, the rules for "residency" in the health care context are different than those discussed above.

Thank you for this direct answer to my question.

🙂

[John___Angela]

garyhaupt wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

garyhaupt wrote:
Okay..no fair....what is the Schengen Zone? I mean...commmooonnnnnnn.....geeez

I should not be having to do this, eh...broken leg and all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area


Gary Haupt

heh heh. Good morning Gary. The schengen zone is a HUGE PAIN THE ASSETS for those of us who want to schlepp around europe for a year or so. But, with a little creative planning you can work around it. For us it means arriving in Holland in march, but the RV hit the road straight for southern Italy. Then slowly work our way back to France so on day 85 or so (fudge factor) we can take the chunnel crossing to Jolly old england for 3 months or so. Then back to europe for another 90 days, and then down to Morocco for 90 days. Morocco is very cool and can't wait to get back there. We will have radar (our chihuahua) with us and things get tricky with rabies certificates when leaving and returning to the Schengen from North Africa, so yet another challenge. Meh, its all fun. 🙂

You are buying an RV over there? There has to be a reason for not shipping yours...inquiring minds NEED to know this. I have looked at it..I think it was about 5 grand, each way and I sorta thought, that was better than renting and all. I was thinking of a year..but perhaps doing it in segments.


Gary Haupt

You know Gary we haven't ruled out shipping our little 22 foot rig but lean towards buying a 24 footer in Holland. Parts for V10'a are hard to come by over there and I think we may be better off taking the hit on the 1 or 2 years of depreciation on a used unit over there. 15000 to 18000 euros will buy a decent older rig at a dealership in Holland that caters to this kind of thing. Too early to tell.

By the way, we are looking to try and form a little group to travel with as it can be a lot of fun with the right group. I speak, read and write French, Spanish and German and hope to have a handle on Italien by the time we arrive. 🙂 Wouldn't mind picking up Arabic for Morocco but French is the other official language there. We found Spanish was just as common in the North of Morocco as French. Hows your Arabic. 🙂 🙂 🙂

[garyhaupt]

John & Angela wrote:

garyhaupt wrote:
Okay..no fair....what is the Schengen Zone? I mean...commmooonnnnnnn.....geeez

I should not be having to do this, eh...broken leg and all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area


Gary Haupt

heh heh. Good morning Gary. The schengen zone is a HUGE PAIN THE ASSETS for those of us who want to schlepp around europe for a year or so. But, with a little creative planning you can work around it. For us it means arriving in Holland in march, but the RV hit the road straight for southern Italy. Then slowly work our way back to France so on day 85 or so (fudge factor) we can take the chunnel crossing to Jolly old england for 3 months or so. Then back to europe for another 90 days, and then down to Morocco for 90 days. Morocco is very cool and can't wait to get back there. We will have radar (our chihuahua) with us and things get tricky with rabies certificates when leaving and returning to the Schengen from North Africa, so yet another challenge. Meh, its all fun. 🙂

You are buying an RV over there? There has to be a reason for not shipping yours...inquiring minds NEED to know this. I have looked at it..I think it was about 5 grand, each way and I sorta thought, that was better than renting and all. I was thinking of a year..but perhaps doing it in segments.


Gary Haupt

[John___Angela]

garyhaupt wrote:
Okay..no fair....what is the Schengen Zone? I mean...commmooonnnnnnn.....geeez

I should not be having to do this, eh...broken leg and all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area


Gary Haupt

heh heh. Good morning Gary. The schengen zone is a HUGE PAIN THE ASSETS for those of us who want to schlepp around europe for a year or so. But, with a little creative planning you can work around it. For us it means arriving in Holland in march, but the RV hit the road straight for southern Italy. Then slowly work our way back to France so on day 85 or so (fudge factor) we can take the chunnel crossing to Jolly old england for 3 months or so. Then back to europe for another 90 days, and then down to Morocco for 90 days. Morocco is very cool and can't wait to get back there. We will have radar (our chihuahua) with us and things get tricky with rabies certificates when leaving and returning to the Schengen from North Africa, so yet another challenge. Meh, its all fun. 🙂

[garyhaupt]

Okay..no fair....what is the Schengen Zone? I mean...commmooonnnnnnn.....geeez

I should not be having to do this, eh...broken leg and all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area


Gary Haupt

[John___Angela]

sue.t wrote:
According to a 2014 article from Business News Network being in the U.S. or out of Canada too long can result in the following:

1. Banned from travel to U.S. if unlawfully present. Canadians who remain in the U.S. for more than 183 days in a rolling 12-month period risk being deemed unlawfully present, the consequences of which are: a) a 3-year travel ban if unlawfully present for between 183 and 365 days; and b) a 10-year travel ban if unlawfully present for more than 365 days.

2. Liability for U.S. income tax on worldwide income. The U.S. taxes American citizens and U.S. residents on their worldwide income. If the snowbird is present in the U.S. for too many days he risks becoming deemed a U.S. resident and therefore subject to tax on his worldwide income.

3. Liability for U.S. estate tax on fair market value of worldwide assets. The U.S. also taxes U.S. citizens and U.S. residents on the fair market value of their worldwide assets at death. Unfortunately the definition of U.S. resident for estate tax is fundamentally different than the definition for U.S. income tax purposes. The result is that the heirs of the uninformed snowbird can find their inheritance subject to the U.S. estate tax.

4. Liability for Canadian departure tax. Canada taxes its residents on their worldwide income. Once a Canadian resident is no longer a resident he is deemed to have disposed all of his assets (subject to exceptions), recognize the gain on those assets, and pay tax on that gain. Whether an individual is no longer a resident is a facts and circumstances test; however, a big factor in that analysis is day count. Therefore, the snowbird who spends too much time in the U.S. risks a nasty Canadian tax surprise.

5. Loss of provincial health care. Canadian residents are entitled to participate in provincial health services. Once an individual is no longer a resident of the particular province, he loses this entitlement. Of course, the rules for "residency" in the health care context are different than those discussed above.

Good post and covers things in point form. However, this is all aimed at the Canadians travelling in the US. Canada doesn't care or have any rules on how long you can leave the country. You may have some benefits suspended (not cancelled) but nothing that would hold you back from travelling around the world for a couple years. Health care in Canada is cheap so if you should need medical attention while waiting for the three months for the reinstatement of your benefits its probably not going to be a life changing bill. Heck, a doctors visit is 29 dollars in BC, Ultrasounds, 300 to 500 dollars, hospital 150 to 200 a day etc etc. Nothing that will break the bank. Better yet, let your provincial healthcare provider know you will be out of the province for a year or two or whatever. Most have provision for extended absence without losing your benefits. They will only let you do so often (think Alberta is once every 5 years for up to two years or something like that, its on their site).

Bottom line, stay informed, and watch the overstays in any country. It gets even trickier in Europe in the Schengen zone. 90 days in and 90 days out to a non schengen country. We will have to do this in a couple years when we go over to travel around europe in an RV for a year or so. Watch that calendar. Its called the schengen shuffle. 🙂 Way fun.

Cheers.

[sue_t]

According to a 2014 article from Business News Network being in the U.S. or out of Canada too long can result in the following:

1. Banned from travel to U.S. if unlawfully present. Canadians who remain in the U.S. for more than 183 days in a rolling 12-month period risk being deemed unlawfully present, the consequences of which are: a) a 3-year travel ban if unlawfully present for between 183 and 365 days; and b) a 10-year travel ban if unlawfully present for more than 365 days.

2. Liability for U.S. income tax on worldwide income. The U.S. taxes American citizens and U.S. residents on their worldwide income. If the snowbird is present in the U.S. for too many days he risks becoming deemed a U.S. resident and therefore subject to tax on his worldwide income.

3. Liability for U.S. estate tax on fair market value of worldwide assets. The U.S. also taxes U.S. citizens and U.S. residents on the fair market value of their worldwide assets at death. Unfortunately the definition of U.S. resident for estate tax is fundamentally different than the definition for U.S. income tax purposes. The result is that the heirs of the uninformed snowbird can find their inheritance subject to the U.S. estate tax.

4. Liability for Canadian departure tax. Canada taxes its residents on their worldwide income. Once a Canadian resident is no longer a resident he is deemed to have disposed all of his assets (subject to exceptions), recognize the gain on those assets, and pay tax on that gain. Whether an individual is no longer a resident is a facts and circumstances test; however, a big factor in that analysis is day count. Therefore, the snowbird who spends too much time in the U.S. risks a nasty Canadian tax surprise.

5. Loss of provincial health care. Canadian residents are entitled to participate in provincial health services. Once an individual is no longer a resident of the particular province, he loses this entitlement. Of course, the rules for "residency" in the health care context are different than those discussed above.

[RoamingRV]

Hi Gruffy,

Actually the article is not out of date but that's okay. The laws are in effect and it's important for snowbird RVers to be aware of them - to protect themselves. Its important to be aware of them prior to going south and not be caught unaware of what they need to do. It doesn't have to be difficult. As to the laws regarding truckers that is way out of my league - I wouldn't even attempt to respond to their requirements.

[pianotuna]

Hi Gruffy,

Work in a mine do you? I do not appreciate you implying I am a troll (or any other person on this thread).

Perhaps you need to review the rules that are now going to be enforced. It is quite possible that IF a Canadian can not prove closer ties to Canada than USA (which may well happen to a full time RV'er such as myself) that revenue Canada can deem that all Canadian assets have been sold. If that happens I'm on the hook for Capital Gains.

Paying US income tax is the least of my problems. The way for me to avoid this scenario is to stay less than 120 days per calendar year.

Gruffy wrote:
No.... If you are crossing the border you should be aware of the rules and not depend on the Trolls to scare you off.

It's not magic ... Snowbirds does not write the laws. Just be aware. There are folks out there who would just love to fill out forms for a fee.

[Gruffy]

RoamingRV wrote:
Here is an excellent article in RVWest's January newsletter - it describes it quite well. My recommendation is to make sure you have the form and document when you enter and leave the US - each time. What is important that you can prove your ties are to Canada.

RVWest-changes to crossing the US Border

Well, this is big time wrong. Way out of date. Any "trucker" who crosses the border and has his passport scanned has just "lost a day".

There is no grace for people on business. This is why I say READ THE TAX TREATY.

gOOD LUCK IF YOU ARE DEPENDING ON rv nET TO KEEP YOU OUT OF GRIEF.

[Gruffy]

garyhaupt wrote:
Gruffy.."There is a USA/Canada tax treaty .... perhaps you should read it."
Maybe you meant it to be helpful, but it comes across as pretty 'gruff'. No need for that, right?

Everyone is just trying to be helpful.


Gary Haupt

No.... If you are crossing the border you should be aware of the rules and not depend on the Trolls to scare you off.

It's not magic ... Snowbirds does not write the laws. Just be aware. There are folks out there who would just love to fill out forms for a fee.

[moisheh]

There has been Canadian full timers refused entry into the USA. If asked where you live answer honestly. Do not offer any information other than what was asked. One person replied: WE sold our home and travel all over Canada. They were refused entry. Remember no matter what the rules if the US border person thinks you may plan on overstaying in the USA he can send you home and you have no recourse.

Moisheh