What's the penalty for an expired 6 month tow-car permit?

[Lou_Morris]

I may have to cross the border back to the US with an expired tow car permit (like, 30-60 days late). What should I expect? Normally I'd cross at Nogales. Would there be any advantage in crossing at Lukeville or elsewhere in this case?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Mexican cars with FRONT
FRONTERA license plates have to undergo precisely the same set of hurdles as do extraneous cars. The only difference is if they default on a really expensive high demand motor vehicle, Mexico can rave on their Mexican bank issue credit card. Aduana can not do that with an extraneous bank card.

This is why I caution folks who are clearly in default, to NOT stop at the Aduana/ Benjercito station on their way home and try to argue about the default. Once Aduana/Sat gets their mitts on you and the car then they can assess on-the-spot fines and penalties. Because of bulls-butt-in-a-fly-hatch tightness about car permits, mordida is out of the question with delinquent permits. There is nothing the border officials can do -- think of it this way...

Farmacias Similares...

25% Off Monday. If the computer link to Mexico City fails there is no discount. All the work and the receipt is handled by Mexico City tied into the computer of the sucursal (chain store).

Once the deliquincy happens, the response in the computer system is AUTOMATIC. No one can stop it. No one can alter it. Only the elaborate check-out system given vehicles on the way out can alter the deliquincy. It's all about avoiding fraud and corruption. The INSTANT the alarm is given there is no way to reverse it. Like a hand grenade with the pin pulled, and the handle dropping into a well.

Like the roadside SSP checks, where TIP information is submitted. If a query is made and triggers the alarms. the personnel at that reten had damned well better be sending that vehicle to the Corralon Federal. If it does not show up things get ugly for the cops. And it's all instigated and controlled by that computer in Mexico City. Bribes are as useless as a kiss on the cheek.

Aduaneros can be sympathetic and very helpful as long as the deliquincy seems to be other than don't give **** or arrogance. When permanent residency extraneous were told to get their USA plated cars out of Mexico, there were hundreds of defaults. So the process of the temporary exit permit is not unplowed ground.

[navegator]

One has to interpret what they mean in the document that specifies the Importation Permits from SAT.
Roughly translated it states that you can only get one Temporary Import Permit in one year, that you can take the vehicle out of Mexico and back in as many times as you want within those 180 days and until the 180 days have been used up, this is written in the SAT document from SAT on importing foreign vehicles in to Mexico.
As you know Mexican law makers and lawyers love to use a lot of convoluted words to say something very simple so that they only can interpret the law and charge lots of pesos for a simple answer, too many lawyers steering the pot.

moisheh, I hope you read and understand Spanish, this is taken from SAT document on the internet.

www.sat,gob.mx/aduanas/vehiculos/importacion_temporal/Paginas/default.aspx
Go to Aduanas and scroll down to vehiculos

The law for the Mexicans importing vehicles applies the same for foreigners that have a TIP of 180 days

navegator

[Talleyho69]

One of us is bound to find the appropriate website.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Advice perilous because if it goes public the government will find a way to enhance the banishment to the point of making a ban a lifetime issue regardless of circumstances. Knowing Mexico the following will come into play...

"Your passport was issued 2 years after your delinquency. Your name is the same. Other data like license plate, VIN or driver license have tripped warning signals in our system PROVE YOU ARE NOT THAT PERSON!"

Be careful and not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[Talleyho69]

A few years ago, we got caught in a situation where we sold an RV that we didn't expect to, and didn't turn in the TIP.

We did everything we could do to get the permit cancelled, and it did not work in the end. Everything.

Fortunately, someone, navagator maybe? posted a website that showed what vehicles were attached to your passport number. I'm not finding it in my bookmarks, but could if really necessary.

It showed the old RV on my passport number. When I got a new US passport, I got a new number and was able to get a new TIP with no problem because it was a new number.

We are not encouraging anyone to get a new passport in order to erase old TIP's, but it can be done.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

• The temporary 15-day permit is "one time only"
• It allows the person on the permit to take the vehicle out of Mexico
• The TIP went delinquent
• There IS NO MECHANISM to rectify the delinquency. The car can re-enter Mexico
• The bonded permit holder CAN NOT OBTAIN a new permit for this or any other motor vehicle
• The permit is tied into the bondholder's PASSPORT NUMBER
• Save your time, your money and your sanity
• Don't expect to get another permit
• To verify this, try getting a permit for any motor vehicle online. It'll save a wasted trip to the border
• I base the above comments on fact, not hyperbole, gossip, conjecture or overinterpretation of Mexican law
• The banishment is 100% effective
• I went the long-route finding this out, including visiting Hacienda (Aduana) in Mexico City::There is no magic attorney or plea bargaining with aduana - the ban is absolute regarding the affected Passport ID number

[Talleyho69]

Good homework.

So the end result is that IF their TIP expires, they can get a permit that will allow them to legally drive to the border.

So it sounds like they have options. Stay, and when heading to the border, getting an extension that will allow them to get to the border legally. Or, driving to the border, turning the TIP in and returning (time frames and location up to them) with a new TIP and visa. Options.

[moisheh]

To the best of my knowledge neither can be legally extended. Do you have a link? Or remember where you saw that info? Would sure help a lot of people.

UPDATE: I did a Google on this subject. You have to read the results carefully. The info that popped up referred to people with RT or RP that were renewing the visa and needed to renew the TIP. NOT for those with an FMM. The articles I found on renewing an FMM was for those with a 30,60 or 90 day permit. These can be extended to the 180 Max. The article stated that no FMM can be extended beyond 180 days without leaving the country. BTW If your TIP has expired you can get a permit that allows you to legally drive to the border. Years ago you could get an FMT extended with some Mordida. Things have changed.

Moisheh

[Talleyho69]

Again, they can be extended legally. Do the homework, it didn't sound at all difficult when I read about it a few months ago. Don't remember the details, but they were workable.

[moisheh]

There is no reason to play musical chairs with your permits. You an turn in the permit before the 180 days, cross the border, have a nice meal and return for another permit in the same name. Have never heard of any problems. I would like to see the "LEY" that says you can only get one permit every 12 months. ( I like my crow smoked) Ever since the permits began people have had this discussion.

Moisheh

[navegator]

The way we have done it is:
1 both vehicles are registered in both my wifes name and mine
2 rhe RV has a 10 year permit and that is no problem
3 I import the toad for 180 days
4 we turn the permit at or fefore it expires 180 days not 6 months, count the days
5 we spend a week or more in Texas, brother lives in San Antonio
6 wife now imports the toad for the next 180 days
7 then I import the toad for the next 180 days
8 then she does it again

So far we have had no problems, same vehicle enters 180 days on one name then 180 days on a diferent name and different passports, that is the key.

navegator

[Talleyho69]

Technically, you can't get more than one visa's or TIP every 12 months. In real life, I have never heard of anyone having an issue. We have done it.

There are ways of getting a legal extension on both your TIP and your visa. Do an online search, and depending upon where you are, there may be an Aduana nearby that can help you. Google is your friend!

Lukeville/Sonoyta is, in our opinion, the only place to come and go. We'd suggest going out at Lukeville and reentering at Nogales. Why? Sonoyta can be snotty about pets and things in your fridge and freezer coming in. At Nogales, they don't care. And, it's all the same computer system. You can always change names on the TIP too.

[Lou_Morris]

Thanks for the various advice. Don't think I want to chance having the car seized. Might try to find a way to get an extension in Vallarta

But another question. If we drove the car across the border with the aim of renewing the permit for another 6 months (and renewing my visa as well), then re crossed back into Mexico in another 2-3 days, is there any regulation against crossing and re-crossing in a short period like that? Perhaps if we crossed north at Nogales, then came back in via Lukeville?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

If it was me, I would follow in other people's footsteps that have been in the same spot and get out of Mexico with a piece of paper that would allow existing Mexico minus the danger of getting the auto confiscated at a roadside SSP Reten.

It means going to a larger town or city or the best is a port that has an office of ADUANA. Explain the problem. They understand and won't play dumb.

The will issue you a get-out-of-jail-almost-free card. Almost free because I believe the work costs 750 or a thousand pesos payable at a bank. I do not believe the paperwork needs to be turned in at the border (what would be the point?)

Since the infraccion is computerized it will stay in the memory bank forever with your passport number being the flag against getting another TIP. Change cars or getting another driver license does not help.

I do not know what the current status of Retenes is on Mex 15 or 57, but if you get processed, the minute they check the registry in Mexico City on a laptop, the data is red flagged. The cops had better come up with your vehicle. So attempting a bribe is futile.