2010 Montana 5th wheel frame problems

[truckerpops]

I purchased a 2010 Montana 3400RL new. I have towed it less than 3000 miles. I have experianced many major problems with it since I purchased it. Now I found that the frame has a major problem. The wall on the side of the front closet has been broken by the movement of the frame. I would like to know how many others have had this problem.

[travelnutz]

Never said it proves or disproves any theory as to Mobile Suites Lippert frame as I'd only posted the facts that actually exist. As for the RV owner, he's beyond pi-ss-ed seeing how thin the frame walls are and the 9 cracks/breaks that exist. Lippert doesn't have a very good history with it's frames to say the least and it's so well known. I now know it includes the Mobile Suites line frames too as I've actually seen it personally and touched it and also measured the wall thicknesses with my digital verniers calipers.

If the owner wants to post any more info, it will be up to him, not me, and I sure won't post his name as I have no right to. He's not an rv.net member as of yet anyway. Being on disability, he cannot afford to have a repair facility fix it so he's doing it himself. I'm very confident he'll do a much better repair and reinforcement than a repair place as the time to do it right will cost him nothing for labor and the metal is not expensive and being that it's a big labor intensive job and time is something he has lots of. Enough said!

[FlatBroke]

Water-Bug wrote:

The Mad Norsky wrote:
Travelnutz: good info to hear about. It's the very first Mobile Suites frame problem I have ever heard about.


Guess that really disproves the Mobile Suites/Lippert theory.

One incident doesn't prove or disprove any theory. It is an insignificant sample size, unless only three were built.

Beat me to it. How could even a theory about MS frames be made at all with one instance.

[Water-Bug]

The Mad Norsky wrote:
Travelnutz: good info to hear about. It's the very first Mobile Suites frame problem I have ever heard about.


Guess that really disproves the Mobile Suites/Lippert theory.

One incident doesn't prove or disprove any theory. It is an insignificant sample size, unless only three were built.

[TXiceman]

Our previous trailer was a 2012 Carriage Cameo and it experienced some flex in the front frame at the side wall just forward of the bedroom slide out. We took the trailer to Kansas RV Center (formerly the NuWa HitchHiker production plant) in Chanute, KS. The skin was removed on the left front corner and plates were sistered onto the frame and side wall. Theis was farther strengthened with 3/4" plywood. The area was reinsulated and the skin reapplied and the seams caulked.

There was not much movement, but just enough to open up the caulked seams and let water enter.

It appeared that Cameo did not consider the frame area with the large slide cut out.

Every time I hitched and unhitched, you could hear the creaking in the side wall.

It is a real shame that a quality builder would have let this happen to a quality trailer.

So the problem is not JUST Lippert. But I have seen some of the really poor welding on the Lippert frames and it is really wide spread.


ken

[The_Mad_Norsky]

Travelnutz: good info to hear about. It's the very first Mobile Suites frame problem I have ever heard about.

Guess that really disproves the Mobile Suites/Lippert theory.

[travelnutz]

Welcome to the world of very thin flexing Lippert RV Frames. Flexing fatigues metal and the thinner the faster it will crack or break free! Engineering and physics 101! I'm a retired mechanical engineer and many decade automotive engineering business owner and it's so blatantly obvious to me why they crack and break. Thousands upon thousands of Lippert frame RV's have your same cracking/fatigue type issues or total frame structure failure and those that haven't, it's only a question of when!

Notice nearly all the cracking propagates from where the weld bead ends along it's sides or ends. The welding high heat process stresses and weakens the metal right next to a weld and you see the results of having such thin metal used in and for RV frames which are constantly flexing when driven on normal roads. Bumpy type roads etc will fatigue such thin metal very quickly. In general, Lippert frames hold up well if the RV is only kept in a CG and supported reasonably well by the spring suspension and 4 corner jacks.

Yes, even Mobile Suites Lippert frames crack and break as there's a 2009 36' RL 3 slides purchased new not more than a quarter mile from our home that is torn apart and being fixed presently by adding a lot of 3/16" plates and 2 X 3 X 3/16" angle. The bottom skin will be 3/16' lower but that's no problem.

The reason I know the facts as we know the owners personally and he asked me how to fix it properly as he needed help with acheiving structural integrity. He had to basically strip the interior in the bedroom area and remove all the floor screws he could get to (many were snapped off) and use some rented big draw clamps and a sledge on a 4 X 4 to close the frame break gaps. Will need new floor attachment screw holes anyway. What a junky weak frame for such a heavy RV! The RV is long out of warranty so I helped him with how to reinforce it properly by welding the cracks and then layering a type of eal frame over the existing thin junk. Fortunately, he has a Hobart 210MVP 220V flux core wire feed welder in his garage and knows how to weld as he was a machine repairman before his 2010 car accident which put him on disability with a screwed up back with a rod down it. He has the Mobile Suites parked in his driveway about 15'-18' from the door, front first. Made a 6 ga 220V extension cord 35' long so he can plug in to his 50 amp garage outlet and reach the RV with the welder. Most RV owners don't have this/these options or ability to fix theirs.

haha, Even Ray Charles could weld better than some of the Lippert bird droppings welds I've seen! Don't even need any eyesight to realize missing welds as Ray Charles could still feel their absence.

Until Lippert builds a truely capable RV frame, we'll never buy an RV with one of their frames under it!

[TxTiger]

laknox wrote:

FastEagle wrote:
Have you had the trailer weighed? Sure looks like an overloading problem to me.

FastEagle

p.s. Not a hip shot comment. My military specialty was Aviation Structural Mechanic (30+ years). Stress fractures (cracking) are almost always caused by loads beyond the capability of the design.

Of course, being built by the lowest bidder had =nothing= to do with it... :B

Lyle

I'm not sure what type of competition there is in the RV frame building business. I know Lipppert recently purchased another manufacturer that had a good reputation, so they may be one of the very few making RV frames. But I agree with the manufacturer's specs playing a big role in the strength of the frame. Quality of workmanship is another issue, however. I've seen some Lippert frames with good solid welds (like mine), and then some that looks like Ray Charles did the welding.

[FastEagle]

laknox wrote:

FastEagle wrote:
Have you had the trailer weighed? Sure looks like an overloading problem to me.

FastEagle

p.s. Not a hip shot comment. My military specialty was Aviation Structural Mechanic (30+ years). Stress fractures (cracking) are almost always caused by loads beyond the capability of the design.

Of course, being built by the lowest bidder had =nothing= to do with it... :B

Lyle

Once upon a time Alan B. Shepard mused - while setting atop a rocket getting ready to be fired into space - that the whole thing under him might have been built by the lowest bidder.

FE

[laknox]

FastEagle wrote:
Have you had the trailer weighed? Sure looks like an overloading problem to me.

FastEagle

p.s. Not a hip shot comment. My military specialty was Aviation Structural Mechanic (30+ years). Stress fractures (cracking) are almost always caused by loads beyond the capability of the design.

Of course, being built by the lowest bidder had =nothing= to do with it... :B

Lyle

[NC_Hauler]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Mile High wrote:
Don't put all the blame on Keystone - Lippert is hiding under the table......

I still throw it back to the RV MFG. They want light and big, not a good combo. Look in the pics above the metal has broken and it looks like it's very thin.

Mobile Suites uses Lippert also but they spec their frames to be very strong.

That was a very thin looking frame...at what point does the stinking manufacturer stop cutting corners, (ie, frames, tires, audio equip, etc)), keep charging outragious prices for their product and start putting together a quality product? I know there are some out there who make a quality produc, but it's a minority f manufacturers....It should make one wonder if the tires are going to "blow" first or if the frame is going to crack.

someone asked what hitch OP was using...I'm curious to hear what type hitch also...GN or traditional 5th wheel hitch....or was the frame assembly just that terrible...

[Cummins12V98]

Mile High wrote:
Don't put all the blame on Keystone - Lippert is hiding under the table......

I still throw it back to the RV MFG. They want light and big, not a good combo. Look in the pics above the metal has broken and it looks like it's very thin.

Mobile Suites uses Lippert also but they spec their frames to be very strong.

[FlatBroke]

NC Hauler wrote:

Mile High wrote:
Don't put all the blame on Keystone - Lippert is hiding under the table......

Agree, Lippert manufactured the frame that Keystone manufactured the 5er onto.

And Keystone keeps buying them by the thousands and apparently ignores the problem. Thousand of Lippert frames, more than than other company's combined, that don't fail. Lippert is just like MTD, they will build you cheap krap or good stuff. Just bring your specs.

[FastEagle]

Have you had the trailer weighed? Sure looks like an overloading problem to me.

FastEagle

p.s. Not a hip shot comment. My military specialty was Aviation Structural Mechanic (30+ years). Stress fractures (cracking) are almost always caused by loads beyond the capability of the design.

[The_Mad_Norsky]

Mile High wrote:
Don't put all the blame on Keystone - Lippert is hiding under the table......

Possibly. Do remember that Lippert makes the frames for the DRV Mobile Suites and the Jayco Pinnacle fifth wheels. Not many problems with those units as far as frame issues.

:E hate to ask, but what kind of hitch was being used on this fifth wheel???????

[NC_Hauler]

Mile High wrote:
Don't put all the blame on Keystone - Lippert is hiding under the table......

Agree, Lippert manufactured the frame that Keystone manufactured the 5er onto.