PA non-commercial Class A license?

[ToddD]

Lost in the bureaucratic maze of the Pennsylvania DMV. No one I speak to there seems to know how to obtain a NON-commercial Class A. All they know is CDL.

This is all I can find on their website:

http://www.dmv.pa.gov/Driver-Services/Driver-Information/License-Types/Pages/default.aspx

Anyone here know the steps I need to take to get this license?

[Gary_O]

Wow Thanks Todd,from what I read from your link I should be able lower my truck class from a class 10 to a class 5,License will go from $782.00 to $335.00.5th wheel license from $36.00 to $90.00.I'll be making a trip to DMV in next couple months.Thanks again!

[librty02]

ToddD wrote:
Well, regardless of what combined weight registration regs were for non-commercial vehicles, it seems that as of last year, recreational trailers are officially exempt.

I was discussing the licensing topic on another forum and someone pointed this out.

https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/DVSPubsForms/BMV/BMV%20Driver%20and%20Vehicle%20Bulletins/Bulletin%2019-08%20Special%20Edition%20-Senate%20Bill%20796%20-%20Act%20138.pdf

Re-title your trailer from TRL class to RECT class and your tow vehicle is exempt from combined weight classification.

Thanks Todd this honestly makes more sense in the recreational world...I could understand it in the commercial world but not for rec use. That combo registration seemed more like a $ making scheme than anything, just like our Pa turnpike tolls ha!...
I appreciate you getting back to me on this as I am looking to upgrade in the next year or two and want to get this all straight before I do. Now to stay under that 26,001 lb threshold so I won't need a Class A non-commercial or not. It wouldn't bother me to get it but I'm not so sure the wife would want to go through with all of that also.

[ToddD]

Well, regardless of what combined weight registration regs were for non-commercial vehicles, it seems that as of last year, recreational trailers are officially exempt.

I was discussing the licensing topic on another forum and someone pointed this out.

https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/DVSPubsForms/BMV/BMV%20Driver%20and%20Vehicle%20Bulletins/Bulletin%2019-08%20Special%20Edition%20-Senate%20Bill%20796%20-%20Act%20138.pdf

Re-title your trailer from TRL class to RECT class and your tow vehicle is exempt from combined weight classification.

[librty02]

Gary O wrote:
Yes they checked mine.I went from a class 5 weight to a class 10.My truck had a GVWR of 14000 but to tow my 5th wheel and be legal, over 26001, I had to get a GCWR of 33000 lbs.I had to go to Ford dealer and have a licensed inspection tech fill out a form that my truck could legally tow that weight.I had to get a new title for my truck, titled for a GCWR of 40000 lbs but I only license it for 33000 lbs.It was a big pain in a$$,but I'm legal anywhere I tow. I'll try to find out what form I needed and will let you know.

This makes absolutely no sense to me to be honest. GVWR and GCWR are two totally different things. Pa classes are registered gross weight (GVWR) not registered combined weight (GCWR). I have a half ton truck with a GVWR of 7050 and a trailer with a GVWR of 7200 that's 14250 combined. I pay for 2 stickers one for the truck and one for the trailer for the correct GVWR of each. Nowhere does it state that you must register your vehicle as the combined weight of your sole vehicle registration. If so you would have SUV's out there towing 6k travel trailers needing a class 5 sticker on the vehicle. The GVWR of the vehicle is the max that vehicle can weigh and that is what you register it for.

Can you please show me a link where it states you must register your vehicle for the GCWR and not its GVWR.

In here it states about GCWR when trucks towing trailers over 10k must be registered as a combined weight...but this is for commercial registration...where does it state this for non-commercial??

https://www.dot.state.pa.us/public/PubsForms/Publications/PUB%20194.pdf

[ToddD]

Yeah, I think the new Real ID requirement is what triggered the need for the extra documentation. I think anyone renewing their driver licenses these days needs to upgrade to Real ID.

[Gary_O]

When I took my test the young lady testing entered it on the computer that I passed and now was a non cdl class a then I went to next dept and had picture taken and they handed me my new drivers license. My license was due for renew at that time.Test and new license little over a hour,did not need passport or birth certificate just license renewal . There needs to be better communication between the DMV and there testing points.

[ToddD]

Thanks for all the advice, Gary, I book marked this thread for reference as I went through the process.

The truck class change was definitely more challenging than I thought it would be.

Did you have to present passport or birth certificate to get your new license?

Wondering what further surprises I have waiting for me when I go back there.

[Gary_O]

I was wondering how you ever made out getting your class a,glad you got it.The main problem I had was the people at the DMV in Harrisburg had no idea what a class a non cdl was.

[ToddD]

So, it’s been 2 years since I started this quest.

It took multiple trips to the DMV to clear up a speeding ticket from NJ in the 80s that popped when they ran my license on the National Drivers Register (forgot about that one).

Then I finally got my permit in November, 2019.

Then I spent hours and hours getting my truck reclassified from 5 to 10 due to multiple rejections from PenDOT without explanation.

Then I spent more time and money requesting a duplicate registration and class sticker when it got lost in the mail.

And then, today, I finally took my driver test in Norristown.

I passed, but I still don’t have my license.

Sometime along the way, the ID requirements were updated, now requiring you to present birth certificate or passport to process the license reissue.

So now I need to go back to the DMV.... again!

At least I’m now technically legal.

FYI to those with a drivers test scheduled.

[Gary_O]

Yes they checked mine.I went from a class 5 weight to a class 10.My truck had a GVWR of 14000 but to tow my 5th wheel and be legal, over 26001, I had to get a GCWR of 33000 lbs.I had to go to Ford dealer and have a licensed inspection tech fill out a form that my truck could legally tow that weight.I had to get a new title for my truck, titled for a GCWR of 40000 lbs but I only license it for 33000 lbs.It was a big pain in a$$,but I'm legal anywhere I tow. I'll try to find out what form I needed and will let you know.

[sayoung]

ToddD wrote:

Gary O wrote:
No,you have to have a class a licensed driver with you when towing. While waiting to take test,the tester told me to move truck and trailer to a different spot because I was blocking area for auto testing,I moved rig and backed in the spot where she told me to, while she watched,she said if I would have moved rig without a licensed class a in with me I would have failed!She also told me the state police are starting to check rver's for proper license and weight class. Just study the manual and you won't have any problems.I was getting ready to take a 4 week trip out west and glad I took care of this before we left.

Another question for you, Gary. You happen to know if they checked your GCWR?

I assume you have to take the test with a truck and trailer combo that would exceed 26,001lbs when added up together, as per the stickers on the vehicles.

My truck plus my 5er would equal 30,850lbs adding them together (14k GVWR for truck plus 16.8k GVWR for 5er).

But, if they check the manual for my truck, I'd technically be exceeding the GCWR of 23,500lbs.

Actual combined GVW would be south of that, but GCWR would exceed it.

Planning on buying a new truck this summer, but wanting to take the test before then.

Maybe a moot question since having a license would be irrelevant should I have an incident and be exceeding published GCWR...

When I did my Texas A the tester did look at my wieght rating stickers to make sure combo GVWR was over 26000.
OP said hard to find Tx test site, just go to TxDPS website & all the sites listed. When. I did mine all test sites did the class A non-commercial.
Probably only 20 % of RVers have the correct license ,just a wag. IMHO dealers won't tell a prospect that an upgrade to DL needed cause they wouldn't buy.

[ToddD]

Gary O wrote:
No,you have to have a class a licensed driver with you when towing. While waiting to take test,the tester told me to move truck and trailer to a different spot because I was blocking area for auto testing,I moved rig and backed in the spot where she told me to, while she watched,she said if I would have moved rig without a licensed class a in with me I would have failed!She also told me the state police are starting to check rver's for proper license and weight class. Just study the manual and you won't have any problems.I was getting ready to take a 4 week trip out west and glad I took care of this before we left.

Another question for you, Gary. You happen to know if they checked your GCWR?

I assume you have to take the test with a truck and trailer combo that would exceed 26,001lbs when added up together, as per the stickers on the vehicles.

My truck plus my 5er would equal 30,850lbs adding them together (14k GVWR for truck plus 16.8k GVWR for 5er).

But, if they check the manual for my truck, I'd technically be exceeding the GCWR of 23,500lbs.

Actual combined GVW would be south of that, but GCWR would exceed it.

Planning on buying a new truck this summer, but wanting to take the test before then.

Maybe a moot question since having a license would be irrelevant should I have an incident and be exceeding published GCWR...

[Rich1961]

Whiskey River wrote:
Well here's what I think I think... There is maybe a dozen of these license's scattered across the US of A. It appears the DOT's of California, Pennsylvania, Texas & North Carolina are clueless as to where to take the test, who needs to take the test, what test to take, and what you end up with. With all the RV's out there, I don't think there are a lot of these licenses to go along. Even this post only has 3 or 4 members answering various questions. If most folks have this license, I would think there would be more answers like, "yea I have that"... Not saying you don't need it, only that I don't think many folk have it....

I have the Non Commercial A license in California. I agree, most that have the larger/heavier trailers/5th wheels don't know about it, and most of the DMV workers are unaware of it also. In California what triggers the license requirement is the 5th wheels GVWR (over 15k) for the Non Commercial A. Travel trailers over 10k GVWR also require the Non Commercial A. 5th wheels between 10k and 15k also require an endorsement to your regular Class C license. It is becoming more widely known about the license requirements but still has a long ways to go. Since getting my license I've ridden with 3 other friends so that they could go to the Commercial test facility in Sacramento for their driving test. That is one of the things that makes it hard for someone who wants to get the license, but doesn't know someone to ride with them to drive to the test facility. And they will check to see if you have a driver that rode with you, to see if they have an "A" license or not when you check in for the test.

[ToddD]

Whiskey River wrote:
Well here's what I think I think... There is maybe a dozen of these license's scattered across the US of A. It appears the DOT's of California, Pennsylvania, Texas & North Carolina are clueless as to where to take the test, who needs to take the test, what test to take, and what you end up with. With all the RV's out there, I don't think there are a lot of these licenses to go along. Even this post only has 3 or 4 members answering various questions. If most folks have this license, I would think there would be more answers like, "yea I have that"... Not saying you don't need it, only that I don't think many folk have it....

No doubt. But that doesn't make it any less illegal. As long as these unlicensed RVers don't get pulled over for a traffic infraction or don't get into an accident, then ignorance is bliss.

Watch out if they do. State has no mercy.