Real towing experiencing with SRW

[norm]

Okay "Fivers", I've been around this forum a few years now and have on occasion shared my opinion based on my experiences. Hopefully someone has found at least one of my experienced based opinions to be helpful. Over the years I have owned a number of TT's, motorhome, and cab overs. Basically, I apparently have adult ADD so my mode of RV'ing interest changes with the wind . I have full timed for a year (2002), traveling the US, pulling a 30' TT with a half ton SRW. Many "experts" on this forum said it couldn't be done safely and would destroy the truck. Yeah, sure pal! Well, it must have been dumb luck. Because not only did I put 20,000 incident free miles on that rig, in one year (like I said...ADD, gotta keep moving!..LOL)but I sold it for top $. So, my point is....while theory and prognostication can be insightful and entertaining, they don't replace "real world" experience. With that said, I am currently considering selling my cab over and trying out a 5th. My tow vehicle is an 04 Cummins 2500 quad (mildly chipped) SB, SRW, with 19.5 tires/wheels and airbags. I would appreciate hearing from "fivers" towing with a similar rig. Specifically, what "fiver" are you towing and what is/are your opinion/s, good and bad?

[mapguy]

Wow -10 pages of debate. Feeling safe is a subjective thing. Many feel like the Factory Door sticker is a black and white number for safety. Without knowledge of underlying component values, warranty/service life/1st retail sale certification requirements, and your home state regulatory/statutory environment regarding licensing/payload carrying, it would be easy to have a black and white opinion about truck payload/towing capacities.

I tow with a 06 chevy 2500HD SB EC 4wd diesel. Trailer is a 30.5', 14,200 GVWR toyhauler. Pin is 18-20% on a typical trip. Trailer typically weighs 13,700-13,900 fully loaded. Truck is licensed for 10K weight, has heavy autoslide hitch, has air bags to help with sag(not much PSI used), MaxBrake Controller, (prodigy/P2/P3 were all horrible mistakes) and one size bigger LR E tire(1T SRW size. Totally legal, tows like a dream and stops very well. The electric trailer brakes are well sorted out -wiring is proper size for amp/voltage load and regularly adjusted. Typical driving conditions range from major urban area to National Forest/BLM single lane dirt in the Washington, Oregon, Idaho region. Only additional modification I would like on my truck is an Pac Brake exhaust brake for steep descends found off the Interstate highway system. Like White Bird Hill south of Grangeville, Id and the descent from Idaho 20 to the Pine/Featherville area, as examples, just for more braking capacity/margin of safety.

I will also add that "safety" always begins and ends with the "loose nut" behind the wheel..... I travel I-90 for 2x20 miles every day east of Seattle into the foothills---- the amount of vehicles in poor condition and or towing with bad set-up(tail high, tail low, no sway control, excessive speed and tailgating with sudden violent lane changes is amazing.... Many are oblivious to their surroundings, their equipment condition/setup, plus the needed driving skills with a trailer in tow.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

soling2003 wrote:
Tail wagging the dog.....it does help to have four wheels back there not just two. That extra rubber and weight does help.

I have a Grand Junction 35TMS, almost 40ft and 15,500lbs. I was over the 2010 F250 weights all the way around except the FAWR. Course both dealers said no problem. And it did handle it pretty well with the airbags. It was four door and long bed, so was a beast of a truck. But I still was going to add more weight in the truck and front of the trailer, ie Gen. and W/D, and just didn't want to push it too far. So went with a 2011 dually, same set up otherwise. Even my wife could tell the diffence sitting on the other side. Power and fuel economy was a bit better with the new truck, but that was because of the engine, nothing else. Basically it just makes it so that I am under all my ratings instead of over them, and it stops a bit better and can carry the load better.
Now, if the numbers showed a SRW truck would work, I would have done that, but since I Knew my numbers a head of time and understood them better, I knew I needed a dually for both GCVWR and RAWR.
SO yes, the 25O would pull if fine, and hadled pretty good, thought everything was fine till I got it weighed ready to camp. You really cant appreciate the difference till you two with a similar dually, not one 10 years older.
For me, a dually is no big deal, even as a daily driver, since I spent 25 years driving a straight frame ladder truck for the fire dept. Seems like a sports car!
Kind of like using a little hammer to drive a nail. If you are using a finish nail, no problem. And a framing hammer may be a bit overkill. But if you are driving a galvanized 20d nail, the little light hammer will do it but will take forever. RIght tool for the job.

Yep - you needed a dually from day one!..

That would have been "my time" for the singled HDT - if you need a dually, do it *right*!.:W

BTW - The comparison: FD Truck Companies (or Engines) don't exactly see a lot of miles, LOL!

Drat! - Somebody forgot to tell me..:@...when I was behind the wheel - Engine or 85' Snorkel (47' 6" long) - always thought I *was* driving a sports car!!

.

[soling2003]

Tail wagging the dog.....it does help to have four wheels back there not just two. That extra rubber and weight does help.

I have a Grand Junction 35TMS, almost 40ft and 15,500lbs. I was over the 2010 F250 weights all the way around except the FAWR. Course both dealers said no problem. And it did handle it pretty well with the airbags. It was four door and long bed, so was a beast of a truck. But I still was going to add more weight in the truck and front of the trailer, ie Gen. and W/D, and just didn't want to push it too far. So went with a 2011 dually, same set up otherwise. Even my wife could tell the diffence sitting on the other side. Power and fuel economy was a bit better with the new truck, but that was because of the engine, nothing else. Basically it just makes it so that I am under all my ratings instead of over them, and it stops a bit better and can carry the load better.
Now, if the numbers showed a SRW truck would work, I would have done that, but since I Knew my numbers a head of time and understood them better, I knew I needed a dually for both GCVWR and RAWR.
SO yes, the 25O would pull if fine, and hadled pretty good, thought everything was fine till I got it weighed ready to camp. You really cant appreciate the difference till you two with a similar dually, not one 10 years older.
For me, a dually is no big deal, even as a daily driver, since I spent 25 years driving a straight frame ladder truck for the fire dept. Seems like a sports car!
Kind of like using a little hammer to drive a nail. If you are using a finish nail, no problem. And a framing hammer may be a bit overkill. But if you are driving a galvanized 20d nail, the little light hammer will do it but will take forever. RIght tool for the job.

[gpshemi]

Just bought a Town and Country and a Charger. I think I'll wheel this megacab a while longer. LOL.

I never said I was running Rickson wheels either by the way. What I elluded to was you don't know what your talking as much as you'd like to think you do. You know...trying to get someone to see the light and all.

How would the tail wag the dog less with DRWs? The weight ratio is nearly the same. Food for thought though since it's come up...the gross limit actually goes down in my case with a DRW. Go figure.

[Cummins12V98]

gpshemi wrote:
OMG 4x4ord You're certainly going to kill everyone!!

Don't worry his next truck will be a RAM Dually! We are doing a group buy, want in??????

[Cummins12V98]

Javi1 wrote:

gpshemi wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will ask again what is your rear TV axle weight?

I can answer that, but honestly why would I? So you can continue to banter?

You've already decided that I'm overloaded, unsafe, hard headed, an uneducated gun toting redneck terrorist that's a complete danger to society...or something to that degree. I see this setup all the time in Michigan. So just as a forwarning to you, stay in another state or fear for your life I guess.

Additionally, I've already stated your mileage will vary from mine. It is what it is. He asked. I told. So what's the point? I'm not bantering with the weight police. Call me or it what you wish. I hate to break everyones heart, but I just don't really care much What you personally think. It works fine in every case I've used it in.

Do you want me to conceed that a DRW might perform better as a tow rig with additional safety margin? Is that what you're looking for? Done. I totally agree. I'd also add, so would a class 8 with twin rear DRW's over a 3500 DRW. We just draw our lines different is all.

Reading your posts I can see that you love the baiting and fishing... 😄

Yes I can see that! HA

[Cummins12V98]

gpshemi wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I was honestly curious what your rear axle weighs.

Captain Obvious

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I am not going to change what you do for sure.

...and here I thought I was being too subtle for you.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
With the load you are stating at 20% pin weight you have to be over your tires capacity.

If you say so...based on which tire / size / load range btw?
19.5 Rickson wheels & tires run 5k a tire ya know.

...and my pin weight when loaded isn't 20% either.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
But if you want to evade the question it is up to you.

Evading / not bickering with you about loads vs safety isn't the same. I've stated I'm over on certain door specs. I just don't agree that equates to a dangerous menace.
YM(and opinion)MV and you are very welcome to your opinion and your opportunity to voice it.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I am not the weight police.

Ya sure? 😉

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I know the Cummins/Ram can do way more than what the factory says but there is a safe limit and I think you already know that.

Considering I work along side those Chrysler engineers...sure.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will voice my opinion and hopefully help someone see the light.

You opinion is noted, but what your not getting is there is "no light to see". I'm keenly aware I'm over the manufacturers specs. :S

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I have personal experience with being overloaded.

Apparently not as much as I do, as we both seem to agree on...

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

All you had to say a ling time ago is you have 19.5 Rickson's.

Next time you spend the time to quote me please include the whole part of the quote.

I would not be concerned about the weight on your truck with the Rickson's but the tail wagging the dog would apply in your case.

Like always........JMHO!

[gpshemi]

OMG 4x4ord You're certainly going to kill everyone!!

[4x4ord]

I tow about 32000 lbs behind my SRW. I am not sure how much weight goes on the pin. The truck handles it very well, although I don't have long steep grades to pull. My 5ver is about 14,500 and I really don't notice a whole lot of difference between pulling one or the other,

[gpshemi]

Javi1 wrote:
Reading your posts I can see that you love the baiting and fishing... 😄

He's entitled to his opinion, but I don't have to answer to him is all I'm getting at.

[Javi1]

gpshemi wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will ask again what is your rear TV axle weight?

I can answer that, but honestly why would I? So you can continue to banter?

You've already decided that I'm overloaded, unsafe, hard headed, an uneducated gun toting redneck terrorist that's a complete danger to society...or something to that degree. I see this setup all the time in Michigan. So just as a forwarning to you, stay in another state or fear for your life I guess.

Additionally, I've already stated your mileage will vary from mine. It is what it is. He asked. I told. So what's the point? I'm not bantering with the weight police. Call me or it what you wish. I hate to break everyones heart, but I just don't really care much What you personally think. It works fine in every case I've used it in.

Do you want me to conceed that a DRW might perform better as a tow rig with additional safety margin? Is that what you're looking for? Done. I totally agree. I'd also add, so would a class 8 with twin rear DRW's over a 3500 DRW. We just draw our lines different is all.

Reading your posts I can see that you love the baiting and fishing... 😄

[TBarD]

My TV is a 2007 Dodge RAM, Crew Cab SB, SRW with the 5.9L engine. I added a PacBrake and Smarty Jr, ISSPRO gauges, aftermarket covers for the AT and rear diff to enhance cooling. I tow a 33' Excel fifth wheel (15-16K) and also an equipment trailer, which loaded with a tractor and other equipment is usually about 14-15K.

No problems whatsoever towing - very stable, even with cross winds. I tow in the mountains in Colorado and have been on many steep grades. I would not do it without the exhaust brake, which is an enormous help (even when not towing), however the exhaust brake alone is not sufficient on steep mountain grades; it is essential that the trailer brakes be in good shape as well. Given the weight of the fifth wheel I went with disc brakes on the trailer.

I use my truck mostly for other things and only tow heavy occasionally. Set up the way I have it, it is a great all around truck. If I were towing more often I would go with 19.5s on the truck (I have them on the Excel), as I am at the rear axle limit on the truck with my current set up. I have air bags but surprisingly did not need them for the fifth wheel, the truck drops only 1.5" or so in the rear when loaded.

[gpshemi]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I was honestly curious what your rear axle weighs.

Captain Obvious

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I am not going to change what you do for sure.

...and here I thought I was being too subtle for you.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
With the load you are stating at 20% pin weight you have to be over your tires capacity.

If you say so...based on which tire / size / load range btw?
19.5 Rickson wheels & tires run 5k a tire ya know.

...and my pin weight when loaded isn't 20% either.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
But if you want to evade the question it is up to you.

Evading / not bickering with you about loads vs safety isn't the same. I've stated I'm over on certain door specs. I just don't agree that equates to a dangerous menace.
YM(and opinion)MV and you are very welcome to your opinion and your opportunity to voice it.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I am not the weight police.

Ya sure? 😉

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I know the Cummins/Ram can do way more than what the factory says but there is a safe limit and I think you already know that.

Considering I work along side those Chrysler engineers...sure.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will voice my opinion and hopefully help someone see the light.

You opinion is noted, but what your not getting is there is "no light to see". I'm keenly aware I'm over the manufacturers specs. :S

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I have personal experience with being overloaded.

Apparently not as much as I do, as we both seem to agree on...

[Cummins12V98]

larry barnhart wrote:
We had a new 2500 dodge and a new 32 ft fifthwheel. It was a good match for both but I already new if we traded for the 35 ft alpenlite it was not going to be good. I was thinking the 32 ft was the limit for 2 rear wheels. Things have changed but so did we.
chevman

That was the limit with me also. Our 32.5 Avion was perfect for my 98 Ram.