domicile confused

[shannon62]

Hell again we were reading some articles on getting a domicile address, we will be hopefully moving out early 2023, but how far in advance can we get one. Also the articles keep saying you need to prove that you live there, like going to doctors, dentist, banks, etc. Is this really true? We were planning on using our doctor's that we have had for 10 years.

Well any info is welcome, Thanks again

[allen8106]

shannon62 wrote:
Hell again we were reading some articles on getting a domicile address, we will be hopefully moving out early 2023, but how far in advance can we get one. Also the articles keep saying you need to prove that you live there, like going to doctors, dentist, banks, etc. Is this really true? We were planning on using our doctor's that we have had for 10 years.

Well any info is welcome, Thanks again

If you plan to domicile in South Dakota you're only required to spend one night at an RV park and show proof in order register in the state as your domicile.

There are tons of YouTube videos on the subject to help you better understand the process. Here's one link I'm aware of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWc1xlNZDAY

[wanderingbob]

Many people " Domicile " in states that they do not visit for years and years . We claimed domicile in Florida for thirteen years . Foreign service people , military ,travelers . Do ya need to prove anything , in Florida you do not . Go to any courthouse and file a " Proclamation Of Domicile ", you are done . But lets assume that you will want a drivers license and registration of autos , get one ! It is a separate action and they do not have a whole lot to do with domicile . Matter of fact why would you want a domicile , what you might want is a address for documents , forget domicile , get an address for all your needs . Do not confuse " domicile " with what you need/want !

[Ro_n_Joe]

doxiemom11 wrote:
What we did was sign up for the mail forwarding service and changed our address on everything so it started going there. A couple months later we actually went to the state, got the vehicle titles transferred and registered, got our drivers license, changed our insurances to that state, set up banking, registered to vote. It then became our legal domicile/residence and we were given at street address to use at that time for things that require a street address. We did it in the middle of the year and filed our taxes as residents of out old state for part of the year and non-resident the rest of the year. Our new state does not have a state tax. The federal was filed using the new domicile address. The tax part officially documented our move from our old state to the new. We have since filed for our social security and medicare using that same address with no problems.

2X - good writeup. Need to set up your new domicile address 2-3 months ahead to show bank, credit card or bills showing the new address to the DMV and Tax office to prove that you "moved" to the new address. It's not difficult setting up a domicile.

[doxiemom11]

What we did was sign up for the mail forwarding service and changed our address on everything so it started going there. A couple months later we actually went to the state, got the vehicle titles transferred and registered, got our drivers license, changed our insurances to that state, set up banking, registered to vote. It then became our legal domicile/residence and we were given at street address to use at that time for things that require a street address. We did it in the middle of the year and filed our taxes as residents of out old state for part of the year and non-resident the rest of the year. Our new state does not have a state tax. The federal was filed using the new domicile address. The tax part officially documented our move from our old state to the new. We have since filed for our social security and medicare using that same address with no problems.

[valhalla360]

toedtoes wrote:
I was using the "1 month" to show how different the statement is when you lessen the time stated. Spending 1 month in New York versus 8-10 months is more like a vacation. It's pretty obvious you aren't living there, so if the state tries to challenge your domicile, they can be considered being greedy. Everything inbetween becomes more subjective and will depend on many other factors (vehicle registrations, licensing, work, medical care, and so on).

Definitely a sliding scale and other items factor in if you spend a moderate amount of time in your old state.

1 month is unlikely to trigger but it can still be subjective if you say only spent 1 month in your new state while traveling the country. NY has the prior historical claim and you haven't shown a clear intent to live in your new state...It really becomes a question for the lawyers to sort out and other criteria can push the answer one way or the other.

[valhalla360]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?

How much time do you spend in each home and how does that look over time? Just owning a house and paying property tax on it doesn't in itself establish domicile. It's one factor but with multiple houses, it's not an overwhelming factor.

Again, it's about establishing a pattern consistent with domiciling in that state. Owning a home is one factor but if you only spend a couple weeks a year in that state and several months in the old state, you could get challenged on it. If you spend little time in the new state and significant time in other states...it's a gray area.

Changing your license and voter registration and paying income tax in the new state are also factors supporting your claim to domicile.

Of course, if you change your domicile with poor supporting evidence and get away with it for years, it's increasingly unlikely that the old state will come back and challenge you on the issue.

Full timers can have issues in the first few years because it's not clear cut. Generally if there are no red flags, the old state never questions it but as mentioned, for the high income tax states, they are more likely to question it if they find inconsistencies because there is a big financial incentive to do so.

[toedtoes]

valhalla360 wrote:


I agree. If you really spend most of your time in your original state, you are just trying to scam the system. The state may be greedy in their general tax structure but not as it relates to challenging your domicile.

1 month is a poor example as you can still visit your old state while moving your domicile. 8-10 months in the example makes it clear cut that you are really domiciling in your original state.

I was using the "1 month" to show how different the statement is when you lessen the time stated. Spending 1 month in New York versus 8-10 months is more like a vacation. It's pretty obvious you aren't living there, so if the state tries to challenge your domicile, they can be considered being greedy. Everything inbetween becomes more subjective and will depend on many other factors (vehicle registrations, licensing, work, medical care, and so on).

[curt12914]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?

If you do all those things, that is your legal domicile.

A lot of people change their legal domicile to states having low, or no, state income tax. By saying not to complicate things in your prior post, I (and I am betting others, too) felt you were saying to just claim whatever state benefits you.

There are certain things that trigger an income tax audit. Going from years of paying income tax to a state and then paying nothing, would certainly be a factor in determining who is audited.

There are legalities in being considered a legal resident. If you don't meet those legal requirements and have paid no income tax, an audit with the tax due, plus penalties and interest can be very expensive.

[ferndaleflyer]

Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?

[valhalla360]

toedtoes wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

If you move away from NY, California, Illinois on the other hand, they have substantial income taxes and if you leave, they lose that money. If you are really spending 8-10month each year in NY and you have NY drivers license and NY doctors, there is a good chance, NY comes back and challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile because they want their proverbial "pound of flesh" come tax time.

If you are spending 8-10 months per year in New York, using New York resources, roads, etc., then are they really trying to get their "pound of flesh" or are you really domiciled in New York...

I agree with everything else you said, but using "8-10 months each year" rather than say "1 month per year" as the time frame doesn't make New York out to be a greedy state - you are being expected to pay for the resources you are utilizing for the majority of the year.

I agree. If you really spend most of your time in your original state, you are just trying to scam the system. The state may be greedy in their general tax structure but not as it relates to challenging your domicile.

1 month is a poor example as you can still visit your old state while moving your domicile. 8-10 months in the example makes it clear cut that you are really domiciling in your original state.

[toedtoes]

valhalla360 wrote:

If you move away from NY, California, Illinois on the other hand, they have substantial income taxes and if you leave, they lose that money. If you are really spending 8-10month each year in NY and you have NY drivers license and NY doctors, there is a good chance, NY comes back and challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile because they want their proverbial "pound of flesh" come tax time.

If you are spending 8-10 months per year in New York, using New York resources, roads, etc., then are they really trying to get their "pound of flesh" or are you really domiciled in New York...

I agree with everything else you said, but using "8-10 months each year" rather than say "1 month per year" as the time frame doesn't make New York out to be a greedy state - you are being expected to pay for the resources you are utilizing for the majority of the year.

[curt12914]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
I have maintained my primary address in another state for over 20 years without any problems. Pay income taxes, vote, drivers license, vehicle registration, etc. yet I haven't lived there. I own homes in 2 other states + my DP which might be anywhere. Don't make it complicated as it don't have to be.

You can do anything you want until you get caught, but that does not make it legal. If you have never been through an audit, you might tend to think differently about making sure you are legal.

[phillyg]

valhalla360 wrote:
It's not do A, B & C and your domicile is officially changed.

It's establishing a pattern consistent with having a new domicile.
- Traditionally, you sell your house in NY, buy a house in Idaho, live 10-12months of the year in Idaho, all your bills, doctors, etc are now from Idaho, you license, voter registration, etc... is from Idaho...Work tends to be connected to Idaho. It's a very strong pattern that is hard to argue against. It's also very familiar to the authorities and no one is likely to question it.
- Full timing in your RV, you lose many of those obvious triggers that show a traditional pattern of domiciling in Idaho. You may only spend 2-3 months in Idaho (not the majority of your time). You may not have any utility bills or other ongoing links you can point to that say Idaho. You may keep your NY doctors because you like them. You may spend similar time in NY to visit friends and family. You may still have some work connection (if not retired) in NY. It basically creates an inconsistent pattern that doesn't clearly break from being domiciled in NY.

Now if you are moving from Florida to Texas. Neither state really cares as they don't have income taxes or other large taxes associated with being domiciled there. It doesn't cost them anything if you leave. They simply won't care and if no one challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile, it's changed for all practical purposes.

If you move away from NY, California, Illinois on the other hand, they have substantial income taxes and if you leave, they lose that money. If you are really spending 8-10month each year in NY and you have NY drivers license and NY doctors, there is a good chance, NY comes back and challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile because they want their proverbial "pound of flesh" come tax time.

Probably worse now is with remote working, you face a new situation. Lots of people don't really want to move but they may be tempted to skirt the rules and change their domicile even though they are in fact still living in the same state. This makes state officials suspicious and the response is often guilty until proven innocent. They will send a big bill for unpaid income tax and you have to prove you aren't domiciled. These people often use the same mail forwarding services in low tax states, so when these addresses come up, the assumption is you may be doing the same thing.

So there is nothing illegal about moving your domicile but the more you can demonstrate a pattern of not living in your old state, the better your case if they challenge it.

[agesilaus]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
I have maintained my primary address in another state for over 20 years without any problems. Pay income taxes, vote, drivers license, vehicle registration, etc. yet I haven't lived there. I own homes in 2 other states + my DP which might be anywhere. Don't make it complicated as it don't have to be.

Yeah but the blue state tax departments have become much more voracious in recent years. So your experience from 20 years ago does not apply to current behavior.