Full Timing With Weapons

[Larryzv7]

As a fulltime RV’er traveling from State to State what is your general understanding of carrying weapons from one State to another?

I do not have a concealed carry permit but I do keep a .45 cal in my 5th wheel. I also have a 19-million volt Stun Gun, and realize that different States have laws regarding stun guns. I also have some Alaska Bear Spray, which I don’t think is governed by any laws but I would be interested in hearing what others think of bear spray as an effective deterrent against bears?

Now I know I can just do a search of State laws before entering a State but I was just wondering if such laws generally make exceptions for visitors who may only be in a State 90-days or less? As a U.S. Army veteran I know that if I stay at a campground on a military base I have to let the Provost Marshall (Military Police) know that I have a firearm within 24-hours of entering that base.

A few years ago I was camping at a California State Park, and was getting ready to leave that campground after a 14-day stay; I put my unloaded .45 in my tow vehicle and left the ammo in the 5th wheel, which is the legal way to travel with a firearm in your vehicle in many States.

Another camper, who was evidently afraid of guns, saw me put my .45 in my tow vehicle and informed the park ranger that I had a gun. Within minutes 3- park law enforcement vehicles pulled up to my campsite, where I was getting ready to leave, and the park police, with their guns drawn, yelled out for me to get face down on the ground.

I didn’t hesitate because there were 5-of them with guns drawn pointed at me. They asked me if I had a gun; I replied that I did, and the bottom-line is that they gave me a citation for having a lethal weapon on State property. California law says that you can have a gun while camping but it excludes State property.

The citation was a misdemeanor and because I do not have a criminal record I ended up with a $1000.00 fine and 1-year unsupervised probation. Again, I do not have a concealed carry permit and the California Attorney General’s website says that you can have a firearm with you while you are camping, but the park police told me that this did not include State property.

So this is my long story as to why I am asking about generally traveling with a firearm between different States? It is very hard, dependant on the county of your residence, to get a concealed carry in California.

[DianneOK]

I will correct my statement....I was referring to the campgrounds themselves. The cgs we worked/ volunteered at did not allow firearms.

[Larryzv7]

Dianne, I believe that life is full of lessons, some are harder than others, and this one could have been a lot worst. Going forward I have to make some serious decisions about having a gun.

If you click on the link below (The California Firearms Laws Summary) from the California Attorney General’s website, and go to the top of page (7) seven, it reads:

“Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her place of residence, temporary residence, campsite or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the person.”

The California Firearms Laws Summary

Now I understand that the key in the above quoted statement is “Unless otherwise unlawful,” But I had been RVing and carrying my handgun with me for many years in California, prior to my incident, and did not have any problems whatsoever. So this was just another camping trip for me, which turned out to be a lesson about carrying a gun in my RV at State Parks which I evidently needed to learn.

The second link below might leave you scratching your head, because it says that it is okay to have an "unloaded gun" with you while camping at a California State Park. It quotes a statute but I think the information given is less than trustworthy.

California Gun Laws at State Parks

As I stated earlier, the lawyers I spoke with, and the park ranger whom I met about a month after receiving the citation, both said that the park police do not usually do anything about a camper having a gun unless it in some ways bothers other campers. I did do some research a number of years ago before starting to carry a gun with me while camping at state parks, but obviously my research was incomplete.

So the lesson is not to let anyone see that I have a gun; although, as one person who posted a comment on this thread said “don’t even tell the police that you have a gun.” But I have a problem with that, because lying to a law enforcement officer can bring additional charges if the truth is exposed. I am now full-time RVing and if I’m going to keep my gun then I have to make some serious decisions regarding that gun, especially when I camp on military bases or state parks.

Larry:)

[DianneOK]

Larry, most, if not all of the state parks in CA forbid weapons in the campground. Perhaps that was another reason you had the problems you did.

[Larryzv7]

Correction about “Safe Passage Provision.”

I was not traveling from one state to another. I lived in California and was camping at a state park in California. This provision would not apply to me.

Further, I was not arrested, just detained and given a citation. The park police did not book me, they did not take my finger prints or a mug shot. They basically took my gun until after the court appearance and then returned it to me. And they told me, after taking both my gun and my ammo, that it was best if I left the park, which I did with my travel trailer in tow, and went back to my house. But technically there was no arrest and I did get my gun and ammo returned after my court appearance.

P.S. I was getting ready to leave the park anyway, before the police was called, so it was not any great incontinence for me to leave, although it did create a bunch of looky-lues to see a bunch of park rangers around my campsite.

[Larryzv7]

Oldme wrote:
Interesting.

See - "Safe Passage" provision here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

What you have posted pertains primarily to AFT abuses but I can see the parallel with a state pseudo-harassment; using a training exercise to give a citation when otherwise a citation may not have been given; although I do feel maybe that is reaching a little bit.

I have lots of friends who own guns, most of them are veterans, and when I told them about my situation they told me that I should fight it, and gave me various grounds on how I could fight it but let me set the picture for you.

This happened to me before I had started fulltime RVing and the county court where the state park was located where I got the citation was more than 400-miles from where my house was. The nearest RV park was at the state park where I got the citation and I did not want to revisit that park just yet, during the court appearance.

So I drove about 420-miles to that county, stayed in a motel, and then appeared in court the next day bright and early. I had already done some research on the citation which I received, and had talked to two different lawyers about it. I concluded that it was best to just go into the courtroom without a lawyer and plead guilty. In short, the whole ordeal was enough of a deterrent for me to try and not find myself in that situation again.

I felt like with my being an honorably discharged Vietnam veteran, who had done a lot of direct community service to the State of California, a licensed professional who had worked with homeless veterans, drug addicts and the mentally ill, sometimes pro bono, and the gun I had was unloaded and obtained legally, and I had no prior arrests, that I most likely would get no jail time, and fortunately I was correct. Still, my friends did encourage me to fight it.

[Oldme]

Interesting.

See - "Safe Passage" provision here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

[Larryzv7]

Thank you for the clarification.:)

[musicman54]

he felt threanted by you just haveing a gun in the park and because he told the rangers and them pulling guns on you you felt threanted he should have minded his own business you were not a threat to him

[Larryzv7]

musicman54 wrote:
he basicly did the same by telling the ranger i think i know i was state officer in ca for 25 years

He basically did the same what? He did not communicate a threat to me by telling the park ranger. What kind of state officer were you? The issue here is that the laws in a state park are different than the laws outside of the state park.

Law enforcement is suppose to enforce laws, they file charges based on how they see the law and the district attorney either supports those charges or dismisses those charges; so the police do not have the final say. It is the prosecutors and ultimately the courts that determine the legality or illegality of something.

I have been in court many times as an expert witness in substance abuse cases, child custody cases, and mental health cases. Of course those days are gone now and today I do not consider myself an expert at anything. But when I was working I was sometimes called into court to testify for defendants and other times called by prosecutors. If I could not support a case I usually refused to appear, that is unless I received a court order to appear.

The bottom-line is that I could have pleaded not guilty in this case which I described in my OP, and shared with the court how I learned this was a training exercise for the park police, or how I misinterpreted the law, or did not see a sign prohibiting weapons when entering that park, etc. But ignorance is no excuse and so I just plead guilty to save myself some time and money.

As a retired person a misdemeanor has no effect on me unless I get busted again, and fortunately California revised its’ 3-strikes law to not include misdemeanors as part of the 3rd strike. In the past a person got 25-years to life in prison because they had 3-misdemeanor convictions. I have no prior arrests, and I do have to be very careful because I could lose all of my Veterans’ Benefits, which I depend on, if I am convicted of just one felony. That gives me an added incentive to walk the straight and narrow; besides the fact that I would hate to go to prison.

[musicman54]

he basicly did the same by telling the ranger i think i know i was state officer in ca for 25 years

[Larryzv7]

musicman54 wrote:
i would have told the person to mind his own business and would have told he is the reason you carry it from protction from him

That borderlines communicating a threat and you can be arrested in California for communicating a threat to do bodily harm unless you are first threatened by that person. You might also get arrested for inferring a threat, like I have this gun because of someone like you. You have to be very careful what you say to someone when you have a gun in your possession and that person knows you have a gun. Even if that person does not know you have a gun and they call the police, and the police later finds your gun, it makes the threat more viable.

Okay, lets hear from the legal eagles……

[musicman54]

i would have told the person to mind his own business and would have told he is the reason you carry it from protction from him

[Larryzv7]

P.S. I used to live in Texas, was stationed at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio, and Ft. Hood near Killeen, when I was in the army. I later lived as a civilian in San Antonio and drove an ambulance for the Bear County Hospital District.

Driving down the Texas highways I saw signs that said “Don’t Mess With Texas!” And they sort of scared me. Plus I did not care for the huge amount of cock-roach type critters that swarmed the streets and sidewalks of San Antonio during the rainy season.

Nonetheless, I do have some fond memories of Texas. I was married in Texas and my in-laws still lives there.:)

[Larryzv7]

Thanks for the intervention Dianne. USMC46 aka Jim, I was also a college professor, used to teach law enforcement recruits in Colorado drug recognition techniques, or how to recognize drug use, which does not necessarily show up on an alcohol breath test. Further, my brother is a retired Seattle Police Sergeant.

I agree that those officers over-reacted, and as I stated earlier 3 of the 5 officers were going thru California Park Law Enforcement training, as was told to me months later when I met one of the officers while camping at another State park.

I like California and this one incident does not make California distasteful to me. I have lots of perks in California which I could not get in many other states. California has 33-military bases, more than any other state, and as a retired army person who is now full-time RVing I use the Famcamps. I get my medical, dental, and eye care from the VA and from military base health facilities.

I am also a disabled veteran which allows me to camp at California State Parks for free; and California has more than 200-State parks in a variety of landscapes, i.e. near the ocean, in the Mojave desert, the wine valleys, among the biggest in the world redwood trees, or in the high Serria mountains, all in one State. I can camp for 30-days per year free at each state park, and that includes free RV hookups, water, electricity, and sewer when available at a given park.

I pay absolutely no taxes in California, except retail taxes, which I can avoid when I shop on military bases. I get low cost gas on military bases using the Military Star Card, and because of my disability I pay no property taxes on my house, which I have just put on the market for sale.

I am originally from New York, but after traveling a lot in the military, Germany, Japan, Vietnam, etc., and all over the U.S., I like the cultural diversity of California and will probably continue to use it as my address-of-record even after my house is sold. As they say; “different strokes for different folks,” or “we sometimes dance to the beat of a different drummer.”:)

[DianneOK]

I sure wish we had a "LIKE" button here 🙂 Jim, thank you for your thought provoking post. My husband retired with 30 years LEO in CA. We now live in Idaho....and if we did not have family in CA, would never go back.

Needless to say, I am one of the only mods here who will not shut down a gun thread immediately. I believe in having good information availabe to fulltimers, or anyone who wants it.

Carry on, folks.....