Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

[fulltimin]

Started to look into some water damage in the kitchen of our 83 Pace Arrow. The more I looked, the more I found. I have some pics of the damage so far. Anyone interested in following a rebuild thread?

[fulltimin]

Then I pulled up the second piece of plywood, and proceeded to add adhesive, replace the plywood, and screw that one into place.

Yay! 2 down. That's 40% done. Lol.

As you can see, (maybe) the red lines are very near the screws the I put through the plywood.

[fulltimin]

I did manage to get outside today. Managed to get some work done as well.

I pulled up the first piece of plywood right behind the pilot and copilots seats, and proceeded to put some adhesive down, and then put the plywood back down, and screwed it to the floor joists.

Red lines are right next to the screws.

Yay! One down. 20%.

[fulltimin]

STBRetired wrote:

fulltimin wrote:

Your exposure is greater than mine. Lol.

I know it's probably not perfect as a heating solution, especially in an rv, but I figure if I can button this turkey up enough, and cut down on the heat loss, that it might be a workable solution.

I watched a couple of guys converting buses into an rv, and they used the in floor heating technique, running pex. Definitely would be extra work, but the claim is, with the heat at the floor, keeping the floor warm, and then all the heat slowly drifting upwards, that it is a great way to heat a space.

Like I said, I haven't fully decided yet. I want to put some cork on the floor, and see how that feels underfoot, before making a decision.

Having 6 or 8 house batteries would be fantastic, but I am not sure I will be able to tolerate the weight increase, unless using lithium, and at this point, that's probably out of the budget.

Then again, things could change tomorrow, right? Lol. No, I am not going to win the lottery. I don't play, so I can't win.

Thanks for the info.

Was not trying to discourage you from looking at in floor heating. It is definitely way more comfortable than the forced air in my MH. I was just suggesting that you investigate the electrical demands from those systems. I can run my furnace overnight in 20F weather without running my 2 T-105s below 50% SOC. I don't know what difference the pump versus fan will make. And I think your MH will end up with better insulation than mine has.

One caveat that I learned putting in radiant floor heat in the bathroom. Make sure you absolutely know where all the tubing is run. It will be very important when it comes time to drill holes in the floor for plumbing and put in screws to secure cabinetry. Unlike the bathroom where you don't run heat under cabinets and fixtures, I think you will need to do that to keep things inside the cabinets from freezing when it gets really cold.

No discouragement taken. I'd rather find out now, before getting half way through installing pex, and then find out it's not going to work the way I thought. That would be a big bummer.

Definitely must know where the tubing is under the plywood. The one guy who did his bus, drilled into his pex, 3 different places. Oops.

[fulltimin]

wildmanbaker wrote:
When I read the first 2 sentences of you "Black Friday" post, I though, man you are really about half a bubble out of plumb, LOL! Doing the floor first is a good decision. Hot water heat in the floor is kind of high end heating, as it is not the most efficient way to heat. If done correctly, it is also pretty expensive to install. Its also expensive to operate. A propane heater would be the most economical to operate, but would require an outside penetration for exhaust and combustion air. Once you get the subfloor down and the ceiling insulated, you will know where you may want to go from there. Remember, sizing for the average low, or high temperature may be a mistake. If you size for the absolute lowest and highest temperatures may be better, as you don't need to operate the units at max most of the time. Asking for advice is a good idea, but remember, its probably worth just what you have paid for it, LOL.

When I read the first 2 sentences of you "Black Friday" post, I though, man you are really about half a bubble out of plumb, LOL!... Rotfl. That was great! You made my night. Lol.

I thought according to what I read, that using in floor water radiant heating was supposed to be more efficient, and cheaper to operate than most other types of heat.

Is that more "fake advertising"?

Using a pex diameter of 3/8" for a 300 foot run, would only hold less than 2 gallons of water. I would think that it would not take an extreme amount of propane, or even diesel, to heat that amount of water, but I'll have to look into this further, before making a decision.

Then again, some of that, like any heat, would depend on how much leakage there is in the room being heated.

My understanding is that for a pump to move water through a closed system like that, does not require much power to do so, but then again, I could be wrong. I'll have to look a little into pump rates. If it is going to pull 10 amps @ 12 volts, that's a deal breaker.

[fulltimin]

PastorCharlie wrote:
There are some interesting products on the market that block heat transfer and/or sound. I have seen some that are used on race car exhaust manifolds to stop heat transfer. I used one such product in my Jeep Wrangler under the floor cover and it does a little of both; blocking heat and noise. It is also impervious to water. May be something you can use for your build.

I'll have to take a look at what's online. Haven't really explored those products yet, so I'll give it a go shortly. Thanks.

[STBRetired]

fulltimin wrote:

Your exposure is greater than mine. Lol.

I know it's probably not perfect as a heating solution, especially in an rv, but I figure if I can button this turkey up enough, and cut down on the heat loss, that it might be a workable solution.

I watched a couple of guys converting buses into an rv, and they used the in floor heating technique, running pex. Definitely would be extra work, but the claim is, with the heat at the floor, keeping the floor warm, and then all the heat slowly drifting upwards, that it is a great way to heat a space.

Like I said, I haven't fully decided yet. I want to put some cork on the floor, and see how that feels underfoot, before making a decision.

Having 6 or 8 house batteries would be fantastic, but I am not sure I will be able to tolerate the weight increase, unless using lithium, and at this point, that's probably out of the budget.

Then again, things could change tomorrow, right? Lol. No, I am not going to win the lottery. I don't play, so I can't win.

Thanks for the info.

Was not trying to discourage you from looking at in floor heating. It is definitely way more comfortable than the forced air in my MH. I was just suggesting that you investigate the electrical demands from those systems. I can run my furnace overnight in 20F weather without running my 2 T-105s below 50% SOC. I don't know what difference the pump versus fan will make. And I think your MH will end up with better insulation than mine has.

One caveat that I learned putting in radiant floor heat in the bathroom. Make sure you absolutely know where all the tubing is run. It will be very important when it comes time to drill holes in the floor for plumbing and put in screws to secure cabinetry. Unlike the bathroom where you don't run heat under cabinets and fixtures, I think you will need to do that to keep things inside the cabinets from freezing when it gets really cold.

[wildmanbaker]

When I read the first 2 sentences of you "Black Friday" post, I though, man you are really about half a bubble out of plumb, LOL! Doing the floor first is a good decision. Hot water heat in the floor is kind of high end heating, as it is not the most efficient way to heat. If done correctly, it is also pretty expensive to install. Its also expensive to operate. A propane heater would be the most economical to operate, but would require an outside penetration for exhaust and combustion air. Once you get the subfloor down and the ceiling insulated, you will know where you may want to go from there. Remember, sizing for the average low, or high temperature may be a mistake. If you size for the absolute lowest and highest temperatures may be better, as you don't need to operate the units at max most of the time. Asking for advice is a good idea, but remember, its probably worth just what you have paid for it, LOL.

[PastorCharlie]

There are some interesting products on the market that block heat transfer and/or sound. I have seen some that are used on race car exhaust manifolds to stop heat transfer. I used one such product in my Jeep Wrangler under the floor cover and it does a little of both; blocking heat and noise. It is also impervious to water. May be something you can use for your build.

[fulltimin]

STBRetired wrote:
For in floor heating you are going to need something like an AquaHot system to heat and circulate the fluid. Most of them (or maybe all) use a glycol solution as the heating fluid instead of plain water so there is no concern about freezing until you get something like -50F. The only ones I have seen run on diesel fuel. I would think that there might possibly be some that run on propane. You can also get them with a domestic hot water loop which would eliminate the water heater. I have never looked to see how many amp-hours they use to run the pump and burner so I don't know how suited they are for boondocking. Granted, my exposure to them are through several friends with 40+ foot diesel pushers with 6 or 8 battery house banks.

Your exposure is greater than mine. Lol.

I know it's probably not perfect as a heating solution, especially in an rv, but I figure if I can button this turkey up enough, and cut down on the heat loss, that it might be a workable solution.

I watched a couple of guys converting buses into an rv, and they used the in floor heating technique, running pex. Definitely would be extra work, but the claim is, with the heat at the floor, keeping the floor warm, and then all the heat slowly drifting upwards, that it is a great way to heat a space.

Like I said, I haven't fully decided yet. I want to put some cork on the floor, and see how that feels underfoot, before making a decision.

Having 6 or 8 house batteries would be fantastic, but I am not sure I will be able to tolerate the weight increase, unless using lithium, and at this point, that's probably out of the budget.

Then again, things could change tomorrow, right? Lol. No, I am not going to win the lottery. I don't play, so I can't win.

Thanks for the info.

[STBRetired]

For in floor heating you are going to need something like an AquaHot system to heat and circulate the fluid. Most of them (or maybe all) use a glycol solution as the heating fluid instead of plain water so there is no concern about freezing until you get something like -50F. The only ones I have seen run on diesel fuel. I would think that there might possibly be some that run on propane. You can also get them with a domestic hot water loop which would eliminate the water heater. I have never looked to see how many amp-hours they use to run the pump and burner so I don't know how suited they are for boondocking. Granted, my exposure to them are through several friends with 40+ foot diesel pushers with 6 or 8 battery house banks.

[fulltimin]

Once the ceiling is insulated, I will be able to work in comfort this year, unlike last year, since I can heat the area easily and just keep on going. Yay!

I hope to have some pics tomorrow, from getting some work done, so we'll see how it goes.

We'll see how many pieces of plywood I can get glued down in a day. Lol. Depends on how long I work, I guess. Lol.

Hope you are enjoying your Holiday weekend!

[fulltimin]

I've been tossing a few things around for a little while about my next move, and I think I have come to a conclusion.

I think I will glue and screw the floor down next. Once that is in place, I can then add wall coverings, if I want to next. I may work on the roof after the floor, not sure yet. I didn't really want to glue the floor in today with the extreme high humidity. Tomorrow is supposed to be much better, weather wise.

Now that the walls are insulated, the foam insulation does not radiate cold like the steel framing, obviously. It makes a big difference which one I touch, so that's one of the reasons I want to break the thermal barrier between the inside and outside, especially with the steel framing. Less radiant heat or cold coming through, will make a difference in heating and cooling.

With that in mind, after gluing down the flooring, I think I will put some 1/4" cork underlayment on top of the plywood. That should keep a lot of the cold from coming through the flooring. Depending on how that works, will determine what I do next with flooring.

I've been considering, in floor heating using Pex tubing. Most of the in floor heating systems seem to use electric instead of water in the floor, which is not an option, since I want to be able to boondock, and that would be a problem trying to use electric heating.

I haven't really come to a full conclusion about using it, but warm floors might be a really nice feature when the temps are cool.

However, it would take a couple of inches off of the total height between the floor and ceiling, which I can afford, since I raised the roof.

On the other hand, a small wood stove or a small propane heater would be a lot easier to install. Lol.

[fulltimin]

We had a definite rain event today. It was one of those days, that as a tow truck driver, I used to dread! Big time. It rained, it poured, the wind blew at times, and it was in the low 40's, with very high humidity.

That made it feel very cold, just plain ugly. Lol.

Fortunately, I don't have to go out in that junk any more. Yay.

So, I decided to take another day off. Wow, 2 days in a row! Lol. But hey, sometimes it's good to take a break.

[fulltimin]

Well, how did your black Friday shopping go?

What's that you say, you did NOT go shopping? (Gasp)! Lol.

Well, we did. Not Black Friday shopping, just shopping.

Needed a couple of groceries.

Waited until around noon time before going, so most of the crazy shoppers were gone.

We got our groceries, (yes, we ate before going grocery shopping)!

After groceries, went home and took a nap, and then decorated for Christmas, like the wife always does, the day after Thanksgiving. Of course, that also included watching "White Christmas" on Netflix while putting up the decorations.

That was pretty much the extent of our day. It was pretty cold again today, so I just took the day off from the motor home.

I'll try and get out there tomorrow. It's supposed to warm up some, and even more on Sunday and Monday, so we'll see how those days go.

Although, my niece may have a bunch of work on Monday, so I am not sure what time I'll get home on Monday, in order to be able to work.

Hope your Thanksgiving was a great one, with those around you that you love, family, friends, etc.

We'll see how the rest of the weekend goes.

[fulltimin]

Backing up just a touch, I wanted to answer a question that came up earlier about sealing the walls, when drilling holes in them.

In this drawing, the black rectangles, represent the wall, and the red stuff represents the wall covering, like fiberglass.

Instead of just drilling a hole and shoving in whatever item that needs to go through there, if we add some fiberglass, and cover the inside of the hole, and make the inside of the hole one piece with the side wall fiberglass, the water can no longer run down in between the inner and outer side wall covers.

As such, that would eliminate de-lamination, due to water leaks.

In this particular drawing, any water that would get between the fiberglass and the piece that goes in the hole, would have to either run back outside, or it would run down the inside of the wall. That would be very quick to notice, but still protect the center section of the wall where the framing is, whether it is of steel, aluminum, or wood.

If the hole was drilled in an upward direction from the outside in, water would then have to just run back outside.

I hope that is clear, if not, I'll have to try again.







That brings us up to date with work. Time to get back out there again, hopefully tomorrow.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving Day! Thanks for following!