Buying a Former Rental Class C. How many of us out there?

[IAMICHABOD]

While researching these pages for my next Motor Home I saw a few threads discussing Rentals, most were Pros and Cons but very few posts from people who had purchased one.

I thought it may be a good resource and helpful to hear from these people. The good, the bad, what they liked and what they didn’t. Also if they had any problems, things they changed, if they would recommend this to others or do it again.

Here is my story: I am not a novice, having owned a Class A for more than 15 years and doing the camping thing with my wife and two daughters, I can say “been there done that” But life changes, and I sold everything so I have been away from this for several years. Starting over I lurked here for a while and got a lot of good insight then went looking.

My criteria was: A Class C within by budget, less than 30 feet so I can keep it at home, saving storage $, a rear bed, and a lot of storage space.

What fit that was Winnebago, Fleetwood and a few others, what I found mostly was Jamboree / Tioga 26Q. In the year models 2002 thru 2006. I did my home work looking at NADA and other sites to find the fair prices for the models that I was looking for.

After several months of searching the internet, Craigslist, private ads and Dealerships for a Class C that suited my budget and needs, this is what I found. Of the dozen or so I inquired about.Most were upsidedown in their payments, owing more than they were worth. All were on Ford Chassis, 7 needed tires, all had the original 7 to 10 year old tires, and they all needed repair of the awning and most needed some work inside or out and the maintenance records were sketchy, but most had low mileage. The Dealerships offerings were better but they had a profit margin to maintain so I got older models within my budget or huge up sales that didn’t work for me.

My next step was looking at the rental market for sales. In my area there are 2 large companies that have rental sales, Cruise America and El Monte RV,who also sell Class A RVs.

First up was El Monte RV Their units are production RVs that are made by major manufactures, with TV antennas and hookups inside and out, Ducted A/C and heat, 2 house batteries, a rear ladder and parts are readily available from those manufacture’s. I looked at their web site and it detailed their warranty and what was checked and serviced by their factory trained technicians. The unit I looked at was like new inside, the upholstery on all the seats was new as was the floor mat in the driver’s area, it had a new mattress, still in plastic and a new bedspread. All of the curtains were new also. Newer (2010 mfg date) tires with 98% rubber and the mileage was ninety thousand (90,000).

Then there was Cruise America: Their units that I looked at seemed to be Spartan,no TV antenna or hookups for one,non-ducted A/C,small counter space and only one battery, no rear ladder for inspection and maintenance of roof and built just for them, they were all “refreshed” their words not mine. They offered extended warranties at a huge cost. All had high mileage, one hundred and thirty thousand (130,000) or more and the price range seemed a little high. The sales staff had a take it or leave it attitude and were not very forthcoming when asked about maintenance records and service,they claim to have proprietary info in those records,It doesn't seem to be a problem for El Monte RV.

At El Monte RV I took a test ride; This Unit was a 2006 Tioga 26Q on a Chevrolet Chassis it rode
Drove and handled much better than the Fords that I had driven. It also had more leg room and was quieter. We got back and I asked about the service and maintenance on it, the salesman, Joey, handed me a 28 page single spaced document asked if I wanted some coffee or something to drink and said “read this and if you have any questions I will answer them”.

It detailed everything that was done before and after each rental, the mileage, generator hours and hours billed. Each time it was washed and detailed inside and outside, all fluids were checked and replenished if needed, the holding tanks were washed, LP system was checked for leaks, all torque on wheel lugs were checked, brakes front and rear checked for wear and cracks, pressure in tires, all appliances, generator oil, lights inside and outside, the list goes on and on.

It also listed all oil changes,coolant change,trans service,fuel injector service and cleaning,fuel filters,air filter, new brakes, all repairs and replacements all with date, mileage and time spent in complete detail from day one to when it was pulled from the rental fleet and was refurbished. I have a complete service record on this vehicle.Also the service records on the Onan Generator,all oil changes,air filter and spark plug replacement with hours and date. I negotiated a good deal with them and am very happy with my purchase.

It came with a 1 yr. 12000 mile power train warranty and 30 day on all appliances. It also came with a 28 page maintenance record that detailed everything. Also the original sales packet from Fleetwood with the manual and serial numbers on all appliances,refrigerator, microwave,furnace, AC, water heater, etc. and the manual for the Chassis. I have had no problems with it so far.

(ON EDIT) 5 Years and close to 14000 miles.Just Scheduled Maintenance and new tires,old ones were at the 5 year mark and I wanted new Michelin LTX M/S2s.

There were a few things that it didn’t have as it was a rental and the ones from private parties did have.
• Power steps, outside Stereo/CD don’t need or want them.
• An Awning, this I wanted and had installed. A Swivel Seat and a new Window in The Door that I installed.
• Wheel Simulators, I like the looks so I had them installed and at the same time had Tire Man valve stem kit put on.
• Replaced the Chinese WFCO with a US Made converter/charger
• It came with mini blinds and not the day/night that most have, these are more practical and have a lot less failure.

• It also came with Stainless Steel sinks,easier to maintain than the cheap plastic ones that come in the noncommercial units.
  

I am very happy with my Rig, it suites my needs and it was in my Budget range, I think I got a good deal.

So if you bought a rental please share your experience here for others to use as a resource.
Or if there are any other questions that have not been covered in these pages, just ask, there are many helpful people on this thread.

[Perick]

I haven't had my 2008 Ford 31M long enough to comment on all of these, but I will say the general consensus I saw out there before buying mine was the V10 is pretty solid. The same motor/tranny combo is in so many commercial vehicles that 100k miles on one didn't bother me, as long as it was maintained. And after looking at what local dealerships were offering for $35k+, I've been very happy with our choice. For $26k I got 50+ pages of maintenance documentation on ours so I know what was done and at what mileage. The piddly things like loose hinges and other little things I've gone over were the same things I saw on the expensive ones we saw at dealerships.

I don't think I would ever chip mine, I just don't think you're going to gain much. It's a 14,000lb box going down the road, so I've just accepted the fact the mpg will be 7-10mpg.

[BoxinTheCompass]

Great thread here been monitoring here but have some questions that perhaps the kind folks who are owners of previous rental units can advise:

1. On the control panel (tank levels, water pump, etc) there is an indicator that states "Solar Charging When Lit". I think there is a small solar panel on top that charges the house battery to keep it charge. Anybody have any details on this circuit and what its capabilities are?

2. We are seeing some higher mileage Ford V-10's with mileage around 150K... I know it depends on the maintenance history and all, but I am thinking I can still get another 100K of mileage out of the unit before I have to rebuild or replace engine and transmission. What is the expected mileage can one get out of these engine? I am talking like 2007 and higher if it matters.

3. Following up with the above question, how much can you expect to pay for example a refurbished engine and transmission? I couldnt do the work myself and I know alot depends but any rough idea on costs? And who would do this remove and replace a truckstop or would Ford dealer be able to perform this task?

4. Anybody upgrade with chip on the computer for these engines. Seems like someone had mentioned they did this but couldnt find in this thread. If you did what were your results and how much were the costs in doing so?

We are going to Cruise America tomorrow in Kissimee (Orlando) FL just to take a looksee and kick the tires (getting the boss's approval if this is way we want to go) but been curious about this aspect of these Ford V-10's.

Thanks,
Boxin'

[cencerrita]

Just found this blog and wanted to say that wife and I just left Orlando late this afternoon and put a deposit on their only 27G. They are discontinuing this model RV, but like you, looked at the 28A and compared and found the 27G more to our liking. We have full timed in the past, but eventually sold our coach and bought another home. Now, we are wanting to complete our bucket list and visit Alaska. Have been everywhere but there. So, will let you know how it works out. I can do most anything when it comes to the RV itself, so not too worried. 130,000 miles and 1160 on gen. Not opting for the extended warranty, as I have never seen any worth the paper they are written on. On size between the two RV's, it is 4 inches narrower and approximately a foot and a half shorter. Again, the kitchen configuration was better with no offset sink area and I plan on removing that stupid round sink and put in a double, box in the over head compartment up front, add storage there and mount a flat screen TV. I am going to remove the microwave and redo the cabinets and install a convection microwave. Lot's to do before our trip in May! Will keep you posted!

Regards,

Joe


Hi Joe

We are sure you will enjoy the 27G better than the 28A! It is ideal for 2 and has the toilet on the floor and not perched up! Hope to get around in the next week or so to put up photos of the mods we have done - but to give you an idea.
1. Shoe storage space under the bed and above the water tank - plenty of room.
2. End panel made on left of water tank for easy access to winterise valve connection - a must otherwise bed has to be lifted up. Check the drain valve can be turned as in our build the handle was too long and had to be cut - obviously never done!
3. Ikea bed slats under the mattress to allow it to breath and also very comfortable 🙂 Removed the plastic cover on existing mattress and also the plastic cover found on the mattress inside! Everything can now breath and springs in mattress also work better! (initially we had put a Ikea topper on it)
4. Double pole isolator switch for the convection oven we have, so no power drain when using solar and not in use (control panel lights)
5. Invertor under the sink unit in large space after removing existing heating pipes and tidying up cables. Faces out to the steps. (Removed fire extinguisher and moulded housing t fit.) Invertor just above battery and short cables.
6. Fire extinguisher now fitted on step right as you come in on the ledge without using moulding. Just bracket onto side.
7. Refitted new panels in the under sink cupboard after fitting the invertor facing outwards and bigger space for storage.
8. New type 31 sealed marine battery from Academy Sports (109 euros). Just because it has 12.5 v plus does not mean it is good - you need a load tester.
8.2 x solar panels with control panel just above invertor. At present I have decided not to fix panels on the roof and keep the 20ft cable coiled on top of the battery. Quick and easy to take out and put panels wherever we want around the vehicle. (Lots of people when parked up do not have panels in best direction due to space they are allowed and views they want from their windows.
9.Motorscooter rack on the back hitch which seems to be working well.
10. 12v to 5W usb outlets 1A and 1.5A supply.(later models started to have them as part of the sockets) One each side of the bed and one above main table.
The jury is still out on the final over cab space with different ideas and looking at creating a comfy settee area as well.
look forward to hearing how you get on. Feel free to email direct if you want anything.

oh we are getting 10.5 mpg on the interstate at 60mph and lowest we have had so far in total is 9.5 🙂

Oh when you do a final inspection fill the tanks up full and not just to gauge full. We had a leak on our black tank to socket fitting below the toilet. Found when max full and/or moving to dump station and sloshing! Leaks outside underneath.

Alan

[Mich_F]

cencerrita wrote:
Only used the generator for 3 minutes once (microwave)!

Hopefully you realize that generators are made to be run. Not running/exercising them enough, often results in costly problems.

[foretravelman]

cencerrita wrote:
We picked up our Cruise America majestic 27G November 13th 2015 and have just had a great time on our first outing of 35 days with as much off grid camping as possible. On the back we have a Rowdy SSR 150 scooter which has proven ideal for excursions when parked up, including climbing up mountains with 2 up, in the Chisos mountains at Big Bend.
Anyone who would like more info on the 27G which is only just coming available from Cruise America please ask. They are only on the West coast and across to Phoenix. I hope to write a lot more up about them on Goodsam and the differences between the 28A and 27G before we are off on the next trip in February.
🙂

Just found this blog and wanted to say that wife and I just left Orlando late this afternoon and put a deposit on their only 27G. They are discontinuing this model RV, but like you, looked at the 28A and compared and found the 27G more to our liking. We have full timed in the past, but eventually sold our coach and bought another home. Now, we are wanting to complete our bucket list and visit Alaska. Have been everywhere but there. So, will let you know how it works out. I can do most anything when it comes to the RV itself, so not too worried. 130,000 miles and 1160 on gen. Not opting for the extended warranty, as I have never seen any worth the paper they are written on. On size between the two RV's, it is 4 inches narrower and approximately a foot and a half shorter. Again, the kitchen configuration was better with no offset sink area and I plan on removing that stupid round sink and put in a double, box in the over head compartment up front, add storage there and mount a flat screen TV. I am going to remove the microwave and redo the cabinets and install a convection microwave. Lot's to do before our trip in May! Will keep you posted!

Regards,

Joe

[cencerrita]

Good to hear from someone who has a RV from Cruise America for several years. Just returning from the second of 2 trips this Winter of 6 weeks and 4 weeks and all as expected with our new to us October 27G.
We brought a new 31 size house sealed marine battery from Academy and with our added 200W solar had no problems with 14 days off grid at padre Island. Only used the generator for 3 minutes once (microwave)!

[BicycleBob]

I purchased a 2007 model Majestic 28P from the Orlando Cruise America location in September 2013.
Since I am not local, I called Orlando about my interest and the salesman suggested an RV that I agreed to purchase.
It had 136351 miles on the odometer and about 1173 hours on the generator. When they said it was ready for pickup,
I rented a Cruise America motor home at the Durham, NC outlet and drove it to Orlando. I inspected the RV and they
replaced a light bulb and a missing wardrobe rod. They demonstrated that the appliances worked. I paid $22235 for it,
transferred my stuff to the new RV, returned the rental unit and drove off.
The RV is as good as I wanted. It needed a new starting battery since I found that I had to push the auxiliary
start switch in order to start the engine. It also need a 20 amp fuse for the cigarette lighter. I stopped at Walmart
for these on the way back to Durham. I noticed that 4th gear of the transmission growled and was louder than I liked.
The shift from 1st to 2nd gear (or 2nd to 3rd perhaps) was not always smooth - especially after a long drive. I drive
unaggresively so the transmission is working without failure. I had one of the running lights and the license plate
light fixed upon the first annual inspection. I have had no major failures of the power train and the Check Engine light
has never appeared. I routinely must add about a quart of coolant per 150 miles or so but the mechanic could not find
the leak so I live with it. I replaced 2 old tires (the other 4 were already new), replaced the coach water pump (after it
failed), replaced the cruise control relay, upgraded the interior lights to LED, replaced the coach battery, added 2 more
Walmart deep-discharge batteries, 400 watts of solar panels to the roof, and a couple of inverters. The solar upgrade
was DIY and definitely looks it but helps a little with boondocking. The motor home initially weighed about 12420 pounds
out of a GVWR of 14050 pounds so it had 1630 pounds of cargo carrying capacity.
The only problem that I am currently having is what may be a small roof leak at the front cap. I have taped and
caulked away and when rain is forecast, park with a tilt to the rear to discourage water ponding at the seam. I run a
heater fan in the cabover area too. I am waiting for a heavy thunderstorm while parked to tell me if I still have a leak.
It could just be condensation. I also had a door leak in the shower but I fixed that. I also appeared to have a cracked
shower floor pan but taping that area has worked so far.
I use the motor home for two 11-week trips per year then every other week when at home. It is parked in covered
storage when at home. Currently, the odometer is 162,300 miles and the generator is 1283 hours. Most of my driving is
in flat terrain near the coasts but I have also driven in the Appalachian mountains some.
I am satisfied with my purchased motor home and hope to upgrade to a newer former-rental Cruise America this fall.

[cencerrita]

We picked up our Cruise America majestic 27G November 13th 2015 and have just had a great time on our first outing of 35 days with as much off grid camping as possible. On the back we have a Rowdy SSR 150 scooter which has proven ideal for excursions when parked up, including climbing up mountains with 2 up, in the Chisos mountains at Big Bend.
Originally due to the location we had a survey carried out for us. When we picked it up a few small problems we found were fixed when we returned after a couple of days camping. During the process of buying we found CA helpful with our many protracted long emails and questions! They even stored for us on arrival many (and I mean many!) parcels we had delivered so we had everything set up ready for our trip. This was from motorcycle carrier to solar panels to …. Well everything! Then all we had to do was pick up the Rowdy we had ordered from AZ Scooters, Phoenix.
One problem we had was a flat outer right tyre one morning when checking – so glad we had brought a compressor from Harbour Freight. Pumped it up and fitted a valve cap from the scooter (none on the RV – but now all fitted!) as found air leaking from the valve. 30 miles later in the nearest town an new valve fitted free by tyre company ?. We now also have a valve tool for checking they are tight!
We original started in Orlando hiring a Majestic 28A for 2 weeks and then flying to Phoenix to pick up our 27G. We were reimbursed our flight costs up to $500 and our rental costs as per their agreements. Having used both models we have found the 27G ideal for 2 people and preferably to the 28A. It is slightly smaller than the 28A (about 1 foot narrower and 2 ft shorter ) but with the E450 wing mirrors the same width when passing!
We have added solar panels and by being careful spent up to 6 days off grid.
Anyone who would like more info on the 27G which is only just coming available from Cruise America please ask. They are only on the West coast and across to Phoenix. I hope to write a lot more up about them on Goodsam and the differences between the 28A and 27G before we are off on the next trip in February.
🙂

[Perick]

Mich F wrote:
Although this motor home is considered a 2008, it is built on a 2007 chassis. Ford did make considerable changes to the chassis in their 2008 model year. That being said, it looks like this MH was was rated at 14,050# GVWR (as were all Fords for that and a number of previous years). Fleetwood gave this MH a 19,050 GCWR,(with a 350# tongue weight limit) which should mean with the proper hitch it could pull 5,000#.
For others who might run into the same situation, the easiest way to tell if its a 2008 (or newer) chassis is the considerable differences in the front grill, which were made in the 2008 model year.
Of course there are some manufacturers that will list the specs of the cab manufacturer in their literature, but not equip their motor homes to those specs. An example of that is my 2014 Itasca E450 (on a 2013 chassis built by Ford in 12/12, with house built by Itasca in 1/13). They list the Ford specs of 14,500# GVWR and 22,000# GCWR in their literature, but then put a 5,000# hitch on it along with a sticker saying not to exceed 350# tongue weight. I can understand the tongue weight limit, but not so much the 5,000# hitch. I believe if the frame was stretched to the Ford specs, it should still be rated to tow 7,500#.

That is exactly what happened in this case. The 08 Brochure shows the same front end that the 07 and previous years had. So when I was looking at the 09 Class C's, they all had that new look. Never occurred to me to look at 08 Ford chassis, otherwise I would have saw the new look.

In the end, we'll just upgrade the hitch since my dingy is just over 3500#, we should be well under 5,000#.

[Mocoondo]

With multi stage RVs such as a Class C, the year of manufacture is the year of final completion. It can be as much as two years off from the year of the chassis.

[Mich_F]

Although this motor home is considered a 2008, it is built on a 2007 chassis. Ford did make considerable changes to the chassis in their 2008 model year. That being said, it looks like this MH was was rated at 14,050# GVWR (as were all Fords for that and a number of previous years). Fleetwood gave this MH a 19,050 GCWR,(with a 350# tongue weight limit) which should mean with the proper hitch it could pull 5,000#.
For others who might run into the same situation, the easiest way to tell if its a 2008 (or newer) chassis is the considerable differences in the front grill, which were made in the 2008 model year.
Of course there are some manufacturers that will list the specs of the cab manufacturer in their literature, but not equip their motor homes to those specs. An example of that is my 2014 Itasca E450 (on a 2013 chassis built by Ford in 12/12, with house built by Itasca in 1/13). They list the Ford specs of 14,500# GVWR and 22,000# GCWR in their literature, but then put a 5,000# hitch on it along with a sticker saying not to exceed 350# tongue weight. I can understand the tongue weight limit, but not so much the 5,000# hitch. I believe if the frame was stretched to the Ford specs, it should still be rated to tow 7,500#.

[paullac]

Regarding the awning -

We had two pop ups and now a class c with a power awning (so that's all we really know). Power is kind of nice as it's a press of a button and done. But, as the previous poster said, more to break. Plus, the bigger factor in my mind, is the power ones are NOT that sturdy. We bring ours in pretty quickly when there's wind and pretty much anytime we leave for an extended period of time. This, in effect, makes it less useful in my opinion.

[paullac]

Regarding the hitch -

If it's an '08, it could be equipped to the '08 spec regardless of the chassis / coach year. I think some of the manufacturers introduce their new stuff as running changes.

Also, the bumper change does not necessarily mean the hitch got changed too.

Perhaps a hitch shop can confirm what's installed before you swap it out.

[IAMICHABOD]

Perick wrote:

Where did you guys get your awnings installed? What brand do you guys prefer?

I opted for the Dometic 8500, I like the manual ones over the powered ones,less to go wrong and it is more adjustable to what I want to accomplish when using it.It can be tilted end to end and can be converted to Patio Style if wanted, no ducking the arms and easy access to put up my Sun Blocker .

I have a very good Camping World near me and I had them install it,they did an excellent job.The cost was $866 installed.

[Perick]

I see in my service history that the bumper was replaced with an 04 Jamboree bumper. I kind of wonder if the hitch didn't get swapped out at the same time.
In looking at the 2008 brochure, they have the 2007 ford chassis in all of the pictures. Since all of the specs are the same between the 2007 Tioga and the 2008, I'm going to just upgrade the reciever and resolve our issue.

Just confirmed with my salesman that it is an 08. I'm gonna guess the reciever was swapped when the bumper was.

Where did you guys get your awnings installed? What brand do you guys prefer?