E350 vs E450 chassis pros and cons for a short 24 ft class C

[Gjac]

If one were looking to get a 24 ft Class C is there any advantage to get the E450 chassis over the more common E350? Is the HP increased in the 450? Ride quality stiffer? Front end components more robust? Larger tires? Any other considerations?

[ron_dittmer]

tatest wrote:
You want GVWR 1500 to 2000 pounds more than empty weight of the RV. Much less than 1500, you tend to overload. A whole lot more than 2000 pounds, ride will be rougher unless you can load close to GVWR; it is not like air suspensions, which adjust actual spring weights to a ride height.

Yep!

When loaded up (your heaviest scenario) you want to be close to your chassis GVWR. Doing so will provide a reasonably comfortable and tolerable ride. Otherwise driving on poor road surfaces, it will feel like you are driving an empty box truck with loose houseware lying on the floor, and if you are not careful, you could chip a tooth or bite your tongue. Your cup holders will be useless because your drinks will never stay in your cups....maybe your cups will not stay in the holders. In such a case with a short & light weight RV house on an E450 chassis, get the springs modified to consider your actual load to get that smoother ride.

[tatest]

You want GVWR 1500 to 2000 pounds more than empty weight of the RV. Much less than 1500, you tend to overload. A whole lot more than 2000 pounds, ride will be rougher unless you can load close to GVWR; it is not like air suspensions, which adjust actual spring weights to a ride height.

There are not a lot of differences between to two chassis. E-350 once had a taller rear axle ratio, and option for 5.4 V8 rather than 6.8 V10. Now, with same engine, performance is equal. E-450 gets stronger rear brakes for extra 2000-3000 pounds of capacity, and higher recommended inflation pressures for same size tires.

[pnichols]

Let me attempt to be more precisely precise: What our RV has in it - as originally installed by Winnebago - is a six (6) gallon water storage and delivery tank that is capable of warming the water in it to, and holding that water at, any temperature as set by it's control.

Whew ... time for a coffee and/or popcorn break ... but unfortunately I'll have to start the generator for either one or both of those. :S

[DrewE]

bobndot wrote:
Lets call them water boilers.
Suburban, Atwood and tankless water boilers :B

No, surely they're hot water boilers! 😛 :B

[bobndot]

Lets call them water boilers.
Suburban, Atwood and tankless water boilers :B

[Dusty_R]

DrewE wrote:
Alternately, you can just realize that a hot water heater is the heater for the hot water system, just as the engine block heater is the heater for the engine block and a space heater is a heater for the space enclosed in a room.

One may equally well ask why residential hot water heating systems (not potable water heaters, but hydronic room heating) have what is generally called a "boiler" even though the water never ever reaches a boiling temperature....

The boiler for a hot water heating system can also be setup to produce steam for a steam heat system.

[DrewE]

Alternately, you can just realize that a hot water heater is the heater for the hot water system, just as the engine block heater is the heater for the engine block and a space heater is a heater for the space enclosed in a room.

One may equally well ask why residential hot water heating systems (not potable water heaters, but hydronic room heating) have what is generally called a "boiler" even though the water never ever reaches a boiling temperature....

[pnichols]

I guess it depends upon what "hot" means to a person.

If a water heater's control is set to maintain it's water contents at say, 122 degrees F, and it's temperature sensor kicks in the heating mechanism (propane flame or electric resistance coil) whenever the temperature of the water inside the tank sinks down to around say, 119 degrees F ... then I guess the RV'ers "hot 119 degree water" is being heated hotter to bring it back up to the control's set temperature of 122 degrees.

Note that of course a water heater cycles on and off to maintain the water in it "to around" the set temperature of it's control ... so the (hot) water inside the tank actually varies between two "hot temperature" conditions.

Hence ... what we have is a water heater that spends a lot of time heating water that is "already hot"". That's why I call the water heater in our RV mostly a "hot water heater"!

(Navy RV'ers can call it what they want. 🙂 )

[Dusty_R]

pnichols wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
Thanks, guys for clearing that up. I usually learn something new almost every time I log in.

Growing up with a Navy Master Chief for a father I vividly recalling him making many corrections... One of my favorites that this Forum often reminds me of regards water heaters.

Every time I ever said "hot water heater" he would explode... It is not a hot water heater, it is a water heater. If the damned water is hot you have no need to heat it!

Seriously dad? I guess it was a Navy thing. LMAO!

:B

Well ... as a lowly ex AF guy ... who am I to bash the Navy.

HOWEVER, a water heater is indeed a hot water heater if one keeps it turned on all the time so as to all the time keep the water in it hot that is already hot. 😉 and :B

My question is. How do you heat hot water?
You heat cold water with a water heater.

[pnichols]

Desert Captain wrote:
Thanks, guys for clearing that up. I usually learn something new almost every time I log in.

Growing up with a Navy Master Chief for a father I vividly recalling him making many corrections... One of my favorites that this Forum often reminds me of regards water heaters.

Every time I ever said "hot water heater" he would explode... It is not a hot water heater, it is a water heater. If the damned water is hot you have no need to heat it!

Seriously dad? I guess it was a Navy thing. LMAO!

:B

Well ... as a lowly ex AF guy ... who am I to bash the Navy.

HOWEVER, a water heater is indeed a hot water heater if one keeps it turned on all the time so as to all the time keep the water in it hot that is already hot. 😉 and :B

[Desert_Captain]

Thanks, guys for clearing that up. I usually learn something new almost every time I log in.

Growing up with a Navy Master Chief for a father I vividly recalling him making many corrections... One of my favorites that this Forum often reminds me of regards water heaters.

Every time I ever said "hot water heater" he would explode... It is not a hot water heater, it is a water heater. If the damned water is hot you have no need to heat it!

Seriously dad? I guess it was a Navy thing. LMAO!

:B

[pnichols]

Desert Captain wrote:
Phil, when we bought our coach used from La Mesa RV they told me it had a 40-gallon tank. It was showing nearly empty and when I went to the gas station it took 50 gallons. That pinned the needle on the gauge and I don't think I have ever gotten that much in again only because I never let it get that low. When I called Nexus and asked for the specs from the original sale it showed the 55-gallon tank the original owners opted and I assume, paid for.

Are you saying your E-450 does not have an AC water heater? I thought all of the Ford Class C's came with them. :h When we do have an electric hook up {which is not all that often} I always run ours on AC and save my propane for heat and cooking.

:C

Drew E answered pretty well your inquiry regarding power for our Class C's hot water heater.

Our rig uses an Atwood 6 gallon propane powered hot water heater that is common in many RVs. This hot water heater does not have on it the option for use of 120V AC power heating, instead of propane heating.

A propane-only hot water heater has never been a problem for us because it heats it's 6 gallons so fast and it's insulation keeps the water hot for long - that we can keep it turned off most of the time - so it's propane use on camping trips is trivial.

HOWEVER ... should we ever have a propane system failure when out and about in our Class C ... having this hot water heater option would allow us to get by in our RV nicely with only the Onan generator and the Ford's 55 gallon main fuel tank.

[DrewE]

Desert Captain wrote:

Are you saying your E-450 does not have an AC water heater? I thought all of the Ford Class C's came with them. :h When we do have an electric hook up {which is not all that often} I always run ours on AC and save my propane for heat and cooking.

:C

Ford doesn't install any sort of water heater in the chassis; that's installed by whatever company builds the RV. (The E450 chassis may just as well be destined for a box truck or ambulance or shuttle bus as for an RV, and those have no need of a water heater.) Many, many class C's, especially older ones and/or those with 30A electrical systems, have gas-only water heaters, regardless of the chassis on which their built. Mine is one of them...though it's built on an E-SuperDuty chassis, before they decided to call the model the E-450.

[Desert_Captain]

Phil, when we bought our coach used from La Mesa RV they told me it had a 40-gallon tank. It was showing nearly empty and when I went to the gas station it took 50 gallons. That pinned the needle on the gauge and I don't think I have ever gotten that much in again only because I never let it get that low. When I called Nexus and asked for the specs from the original sale it showed the 55-gallon tank the original owners opted and I assume, paid for.

Are you saying your E-450 does not have an AC water heater? I thought all of the Ford Class C's came with them. :h When we do have an electric hook up {which is not all that often} I always run ours on AC and save my propane for heat and cooking.

:C

[pnichols]

Desert Captain wrote:
My 55-gallon tank takes 55 gallons... No amount of "topping up" changes the physics of the tank. Since I prefer to drive on the top half of the tank and rarely if ever let it get below one quarter where the generator won't run if needed I avoid getting lower than that at all costs.

As always... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

I'm not sure what I've noticed in our E450 is related to the physics of the tank. I suspect that it might be related to the evaporative emission control system Ford uses in their Series E vans.

If it is as I suspect above, I get around the Ford system's filling limitations versus gas station fuel pump vapor sensing shutoff systems ... by trickle filling to get the last 5-6 gallons into it's supposedly 55 gallon ... tank.

I have to do the same thing on my GMC pickup and our Lexus sedan in order to get all of the gallons of fuel into their tanks that they say they hold in their specifications. I wonder if this "never really full" problem might be widespread in the vehicles that we - in at least the U.S. - drive.

I like plenty of onboard fuel in our Class C whenever heading out into the middle of nowhere, and an additional 5-6 gallons to reach a true 55 gallons of course helps - especially if unexpected long generator runs turnout to ever be needed.

I consider our large fuel tank along with our built-in Onan generator - if ever needed to when not on hookups - heat our coach, cool our coach, power it's refrigerator, pop our popcorn, deep fat fry our fish and chips, and cook our other food by powering a hot plate and the microwave. I only wish that we had one more electric feature in our Class C to complete this no-hookup emergency self-contained picture -> a water heater that is both propane powered and 120V AC powered. :S