High end gasser or entry level DP

[way2roll]

As we continue to shop for our new rig to start full time next year I keep teetering on gas vs diesel. (sort of full time - 6 mons at a time, break for a month, 6 months out...) My only real life experience is with gassers. We've had 2 and very entry level. While we loved both coaches and they served as great weekenders, one of our biggest complaints was ride quality. The harsh road feedback and the noise. Very loud and hard to hold a conversation. Both MH's were ACE's and poorly insulated (if at all) and light which I think worsened the harshness of the ride. Our budget puts us at a fairly new but used high end gasser, or a 4-6 year old used entry level DP (Excursion, Palazzo, Sportscoach etc) I don't want to go any older. I am aware of the difference in how a DP rides vs gasser, night and day. But what about a higher end gasser - like a Newmar or Tiffin ? Do they ride smoother and more quiet than an entry level coach despite being on the same F53? And how dramatic is the difference between say a Canyon star or Allegro than an entry level DP? Do all DP's ride pretty much the same or do higher end DP's ride better than entry level ones? I know I need to take some test rides and that was my plan, but as we all know doing that right now has been difficult.

There's also the question of if I need a DP at all. Our travel days will be relatively short (that's the plan anyway), and stays longer. But despite loving our previous coaches, they were a nightmare to be in while riding, and I am really concerned about ride comfort. And as we all know, plans often change and we may find ourselves with occasional long days in the saddle. I should also add I know very little about diesels. Not that I did a lot of maintenance on our gassers, but at least I was able to do standard stuff. Anything house related - I am good.

Appreciate the thoughts.

[tropical36]

way2roll wrote:

wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

I wasn't asking for someone to make my decision for me. I know what my needs are. I was asking for information on the differences in ride, amenities and quality between a high end gasser and an entry level DP, Having not been in many pushers I thought folks on here would provide some insight.

IMO and from what I've seen, a high end gasser and an entry level DP are pretty much equal, except for the ride and just as long as the DP has air bags. In that dept. there shouldn't be any comparison, between riding on air vs flexing steel. Then there's the engine noise between the driver and passenger which is pretty obvious.
I think the biggest thing that amazes me with our first Diesel here, is the low end torque, that it has. I mean, here we are, cranking a measly 1500rpm, while carrying all this weight, as well as pulling a fairly heavy toad up miles of 6% grades or more, without a sweat.
This vs a screaming banshee, right next to you, trying to accomplish the same thing, which it still can't do, in many cases.

[way2roll]

wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

I wasn't asking for someone to make my decision for me. I know what my needs are. I was asking for information on the differences in ride, amenities and quality between a high end gasser and an entry level DP, Having not been in many pushers I thought folks on here would provide some insight.

[tropical36]

wolfe10 wrote:
What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

You got that right and for us with houses, it was always location, location, location.
For cars, it was quality first, within our budget and as a result, have only bought one new one in my lifetime and that was a mistake, even though, many would say, it was too good a deal to pass up.
I've never bought a new RV or boat either, but never entry level.

[wolfe10]

What this thread reinforces is that there is no IDEAL coach for everyone.

Choose what meets YOUR needs, not what others have chosen to meet theirs.

No different than choosing a home, a car or most other things.

Agree, getting input on how others have made the best decision for THEM can certainly help-- again the same for choosing a car, etc.

[Rikilee]

I went through a similar thought process last year. We wanted to full time, wasn't 100% sure how long or if we would like it. We owned MH's since the 80's. I considered purchasing a fairly new DP or gas. I considered the cost and availability of service, repairs, performing my own general maintenance. I thought about resale if we decided we didn't want to continue full time and wanted to purchase another house.

My decision was to purchase a good MH that we would be comfortable in for 2 years of full time. The price range was set so if we decided not to continue, we could justify the cost and resale value. After 2 years we will know exactly what we need. If we continue to full time we will upgrade and purchase our ideal unit.

[way2roll]

Wanderlost wrote:
Our personal experience:

We had a 32' Itasca Sunrise for 14 years, which came loaded with everything Winnebago could put on a gasser. Lived in it for a while after retirement. Loved that MH with a passion. It was somewhat noisy, but after we did a little extra insulation in the roof cap, it was fine. Ride was very smooth after we installed Bilstein shocks. The overall quality of that MH was truly amazing to us.

We traded her in, very reluctantly, for a 2018 Winnebago Forza 34T, and our shakedown cruise was to Alaska and back. The ride is smooth, yes, but a good wind or a passing semi on a two-lane road will knock her around even worse than the Sunrise. We're having to install some kind of stabilizer to stop that. As for noise, it's just as loud as the Itasca was. Why? Because Winnebago Does. Not. Install. Insulation. in the front cap. Zip. Nada. We will have to do it ourselves again. The storage is not near as good as it was in the Itasca, and the overall layout is not near as comfortable. I really do like the fireplace, though. Finally, the 34T can't pull anything heavier than could the Sunrise (both limited to 5000 lbs), so why did we even bother?

The cons of this MH over our beloved Sunrise are too many to mention. Frankly, if I could, I'd get my old Sunrise back and lose the diesel MH. I'm honestly not seeing the overall value.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a used high end gasser, one that can pull a toad heavier than 5000 lbs if you need it. Good luck in whatever you choose.

Great feedback, Thanks! That's really the overarching question. Does an entry level DP handle and ride quieter and more comfortably than a high end gasser? Otherwise, why spend the money. Once things loosen up I am really looking forward to driving lots of both back to back for a true comparison. I can tell you our ACEs were miserable to drive. Loud and rough is an under statement. It felt like we were in a bombing raid. But they were as entry level as you could get.

BTW - love your Gandhi quote - my wife has that on a T-shirt.

[Wanderlost]

Our personal experience:

We had a 32' Itasca Sunrise for 14 years, which came loaded with everything Winnebago could put on a gasser. Lived in it for a while after retirement. Loved that MH with a passion. It was somewhat noisy, but after we did a little extra insulation in the roof cap, it was fine. Ride was very smooth after we installed Bilstein shocks. The overall quality of that MH was truly amazing to us.

We traded her in, very reluctantly, for a 2018 Winnebago Forza 34T, and our shakedown cruise was to Alaska and back. The ride is smooth, yes, but a good wind or a passing semi on a two-lane road will knock her around even worse than the Sunrise. We're having to install some kind of stabilizer to stop that. As for noise, it's just as loud as the Itasca was. Why? Because Winnebago Does. Not. Install. Insulation. in the front cap. Zip. Nada. We will have to do it ourselves again. The storage is not near as good as it was in the Itasca, and the overall layout is not near as comfortable. I really do like the fireplace, though. Finally, the 34T can't pull anything heavier than could the Sunrise (both limited to 5000 lbs), so why did we even bother?

The cons of this MH over our beloved Sunrise are too many to mention. Frankly, if I could, I'd get my old Sunrise back and lose the diesel MH. I'm honestly not seeing the overall value.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a used high end gasser, one that can pull a toad heavier than 5000 lbs if you need it. Good luck in whatever you choose.

[way2roll]

DW and I are really liking what we see in the Winnie/Itasca - Forza/Solei lineup. I think the fit and finish is better than a lot of entry level DP offerings (Pallazzo, Sportscoach, FR Legacy, FW Excursion), a few of the floor plans would work. The price point is a little higher than we initially budgeted, but still significantly less than Newmar or Tiffin. I like Tiffin and Newmar but they just don't offer floor plans that would work, or decor we like. In the past few years, Winnie has stepped up their game to offer a more modern decor. I feel like Newmar and Tiffin still gravitate to a more traditional style - nothing wrong with that, but it's not for us. And they are highest price of all the brands - sans custom.

[FloridaRosebud]

way2roll wrote:

timjet wrote:
From the title of this thread, I would never buy an entry level anything. You must determine gas or diesel but consider you can afford a DP and a quality one if you go back enough years. We purchased a 10 yo quality DP and had it inspected, especially the chassis, and have not been disappointed. The ride is soft and comfortable, conversation easy even after almost 100,000 miles.
2007 and earlier eliminates the DPF and DEF hassles.

What you are saying makes sense and I had thought of going older to get a higher quality coach. The issue is floorplans. A high end DP older than 7 years doesn't have the floorplans to support 3 adults (2 parents and a 17 yr old) and a work space (I work remote full time) to full or even part time. Seems like all the higher end units - even newer ones- cater to 2 people only. Entry level DP's seem to cater more toward families. Of the hundreds of floorplans I have scoured in coach years over the past decade, there are really only a few that will work for us. I had even thought of going with a 15-20 yr old Prevost and gutting it to make it what I want but, I don't have the time, the space, or the ambition for a project like that. While quality is important, our hierarchy is floorplan, reliability, then comfort and quality. There is also the thought that a 10 yr old coach will start to need mechanical things replaced/fixed sooner than a 5 yr old one. What is in our budget and floorplans are high end gassers or an entry level DP's. All that said, DW and I have started looking more into the mid level DP's. They seem to hit most of what we are after but they start to creep out of our initial budget. We may be changing our budget. I don't want to have regrets with this coach, wishing we should have spent a little more to get that coach we liked more than the one we bought.

On edit - there is also the issue of financing. Originally we thought we would sell the home and full time. That would have allowed us to buy a lot more coach. We've changed our minds and keeping the house until my son decides where he wants to go to college. So our budget has changed and so has our need for financing. The older the coach, the more difficult if not impossible to get financing. I think most banks won't lend on an RV older than 10 years - and if they did I imagine terms would be poor.

We bought a 2006 National gasser in 2018 and financed for 15 years (on purpose, and in 2 years we have paid the loan down by 40% - that was the plan), and to date have only spent about $1300 to fix things that have broken. We have bought new tires and batteries (normal wear items) and upgraded the fridge to a residential unit, but if you get a motor home that has been well taken care of with all the proper maintenance performed you shouldn't have the problem with lots of stuff breaking. So personally I would have no problems buying an 8-10 year old DP.

Just my 2 cents....

Al

[azdryheat]

I drive a lot of assorted motorhomes at work. I've found that you tend to get what you pay for. In the gasser catagory I find that there is more engine soundproofing in Newmar and Tiffin than Winnebago, Fleetwood, and Thor. I've found that diesels have quiet engines in the back and smoother rides but the less expensive units (Thor) tend to have more wind noise and rattles.

If I was doing a few trips a year I'd get a gasser. For full-timing I'd get a diesel.

I prefer Tiffin products overall because they just feel right.

[way2roll]

ferndaleflyer wrote:
2nd mortgage or a line of credit on your home lets you keep your home and buy what you want, Usually interest this way is less than conventional financing also

If you have the equity. Loan to value requirements for HELOC's are usually 80% or more. We just built this home 2 years ago. While we are in a hot/resort area and have some equity, it's not nearly enough. We would have to almost own the home outright to leverage enough equity to buy a MH. We also plan on selling this house within the next few years and I'd like to keep the equity in tact. We did use this tactic on our old home which we had almost paid off - but we were in that one for 12 years.

This transaction will be using savings for a substantial down payment and conventional financing.

[ferndaleflyer]

2nd mortgage or a line of credit on your home lets you keep your home and buy what you want, Usually interest this way is less than conventional financing also

[way2roll]

timjet wrote:
From the title of this thread, I would never buy an entry level anything. You must determine gas or diesel but consider you can afford a DP and a quality one if you go back enough years. We purchased a 10 yo quality DP and had it inspected, especially the chassis, and have not been disappointed. The ride is soft and comfortable, conversation easy even after almost 100,000 miles.
2007 and earlier eliminates the DPF and DEF hassles.

What you are saying makes sense and I had thought of going older to get a higher quality coach. The issue is floorplans. A high end DP older than 7 years doesn't have the floorplans to support 3 adults (2 parents and a 17 yr old) and a work space (I work remote full time) to full or even part time. Seems like all the higher end units - even newer ones- cater to 2 people only. Entry level DP's seem to cater more toward families. Of the hundreds of floorplans I have scoured in coach years over the past decade, there are really only a few that will work for us. I had even thought of going with a 15-20 yr old Prevost and gutting it to make it what I want but, I don't have the time, the space, or the ambition for a project like that. While quality is important, our hierarchy is floorplan, reliability, then comfort and quality. There is also the thought that a 10 yr old coach will start to need mechanical things replaced/fixed sooner than a 5 yr old one. What is in our budget and floorplans are high end gassers or an entry level DP's. All that said, DW and I have started looking more into the mid level DP's. They seem to hit most of what we are after but they start to creep out of our initial budget. We may be changing our budget. I don't want to have regrets with this coach, wishing we should have spent a little more to get that coach we liked more than the one we bought.

On edit - there is also the issue of financing. Originally we thought we would sell the home and full time. That would have allowed us to buy a lot more coach. We've changed our minds and keeping the house until my son decides where he wants to go to college. So our budget has changed and so has our need for financing. The older the coach, the more difficult if not impossible to get financing. I think most banks won't lend on an RV older than 10 years - and if they did I imagine terms would be poor.

[timjet]

From the title of this thread, I would never buy an entry level anything. You must determine gas or diesel but consider you can afford a DP and a quality one if you go back enough years. We purchased a 10 yo quality DP and had it inspected, especially the chassis, and have not been disappointed. The ride is soft and comfortable, conversation easy even after almost 100,000 miles.
2007 and earlier eliminates the DPF and DEF hassles.