Installing an inverter in my Winndbago Journey

[warrenjo46]

I decided I would like to have 120 AC available in my motorhome when I am not on shore power without running the generator. I bought a 2500 Watt inverter on line and a 50 amp automatic transfer switch. Installing the inverter and the transfer switch became complicated due to space considerations.

I decided I could install just the inverter but I wanted to make absolutely certain I did not connect the inverter and shore power or generator at the same time. I know that would not be a happy event. But I wanted the inverter to power outlets inside the MH. I needed a way to wire the inverter into the AC system of the MH that would be fool proof. That is why the automatic transfer switch seemed necessary.

I have an epiphany at 3:00 an. Just install the inverter in the compartment with the 50 amp shore power cord. Use a 50 to 30 amp adapter and 30 to 20 amp adapter to connect the shore power cord to the inverter whenever I disconnect the shore power. That way I cannot connect the shore power and the inverter at the same. The automatic transfer switch already in the MH will insure that the generator will not connect when the inverter is providing AC.

I am returning the new automatic transfer switch I purchased for this installation and saving $150.

[newizu]

Thank you all so much. you are real savers.

[time2roll]

MAIN-needs to be on
AC-best to have this off
MICRO & W/H is interesting. Must have a load shed device. OK to be off but if you want to use the M/W it is best to set the W/H to propane only.
GFCI-generally you will want this on.
RECEPTS-yes you want this on too.
CONVERTER-off

The only question is where does the fridge get 120v power. Need to switch fridge to propane only unless by luck it is on the converter branch circuit.

Once you have a road map you may want to print it so if a non technical person wants to use the inverter the sequence is very simple.

[newizu]

Thanks for your reply. My converter has several switches.
1-MAIN
2-AC
3-Micro & water heater
4-GFIC
5-RECEPTS
6-Converter
Should I turn off just the converter or any other switches.
My unit is a 2007 Four Winds Hurricane model 30Q
Once again. Thank you.

[pianotuna]

newizu,


Here is one wiring path for inverters for whole house.

battery bank-->inverter-->shore power plug

The converter breaker needs to be turned off.

The fridge should be set to propane.

Having a second bank for just the inverter leads to less total power available.

btw BFL13 just did some real life testing on SiO2 batteries and the results are quite encouraging.

[time2roll]

newizu wrote:
This question is for Tropical36. I am interested in doing what you described you have done to connect inverter as shore power. Would it help if I were to disconnect power bank from main setup and use it as a stand-alone power bank to power the inverter?

Yes and no.

I assume you mean battery bank when you say "power bank"

Yes if you had a separate battery dedicated to the inverter you would not have to worry about the converter creating a power loop that drains the single battery.

No it may not save you much because the inverter powering the converter would still be charging the existing house battery potentially using a lot of power. Then you still need a way to charge the second battery dedicated to the inverter.

In the end I don't think this simplifies things. I don't recommend it.

[tropical36]

newizu wrote:
This question is for Tropical36. I am interested in doing what you described you have done to connect inverter as shore power. Would it help if I were to disconnect power bank from main setup and use it as a stand-alone power bank to power the inverter?

Not really understanding the question here.
What are you referring to as the ....power bank... and are you perhaps talking about your house batteries?
What do you mean by the main setup?
All I was saying is that you might just plug your shore power cord into the inverter's 120vac output when you want to use it. Again, you must first open every non essential circuit breaker, when doing so or risk depleting your house batteries in short order. As for what you can keep, it will depend on the size of the inverter.
If you only want to operate a couple of things and the inverter is only 1000watts or less, it's not all that hard to run a couple of dedicated outlets here and there, like I did in our old gas coach and be done with it, as another option.

[newizu]

This question is for Tropical36. I am interested in doing what you described you have done to connect inverter as shore power. Would it help if I were to disconnect power bank from main setup and use it as a stand-alone power bank to power the inverter?

[pianotuna]

consider that when using the inverter you wish to save as much power as possible. Having it power a relay may use about 12 watts.

If, on the other hand, you have shore power pull the relay closed, you save that 12 watts, when on the inverter. On shore power 12 watts is nothing. On battery power it is a lot.

[tropical36]

warrenjo46 wrote:

EV2 wrote:
One consideration when plugging the shore power cord into the inverter is to turn off the 110 breaker for the converter/charger. If this is not done, the converter will attempt to charge the batteries that supply the inverter. This loop will either use excessive energy at a minimum or trip the inverter. We have labeled our 110 breakers for the converter charger and air conditioning and turn them off whenever plugging into the inverter. Works perfectly. Also may wish to avoid using the microwave.
(Highly recommend a pure sine wave inverter when doing this.)

Yes I did purchase a pure sine wave inverter (2500W).

I will install a normally closed relay in the power to the converter that will be energized to open when the inverter is turned on. That will prevent the converter from trying to charge the batteries with power drawn from the batteries.

My only problem with this plan is "where is the converter?"

After looking at several wiring diagrams and schematics I discovered that the converter is located under the refrigerator behind the grill that looks like the cold air return for the furnace. Since motorhomes are very compact manufacturers need to tuck devices into unexpected places.

With most of the newer coaches and not so new, the converter and inverter are compacted into one unit and usually in an outside bay near the batteries.

[warrenjo46]

EV2 wrote:
One consideration when plugging the shore power cord into the inverter is to turn off the 110 breaker for the converter/charger. If this is not done, the converter will attempt to charge the batteries that supply the inverter. This loop will either use excessive energy at a minimum or trip the inverter. We have labeled our 110 breakers for the converter charger and air conditioning and turn them off whenever plugging into the inverter. Works perfectly. Also may wish to avoid using the microwave.
(Highly recommend a pure sine wave inverter when doing this.)

Yes I did purchase a pure sine wave inverter (2500W).

I will install a normally closed relay in the power to the converter that will be energized to open when the inverter is turned on. That will prevent the converter from trying to charge the batteries with power drawn from the batteries.

My only problem with this plan is "where is the converter?"

After looking at several wiring diagrams and schematics I discovered that the converter is located under the refrigerator behind the grill that looks like the cold air return for the furnace. Since motorhomes are very compact manufacturers need to tuck devices into unexpected places.

[warrenjo46]

EV2 wrote:
One consideration when plugging the shore power cord into the inverter is to turn off the 110 breaker for the converter/charger. If this is not done, the converter will attempt to charge the batteries that supply the inverter. This loop will either use excessive energy at a minimum or trip the inverter. We have labeled our 110 breakers for the converter charger and air conditioning and turn them off whenever plugging into the inverter. Works perfectly. Also may wish to avoid using the microwave.
(Highly recommend a pure sine wave inverter when doing this.)

I agree it is a difficult to remember to disconnect the converter when plugging the shore power into the inverter. I think I have a solution. I intend to install a normally closed relay in the power to to the converter (battery charger). I then will wire the relay to open whenever the inverter is turned on.

The downside to this approach is if I forget to turn off the inverter when I unplug the shore power from the inverter then the batteries will not charge when shore power is plugged into land power.

[tropical36]

warrenjo46 wrote:
I decided I would like to have 120 AC available in my motorhome when I am not on shore power without running the generator. I bought a 2500 Watt inverter on line and a 50 amp automatic transfer switch. Installing the inverter and the transfer switch became complicated due to space considerations.

I decided I could install just the inverter but I wanted to make absolutely certain I did not connect the inverter and shore power or generator at the same time. I know that would not be a happy event. But I wanted the inverter to power outlets inside the MH. I needed a way to wire the inverter into the AC system of the MH that would be fool proof. That is why the automatic transfer switch seemed necessary.

I have an epiphany at 3:00 an. Just install the inverter in the compartment with the 50 amp shore power cord. Use a 50 to 30 amp adapter and 30 to 20 amp adapter to connect the shore power cord to the inverter whenever I disconnect the shore power. That way I cannot connect the shore power and the inverter at the same. The automatic transfer switch already in the MH will insure that the generator will not connect when the inverter is providing AC.

I am returning the new automatic transfer switch I purchased for this installation and saving $150.

Having a transfer switch, would present even more problems, with forgetting to shed non-inverter loads.
What you have now, by simply plugging into the inverter with the power cord is the simplest
Naturally, you must remember to open certain breakers first, so they won't try and run off of the inverter.

A/C units.
Water Heater.
Converter.
Diesel block heater.
RV fridge, if applicable.

Microwave will run just fine, but not for long without depleting the batteries.

Since your inverter is plenty large enough, what do you have for house batteries???

Biggest disadvantage with your setup, is for not being able to use it, going down the road with the alternator keeping things charged.
Well, unless you can find a way for running the power cord inside.

[wa8yxm]

Ah the poor man's transfer switch.
Be sure to SHUT OFF the converter when you do that.

NOTEL many inverters of that size class are Inverter/Chargers with built in transfer switch Here is how you wire them on the 120 volt side.

30 amp braker in main box----inverter/charger---Sub panel with breakers

The sub panel feeds the TV and related. Bedroom (usually not on mine)
And other essential outlets (This laptop)

it does nto feed Water heater. A/C Fridge or converter.

[EV2]

One consideration when plugging the shore power cord into the inverter is to turn off the 110 breaker for the converter/charger. If this is not done, the converter will attempt to charge the batteries that supply the inverter. This loop will either use excessive energy at a minimum or trip the inverter. We have labeled our 110 breakers for the converter charger and air conditioning and turn them off whenever plugging into the inverter. Works perfectly. Also may wish to avoid using the microwave.
(Highly recommend a pure sine wave inverter when doing this.)