lame 460 /F53

[popeye766]

Iam in Hot Springs Ar......with a a badly missing 460....My scanner shows nothing .....Iam looking for recommendations for a shop to scan my engine beside Riser ford....I cannot leave my MH a few days while they mess with it....ANYBODY...?

[frankdamp]

All I can say is I'm glad my 460 experience was with an '85 with a carbuetor! I never thought I say that. That rig was the biggest turkey I ever owned. I was seriously considering getting a 4-barrel Holley carb like my '71 Colony Park wagon had, and disconnecting all that smog crap. In small-town WA we don't have emission tests, even yet.

In the end, because we hated the floor-plan and a bunch of other things, we sold the rig, at a substantial loss. Six years later we bought an '02 Class A (32') with the V-10. What a difference - no degradation in gas mileage with altitude, no spitting and banging when the cruise control disconnected and 35% better gas mileage in a bigger rig. Sometimes "almost vintage" rigs aren't worth the trouble.

Based on our experience, I wouldn't touch anything between about 1973 (before major smog gear) and around 1992, when everyone had gone to EFI.

[mikeintn]

Did everything turn out OK? I have a 97 460 (98 Allegro) and follow these threads to try and head off any problems, or know what to do if I have some 🙂

[John_Joey]

BTW,

If you do go to Ford for a OEM distributor, pick up a $40 OEM starter relay, and toss it into your parts box in the MH with that spare fuel filter.

Unless the PO replaced the starter relay, that'll be the next thing to go on a trip that will drive you crazy with an intermittent no start condition.

While I'm on my soap box :W (and you're home safe and sound) pull the engine ground strap and clean up the ends and put a little dielectric grease on them.

After that you should be pretty much ready to hit the road.

On edit:

Guess I'm still on my soap box, since you kept saying you're running hot are you sure your fan is working? You should hear a large roar when it kicks in. If you don't, run a piece of paper tape from the fan to something solid when the engine is cold. If it tears on startup, then your fan clutch should be OK.

[John_Joey]

Chuck_NJ wrote:
..snip... Have never seen a bad pcm but many a pickup coil in the dist cause your problem....

If you're throwing parts at it, I would give Ford a call and order a new distributor. Surprisingly enough they don't cost as much as you would think. Just make sure you mark things well before you slip in the new one, then get the timing light out and fine tune it. I know some will do it by ear and let the PCM handle the rest, but that will get you into trouble sooner or later when you're pulling a real load.

Glad to hear you got the MH back home. Are you now stuck with the cost of the reman computer?

[popeye766]

THANK YOU CHUCK....WILL TRY TOMORROW...QUITE THE STORY.....when I limped into Riser Ford in Hot Springs...they were quite accommodating and had a EFI teck with a code reader in there in 45 min....However, hell he got it wrong... shorted sprot circuit ...need new PCM....around $1,000 for unit. HUH....Then the news....cant find one....obsolete and NIS. Now what.? I said OK keep trying....meanwhile I went to the MH and got on line and found one in flordia at a outfit that remans them.....
$380.... ran back in and told the service writer I found one in CA., packed our stuff and went down the street to an RV park...ordered it and sat and waited for it....installed it and it would barely start it....no doubt would not work with the grey ICM.....for more refer to previous post......NO DOUBT Riser would have charged me $1500.....Do your PM AT HOME.....
TOM

[Gale_Hawkins]

popeye glad you got her all fired up with that Mustang ICM. 🙂

This old stuff tends to keep our brain cells more active which is a good thing I read. There seems next to no one in business that worked on these early computer controlled firing and fuel systems of that era.

As other articles and Chuck points out PCM's seldom fail so that is one reason no one suspects to look at that part. Glad there was not programming or flashing required. These early computer systems were quite simple in features but they were a step in the right direction.

We have some kind of computer box on the old 1989 ford F700 two ton truck and I hope it never fails. 🙂

[Chuck_NJ]

If you have time call me at my shop tomorrow at 973-772-9711 I have not read the whole thread but I am an ASE certified tech owned a 460 know it inside and out. Have never seen a bad pcm but many a pickup coil in the dist cause your problem. I would like to hear the whole story maybe I can help

[popeye766]

Thanks Terry.....after much research I discover there are 2 ICMs...grey up to the 90 or so..and the black one for 460s to 96.Dealers and auto parts don't know the difference , but they always have the grey one which will not be compatible with our 90s computer system. Books don't show the correct one only grey......YOU HAVE TO BUY A BLACK ONE FOR A 95 MUSTANG 5.0 TERRY..send me PM a email address I will send you the info.
I bought the grey one ..eng barely run . Ordered a reman computer and that combo was a waste of time. I went to auto parts and bought a Mustang one and reinstalled my orig. computer. my engine came alive and got me home to south Texas. Ran good....Gonna make many changes before I hit the road again. ONe is an aux external inline fuel pump in case my in tank fails......I have to have back ups since todays parts are so crappy no matter who you buy them from. I will have it all set up so I can install it in 30 min.

[spcorvette]

Any update? If you have the part number off the original PCM, I can check to see if there is anything compatible.

Terry

[popeye766]

ten4 on parts ...lol I just sold my last 4 classic cars cause I didn't want to work on them or build them anymore....50 yrs of doing that is enough...gonna sell my lift too when I get home and take up gardening ....

thank you guys again...

[John_Joey]

Sorry about the new board, I still think it's unlikely that there is an intermittent short in a computer board. Stuff like that either work or they don't, but there is always an exception to every rule.

I spent almost a week at this place snooping around last spring CLICKY. Good people and they seem to be able to find the impossible stuff. Can't hurt to give them a call and explain what you're looking for.

As a sidenote, awhile back someone posted that 20 year old MH's NADA prices drop a lot in value, and wanted to know why. I made the statement that auto manufacturers only need to stock parts for 20 years, then you're on your own. This is an example of what can happen. Not that 20 year old MH are not worth buying, just mean you have to work harder at times to keep them running, just like with any classic car.

Good luck, I wish I could help.


ON EDIT:

Your post beat mine, and I just read what you wrote... Good luck with the new ignition control module. They are a well known source of problems in Fords. The ones that I've known have always been either working or not (when hot.)

[popeye766]

Thank you guys....I have discovered tonight after a lot of research that the parts house sold me the wrong ICM....I took out black and they sold me grey...not the same and not compatible with this year of 460 EFI....iam thinking that that new PCM really balked with the non=compatible grey ICM. the ICM lets the computer control the dist dwell in black...in grey it is set and doesn't change....of course the timing is also affected.
Iam gonna try in the AM to find a black one...on a truck forum it was mentioned to go for a 95 mustang 5.0 which has the black ICM .
All input appreciated. Iam going to stay here till I get this thing running better....don't want to be towed....have insurance but its a hassle...............

[Gale_Hawkins]

Man and they sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

If you had an ice pack or anything that would keep it cool if you got a longer run time before the missing then that would indicate in my mind the PCM is the related issue. I had left for a while after starting this reply and after posting I see Dutch covered that point. It would be a no cost test just using ice. Before they pulled R-12 production computer techs could by spray cans of Freon. IBM must to have bought it by the box car load.

There is someone somewhere that is good at rebuilding them I am sure.

On the Ford F700 the starter is just find from late fall to early spring but in hot weather if we shut it off to get gas, etc it has to set 5 or more minutes depending on air temps before the dragging starter will cool enough to turn over the engine fast enough to start the engine.

[Dutch_12078]

popeye766 wrote:
OK, today I installed the reman PCM.....boy that was a messed up deal.....wouldn't start ,then when it did, died and it would not rev and had a terrible bogg when accelerating so this new computer definitely has the wrong program.....Iam in a real bad spot....ford says this year PCM is obsolete and not made anymore and they don't have any...the reman place cant put the proper program in it ...so now what?
Tried to buy dry ice to try Gale Hs idea but none around here.
I reinstalled my original PCM and Iam going to try to get to Texarkana in the cool AM...don't know what else to do.

Can you attach a plastic bag or container of regular ice where it will lay against the PCM? It won't last as long as dry ice of course, but it could also be replaced as needed to test the heat theory.