Let's beat this horse once again

[wjschill]

I know this subject must have come up many times, but I'm still wanting opinions from this great group of RVer's.

With a budget of $75k, which way is the best to travel...an older diesel pusher, or a newer gas model?

Seems that some older 2001 to 2006 dp's have better quality than the newer say 2011 to 2015 gas models. I've looked at many of both.

I've had a diesel pickup for many years and really like it, although maintenance costs are higher, which I expected when I purchased it in 2007.

For those whom have traveled in both, what say you?

It seems during this time of Covid, many dp's with low miles seem a better fit for those not too worried about the higher cost of maintenance, especially since the gassers are really holding their value for now.

Thanks

[floid]

We are considering Type A vs Type C. I like this idea of buying an older Diesel Pusher. I looked in classifieds locally and see a 2001 Holiday Rambler (Monaco) that has been garage kept and looks in very good condition. Only 52k miles on it - selling for basically book value. I'm curious what folks think about something like this?

It seems like a very good value. However, it scares me a bit to consider such a large rig. I have been thinking something smaller more nimble rig would be better. It is just my wife and I, but likely one or two visitors might come along now and again. We'd like to visit state & national parks and boondock. It seems like this would be way too big for those uses. However, I'd really like to hear what everything thinks about the value and utility of something like this?

[cbr46]

Need to ask . . . did you find that deal on a public site or was it through a connection?

Our Fleetwood is 19 this year and sold new for $89,000 LOL, purchased 8 yrs ago for $17k, a good deal at the time but I had to do minor fix-ups for full functionality (microwave was the biggest item). Put 14,000 miles on it last year alone. And everything works . . . sorta! Microwave turntable doesn't turn, turn signals don't automatically return, tach sometimes sticks, windshield molding needs replacing, real nit-picky stuff.

Would like to find a deal like you had. Don't think it's there in today's market. Maybe when everyone gets their kids back to organized sports, restaurants open up, theaters open up, etc. people will get distracted or tired of RV'ing creating excess inventory. Of course then it will be that much harder to sell a 20-21 yo 160,000 (projected) mile not perfect RV. Gonna suffer on one end or the other.

Best,
- bob

[ferndaleflyer]

My current Monaco DP is 20 years old and sold new for $234,000, actual price from Lazy Days. It has never sat out side except when in use, shines like new, has had regular maintenance, and everything works. Original owner lives near by. I bought it for $35,000 4 years ago and we have put about 12,000mi on it trouble free. they are out there

[Rick_Jay]

Hi Bob,

My memory isn't good enough to remember which brands did what, and since my wife at the time specifically said "No diesels", I didn't spend too much time with the issue any way.

I think there's something to be said that a quality manufacturer is likely to have higher quality in ALL of their products than those manufacturers who mostly cater to the entry level rigs.

Your question: "Would a lower end DP from (Newmar, Tiffin, Monaco) be the same build quality as the upper end?"

I would think the answer to that is no, that there would definitely be better quality in the higher end rigs within the same manufacturer's offerings. What I was trying to say is that I noticed that a high-end gasser from those "quality" manufacturers might be better built (cabinets, appliances, windows, conveniences) than an entry level diesel from, say, Fleetwood. (OK, I just chose "Fleetwood" as an example. I could be all wet, and I know they have higher level lines too! Insert your favorite "entry level mfg in place of Fleetwood if you must! 😉 ) I don't know if, for example, a high end Tiffin gasser has better interior construction & appliances than a low end Tiffin DP. I'm sure someone who actually has experience with those model lines could answer much better than I.

One technique I used to use when physically shopping for rigs, I would look at the cabinetry. The quality of the woodwork will tell you volumes. Then open a drawer or cabinet and look inside. If the drawer glides are sloppy, uneven, of the drawer doesn't operate smoothly, those are all signs of either shoddy construction (when new) or lack of maintenance or neglect on used rigs. Ditto cabinet doors which are crooked or loose. Screws don't hold as well in pressboard construction as they do in REAL solid wood, and after being tightened over and over, they tend to strip-out and require some additional attention.

You are correct though, trying to sort out manufacturers, models and years, especially when going back 10-20 years, can be a challenge.

Good Luck,

~Rick

[cbr46]

Rick Jay wrote:
. . . . there are several manufacturers which produce a "low end" diesel which didn't cost much more than their "top end" gasser, or perhaps, a higher quality manufacturer's "top end" gasser. I found this to be curious...I could almost purchase a new DP for the cost of a gasser. Then I looked closely at the cheaper DP.

Yes, it was a DP. BUT...what struck me first was the quality of the interiors and appliances. They were basically similar to what you found in the low-end to mid-end gassers. Looking at the mechanicals, things like airbags, leveling, tow ratings and other things were well below the quality of what was normally assumed to be found in a DP.

So, I guess what I'm saying, is that make sure you look at more than just being a "DP" or a "gasser". Do some research to see where that model fits into the manufacturer's offerings. After 15-20 years, I would really expect one of those "low end DPs" to be pretty "beat up" inside. The engine might be low mileage, but the house construction is basically the same as the low end gassers, which is definitely in the same league as the high-end gassers or most DPs.

As always, Buyer Beware! But if you limit your searches to the gasser upper-end manufacturer lines such as (Newmar, Tiffin, Monaco, etc.) you might be able to find a good used, gasser built with quality, yet having the gas platform.

~Rick

Are you saying the lower end DP's from the upper class (Newmar, Tiffin, Monaco, etc.) are not the same quality as other models in their own line?

Or are you saying the DP's from "the others" (Forest River, etc), which are the upper end of their lines, aren't built to last?

Or both?

Toyota and Lexus are basically the same manufacturer, just with different amenities. Both lines, from Corolla to Lexus LX are built with quality.

And then there's the combinations - Thor Industries (Thor, Damon, Dutchmen, Entegra), REV Group (American Coach, Fleetwood, Holiday Rambler, Monaco), Forest River Group (including Coachmen), Winnebago (including Newmar). It's hard to keep up - who makes who and when were they purchased by their conglomerates.

BTW - Last month Thor Industries bought Tiffin for $400M 😮

Back to the original question . . . Would a lower end DP from (Newmar, Tiffin, Monaco) be the same build quality as the upper end?

Best,
- bob

[Rick_Jay]

Hello again!

I suppose there is one option which usually doesn't get mentioned, and it involves a bit of extra research for each specific model brand.

Most people put a dividing line between diesel pusher and gasser. Fair enough. But WAY BACK in 2002/3/4 when we were doing our research, I did notice something. And that is there are several manufacturers which produce a "low end" diesel which didn't cost much more than their "top end" gasser, or perhaps, a higher quality manufacturer's "top end" gasser. I found this to be curious...I could almost purchase a new DP for the cost of a gasser. Then I looked closely at the cheaper DP.

Yes, it was a DP. BUT...what struck me first was the quality of the interiors and appliances. They were basically similar to what you found in the low-end to mid-end gassers. Looking at the mechanicals, things like airbags, leveling, tow ratings and other things were well below the quality of what was normally assumed to be found in a DP.

So, I guess what I'm saying, is that make sure you look at more than just being a "DP" or a "gasser". Do some research to see where that model fits into the manufacturer's offerings. After 15-20 years, I would really expect one of those "low end DPs" to be pretty "beat up" inside. The engine might be low mileage, but the house construction is basically the same as the low end gassers, which is definitely in the same league as the high-end gassers or most DPs.

As always, Buyer Beware! But if you limit your searches to the gasser upper-end manufacturer lines such as (Newmar, Tiffin, Monaco, etc.) you might be able to find a good used, gasser built with quality, yet having the gas platform.

Just a thought!

Good Luck in your search!

~Rick

[Lancslad]

If you want quality buy an older DP. My 2011 has a great chassis and drivetrain but the ceiling is falling down and the upholstery is shedding vinyl every day.

[rgatijnet1]

Keep in mind that the used RV you are looking at is for sale because the previous owner is done with it. You may wonder why. Most everyone on this forum, and other RV'rs have gone through more than one RV before they settled on their current coach, at least until the next one comes along. Take your time and do not let emotion cloud your decision. Ask yourself why this used coach is for sale. Don't buy someone else's problems and don't expect this to be your last Class A. It is just the way it is.

[thelazyl]

There are some good comments on this. I echo that floor plan and condition are most important in my opinion. For us we picked up a well maintained DP for $40k in the floor plan we liked. At our age, and given the types of our trips, the smoother, quieter ride of the DP was our #3 requirement. We are in our 4th year with is and don't regret it for a moment. Much of our RV enjoyment is the drive itself.

[cudntherd]

We have had a gas V10 and bought a 40ft DP in 2011 and really enjoy it.
The only thing I would change if I purchase again is a DP with a side Radiator for easier access to the Engine.

[wjschill]

Thanks guys.

We plan to pull the dw's Toyoya Camry. It's front wheel drive, and I'll have to use a dolly, as it can't be towed four wheels down.

Also, we live in Texas, and I've heard (I need to investigate) that a vehicle with a gross weight over 31,000lbs requires an upgraded drivers license.

Not a CDL, but one specifically for motorhomes. Anyone out there have additional info?

I have seen, what seems like some good buys out there on Newmars, Winnebago Venture, and FW Expeditions. I prefer to purchase from an individual, and yes, I will pay for an expert inspection. I've figured and additional $1500 for that.

Also, the gassers I sat in, the dog house seems to be a bit of a pain to get around. As with anything, I suppose I can get used to it, but makes me lean toward the older dp's as well.

Thanks again.

[folivier]

What size? How many slides? Or no slides?
You could step up your game by going with an older but higher quality unit such as a Foretravel or even a Newell in that price range. But whatever you decide on get an inspection by someone very familiar with the brand you're considering.

[Rick_Jay]

Hi,

Yes, this horse has been beating a time or two before! LOL

I'd just like to make a few comments and questions for you.

First, I'll say that the floorplan is probably the MOST important thing for the majority of RV'ers. Once you're parked, that's what's most important as that's where you will live. You want to make sure that it works for your expected use. If you'll be stopping at rest stops/Walmarts/Flying J's/etc. for sleeping while on the road, make SURE that everything you need access to is available when the slides are in. You may not be able to deploy your slides in such areas.

If you're going to do A LOT of travelling, the DP will invariably give you a better experience. That said, we've done fine in our gasser. But I've been warned never to test drive a DP unless I'm going to buy one, as I'll never be happy with the gasser again. Knowing me, I believe that could be true! LOL

What are you plans for towing a vehicle to get around with once you arrive at your destination? You have to make sure whatever chassis you select has adequate towing capability. This might require some investment in your current vehicle to make it towable and/or purchase of a different vehicle.

Personally, about the time period you mention for the newer, used gassers, RV manufacturer's seemed to adopt a "dark theme" for the interiors of many RV's. Both my wife and I dislike the dark color schemes. I've noticed now they do offer some "white-wash" look lighter shades, but I still don't like them as much as the lighter, natural wood shade we have in our motorhome and those manufactured back in the first decade of 2000. I knot that's personal, but it might come into play if you're not crazy about the "dark" look. (I'll admit, my eyes aren't the greatest, which is why I LIKE it fairly bright in a room when I want to see something. The dark interiors just aren't conducive to that requirement.)

The other thing I've noticed is that the "newer rigs" seem to have way too much "technology" in them for my personal preference. I come from the era of wanting a button, knob or switch for appliance controls. I don't want to reach for my phone or a tablet to adjust the thermostat. Some like that convenience, but for me, it's an extra complexity that is likely to cause problems down the road. And then what do you do when the "app" is no longer available for your latest model phone? Computers have their place, but aside from my personal devices (and the engine & transmission), I don't really want them controlling stuff in my RV. Again, this tips the scales toward older units if it's a concern of yours.

On Edit: Ok...I just read your latest post about Fivers. Disregard this paragraph! 😉 As for getting a Fifth Wheel as you already have the truck. But is that truck capable of pulling a Fifth Wheel which will satisfy your needs, and what's it overall condition? Will you have to trade it in for another? I know people with Fivers and they love them as it works best for them. (Though, a few have mentioned they'd probably get a moho if they could). I can see the advantages of one for many people. But while travelling, the motorhome is so much more convenient. Everything is at your finger tips while on the road. In my opinion, it is the BEST way to travel, especially if you're travelling with a family. The level of convenience while travelling in a motorhome just isn't possible by any other solution.

IF we ever decide to change our first & only RV purchased new back in 2004, it most likely will be with a gently used, high-end DP from the early 2000 vintage period. They are out there, and I believe you might be able to find one in your price range. For $75k now, you should be able to buy a rig which cost over $500k new 20 years ago! The quality in that used high-end rig will be apparent as soon as you step into it.

Good Luck in whatever you decide.

~Rick

[cbr46]

When you get somewhere in a Class A you're stuck. For that reason a 5'er is nice. You might consider adding a toad for getting groceries, sightseeing, etc.

Pulling toads is a whole other topic but getting the right one will make RV'ing much more satisfying IMO.

We're at a crossroads with our Class A and deciding on another gasser or DP. So far the DP is winning the battle. I'm tired of road noise and being pushed around by wind.

There's another recent thread along those lines (cbr46)

Best,
- bob