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Palazzo Brakes

Groover
Explorer II
Explorer II
There is one issue in which I have been disappointed by Thor. The web site clearly stated that the Palazzo came equipped with front disc brakes. After getting home I wanted to see what front disc brakes look like so I crawled under the coach to take a peek. I was shocked to find that they look exactly like drum brakes. I called Freightliner and asked why my coach had drums when it was advertised to have disc brakes. The service tech seemed surprised also and told me that disc brakes were standard. When I gave him my VIN he looked it up and told me that Thor had ordered the chassis with drums in place of the discs. I asked a professional trucker I know how big of deal he thought that it is and he told me that disc brakes last twice as long and cost half as much to service. More importantly, they stop the vehicle faster and are lighter for a better ride and more carrying capacity. He thinks that discs so much better that he is considering having his tractor retrofitted with disc brakes.

I called Thor and explained that I negotiated the price for the coach based on their advertised features and feel that I had been shorted and would like to know what they would do to make things right. This is their formal, written response:

"Your letter is to memorialize our conversation in regards to your coach having front disc brakes. We do thank you very much for bringing this error to our attention and it has since been removed from the website. We don't and never have put disc brakes on the coaches. Please rest assured that Thor stands ready, willing and able to honor our published limited warranty to the fullest extent. This is not a warrantable item. We reserve the right to make changes to our website at anytime. This was sincerely an accidental description posted online. In the meantime, if you have any questions or need further assistance, please feel free to contact me directly at (877) 855-2867.

Sincerely,
Bill Sauer
Thor Motor Coach"

What do you guys think of this response? Would you be satisfied?
22 REPLIES 22

wallynm
Explorer
Explorer
This is what the FCC web site provides as specs for the 2013 Palazzo brakes. FCC list each model and nameplate separately and you can not just look at the general specification page. I can not say what Thor does and believe the OP has no case except goodwill that may be offered.

Brakes Full air brakes with auto slack adjusters and ABS
Front Service 15 x 4 drum style brakes s-cam
Rear Service 16.5 x 7 in drum-style s-cam
Parking 16.5 x 7 in drum-style s-cam Spring applied air release

clearly states drums all around. even the 14 do not have disc and they all have I beam ft axles rather than IFS, rear radiator rather then side radiator and only 6.7 L engine. looks like FCC least expensive pusher chassis but can be very serviceable and reliable
Have a Diesel Engine Diesel RV Club

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Groover
Explorer II
Explorer II
sailor_lou wrote:
As Brett and others have identified, with a MOHO's general lack of use you are probably better off with the drum setup. To answer your questions, (1) I believe you received the normal expected response and (2) unless I felt I received a severely inferior product, I'd be satisfied and let it pass. In this case, I believe it you are actually better off. Good luck.

Lou
05 Travel Supreme Envoy


I am probably going to take this advice and appreciate the input from others with more experience. I would have felt better if Thor had told me that they did it for a good reason instead of giving me the respose they did.

sailor_lou
Explorer
Explorer
As Brett and others have identified, with a MOHO's general lack of use you are probably better off with the drum setup. To answer your questions, (1) I believe you received the normal expected response and (2) unless I felt I received a severely inferior product, I'd be satisfied and let it pass. In this case, I believe it you are actually better off. Good luck.

Lou
05 Travel Supreme Envoy

Effy
Explorer II
Explorer II
Not to split hairs, but doesn't the fact that you have drum brakes which on a diesel is a superior system, sort of make the point moot? And they have a disclaimer that they can change the specs on any unit. The tow capacity thing bugs me a little. What manufacturers, Any manufacturer should do is represent true towing capacity on a grid/curve based on total weight. that said, it can be calculated. the hitch is 10k sure, but it's really up to you to calc what weight you can pull. This isn't unique to Thor or disels for that matter. Pretty much status quo in any MH.
2013 ACE 29.2

Groover
Explorer II
Explorer II
As their reply states, the declaration that the Palazzo has disc brakes was removed after I called them on it and made an issue of it. Your statement to the effect that it is not there now was put is just verifying the original post. If you want evidence that it was there at one time read the statement that says that it has been removed. How did they remove something that was not there? If you need further evidence call them and ask but that is not the issue. The issue is that two hundred coaches were sold with incorrect advertising descriptions and Thor is denying any responsibility for that while apparently pocketing the savings from specifiying a less expesive substition for a standard feature from Freightliner.

If you just don't believe that Thor is incapable of advertizing things that they don't deliver go to their homepage at thormotorcoach.com, hover over the diesel pusher tab and you will get a popup that advertises 10,000lb towing capacity on the Palazzo. I verified this just before making this post. This is inspite of the fact that I contacted them back in March about the towing capacity and how misleading their advertising is and got this response:


"To my knowledge, we have never told customers that the Palazzo will pull 10,000lbs. We sell the fact that we have a 10,000 lb. hitch, so our customers that have a vehicle that exceeds 5,000 lbs., the Palazzo is a great alternative. Many manufacturers build larger diesels that only have a 5,000 lb. hitch. In my training with sales people I always explain the weights of the vehicle and how to explain. Plus, I have never seen a 7500 lb. hitch option. Our dealers are aware the tow capacity of a diesel is determined by the amount of weight a customer decides to travel with. I do apologize, if you feel we were being misleading." This was sent on March 19th at 9:48 A.M.

It is very possible that many of the posters here are correct and that I will be better off with drum brakes, I just want the advertising to be correct so that I know what I am really getting when I am doing the negotiating. Their attitude that since disc brakes were not itemized on the invoice and therefore I did not pay for them or have any reason to feel cheated is hogwash in my opinion. If I had simply failed to advise them that my check was not really what it appeared to be do you think that they would take that easily? I delivered what I said I would, I just expect them to do the same. If they don't take their advertising seriously they need to make the disclaimer at least as prominent as the incorrect statements.

dogsgocamping
Explorer
Explorer
wny_pat wrote:
dogsgocamping wrote:
Using Google's "Wayback Machine" internet archive I could not find any mention of disc brakes on the Palazzo. I went back over a year. Just saying...
Did you read the quoted letter that Thor sent the OP??? Here is the quote of how it started: "Your letter is to memorialize our conversation in regards to your coach having front disc brakes. We do thank you very much for bringing this error to our attention and it has since been removed from the website."

I think some of you just jump in without reading the original post and what the thread is all about!


Yes, I read it. It also states that the OP expected to have disc brakes due to "The web site clearly stated that the Palazzo came equipped with front disc brakes."


I simply stated that I cannot find any evidence that there was ever anything on the web site stating that it had disc brakes in spite of what the letter said from Thor. Thor cannot change the archive.
2011 Berkshire 390QS
2 Lab Dogs-Eros and Star
1 Cockatiel-Lucky

tatest
Explorer II
Explorer II
I can understand your disappointment about the specifications, but on a motorhome heavy enough to have large wheels and big drum air brakes, I think I would rather have the drums than the disks. The disk brake systems in this size, especially trying to combine air brakes and ABS, have been too problematic for my tastes.

Even with boosted hydraulic brakes, as used on my C and on Ford's A gasser chassis, there are enough problems caused by "just sitting there" that I would lean toward drums when the wheels are big enough to contain them. On a C, they are not.
Tom Test
Itasca Spirit 29B

wny_pat1
Explorer
Explorer
dogsgocamping wrote:
Using Google's "Wayback Machine" internet archive I could not find any mention of disc brakes on the Palazzo. I went back over a year. Just saying...
Did you read the quoted letter that Thor sent the OP??? Here is the quote of how it started: "Your letter is to memorialize our conversation in regards to your coach having front disc brakes. We do thank you very much for bringing this error to our attention and it has since been removed from the website."

I think some of you just jump in without reading the original post and what the thread is all about!
โ€œAll journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware.โ€

dogsgocamping
Explorer
Explorer
Using Google's "Wayback Machine" internet archive I could not find any mention of disc brakes on the Palazzo. I went back over a year. Just saying...
2011 Berkshire 390QS
2 Lab Dogs-Eros and Star
1 Cockatiel-Lucky

kenbert
Explorer
Explorer
You might have some recourse if you can get a statement from freightliner stating that the chassis came standard with disc brakes and Thor changed it to drum brakes Knowing they advertised disc.

Ken
95 Georgie Boy Encounter 37ft 5.9 cummins DP
01 Saturn SW

wny_pat1
Explorer
Explorer
pablo77 wrote:
From their website:

Disclaimer

REPRESENTATIONS PUBLISHED WITHIN THE WEB SITE DO NOT CONSTITUTE AN EXPRESS WARRANTY WITH RESPECT TO ANY PRODUCT YOU MAY PURCHASE. YOU SHOULD VERIFY THAT A REPRESENTATION APPLIES TO THE PRODUCT THAT YOU MAY WISH TO PURCHASE BEFORE MAKING YOUR PURCHASE DECISION.



We reserve the right to make changes at any time, without notice, in prices, styling, design, colors, construction, equipment, materials, and specifications. We are not responsible for inaccurate or outdated representations published within the web site. Please check with your local Thor Motor Coach dealer to ensure that you have the latest accurate information available on any product you wish to purchase.
The presence of a disclaimer in a legally binding agreement does not necessarily guarantee that the terms of the disclaimer will be recognized and enforced in a legal dispute, especially conidering length of time that "mistaken" advertising information has been on a commercial website.
โ€œAll journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware.โ€

J_Walker
Explorer
Explorer
From the discussion there must have been some Thor publications indicating that the Palazzo had air disc brakes but I can't find it. Here is a document on the Thor site for the 2013 Palazzo. It gives the Freightliner XCS chassis specs and shows drum brakes. Looking on the Freightliner website, the XCS chassis is shown as having front air disc brakes and thus the confusion.
Jim Walker
2014 Thor Palazzo 33.2, 6.7 Cummins, 2100 Allison
2009 Malibu

pablo77
Explorer
Explorer
From their website:

Disclaimer

REPRESENTATIONS PUBLISHED WITHIN THE WEB SITE DO NOT CONSTITUTE AN EXPRESS WARRANTY WITH RESPECT TO ANY PRODUCT YOU MAY PURCHASE. YOU SHOULD VERIFY THAT A REPRESENTATION APPLIES TO THE PRODUCT THAT YOU MAY WISH TO PURCHASE BEFORE MAKING YOUR PURCHASE DECISION.



We reserve the right to make changes at any time, without notice, in prices, styling, design, colors, construction, equipment, materials, and specifications. We are not responsible for inaccurate or outdated representations published within the web site. Please check with your local Thor Motor Coach dealer to ensure that you have the latest accurate information available on any product you wish to purchase.
Pablo77
'08 Mandalay Presidio #3469

I_am_still_wayn
Explorer
Explorer
I am quite sure that on their brochures, website, and all other printed documentation there is a clause that states they can make changes to the product at anytime and without notice. You have no recourse. Actually, as already posted, there are advantages with drum over disc in the RV application.