Small Class C suggestions?

[BigCanoe]

Hi! My wife and I have been campers since our kids were little. We started in a tent, then popup, then travel trailers. Now that we are empty nesters we are thinking of getting our first Class C. We are looking at used, but want good quality and decent comfort. We want to spend less than 55k.

Here are some features we want:
Walkaround bed, queen or two twins
Enclosed bathroom with shower, not shower in the hall
Bed over cab
Slides would be nice
Shorter would be better as we want something maneuverable thats easy to drive
We have a Jeep Wrangler that was want to toad tow, its about 3500lbs I think

We really like the Jayco Redhawk 23xm. Its small but has most of the features above. We found a used one almost in our price range. But I thought maybe you folks could suggest some alternatives!

[_en_Plain_Air_]

We love our 27' Lazy Daze with rear twin beds. Fantastic windows, storage, cargo carry capacity, and build quality. We've traveled for long chunks of time and it is very comfortable for us ... and the very old cat we bring along. They are manufacturer direct, and non-negotiable on price, but there are used ones out there ... the good ones go fast. Happy hunting!

[bagman]

Ron, you left out that the Chevy 4500 chassis has a more compliant ride vs the Ford E-450 and has a larger gas tank 57 gals. vs 55 gals. Furthermore, with my bad knees, I find driving the Ford E-450 very uncomfortable and painful. Bags.

[ron_dittmer]

BigCanoe wrote:
How can you tell if a roof is crowned or flat from pictures?

I like the Jayco 23xm for example.

You'd have to search the web for others exactly like it. Hopefully you'll find some revealing pictures.

[BigCanoe]

Wow that is beyond useful! I am struggling to tell what is a "good" brand and model. I see a bunch of different models that look similar, its all a blur.

I guess I can find used models in my price range and then research their construction too.

The molded part over the cab, as opposed to rolled with seams is something I can see now that I am looking for it. How can you tell if a roof is crowned or flat from pictures?

I like the Jayco 23xm for example. It looks to have one piece over the cab section. It says bonded and laminated floor and sidewalls whatever that means...

[ron_dittmer]

BigCanoe,

This is a very long read but you may find it well worth the time.

Ron Dittmer
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New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is a more recent example, one of many I have read. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. The Itasca Navion Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of these chassis made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350/E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem ideal for the straight "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350/E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350/E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500/4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

[BigCanoe]

Ah, cool, thanks!

[DrewE]

That would be a class C (though they may advertise it as a "class B+", which is something pretty much made up by marketing).

The class distinctions are based on what chassis the motorhome maker started out with. A class A is built on a bare or custom chassis, and all the body work comes from the motorhome maker. A class B is built inside of a van, often with a raised roof; the walls are all from the vehicle maker. A class C is built on a cutaway chassis (or a cab chassis), with the driving compartment made by the vehicle builder and the house part in back made by the RV maker.

For some reason I don't entirely understand, bus conversions are generally grouped with class A's rather than class B's. I suppose part of it may be the size and amenities are more typical of class A's, and perhaps the argument is made that the bus was built on a more or less custom chassis to begin with.

[BigCanoe]

I like that floor plan. The rear bath and the twin beds is neat! I wish it had a bed over the cab instead of the entertainment area. Is that considered a Class C or Class B?

[ron_dittmer]

The Phoenix Cruiser 2551 is very popular with empty nesters. The 2551 has been made for many years now so you should be able to find a used one in your price range. I have to warn you that PCs hold their value more than average, so you may see the asking prices a bit high.

[bagman]

Big Canoe, my suggestion would be the Jayco Redhawk Model #23X2 - 27'2" with full queen bed. About $60K thru. RVdirect. $5K more than you want to spend, but I feel it is well worth the extra bucks. See it at jaycorv.com. or rvnetlinx.com, click in manufacturers, scroll on down to jayco. Bags.

[BigCanoe]

I think I we could totally handle 27ft.

[Bordercollie]

To get a rear bedroom with RV queen bed with access on both sides you will probably need at least 27 foot rig. This length has considerably more storage and cabinet space than 22-24 foot rigs plus much better sleeping setup. My opinion, a 27 footer is the ideal size for a mature oouple and a dog. Don't be overawed by a 3 feet longer rig, and decide later that need a longer rig with rear bedroom and more storage and cabinet space. Consider buying a 3-4 year old rig and save initial depreciation etc. of a new rig. Each brand has entry level and more luxurious models and different floor plans/lengths.

[BigCanoe]

Mich F wrote:
Around $55,000 you're in the price range of new smaller Class Cs. They might not have all the bells and whistles in that price range, but they are new. As an example.
http://rv.campingworld.com/searchresults?rv_type=motorized&condition=new&subtype=C,BP&custompriceran...

Wow, nice, I'm not familiar with that brand but good price!

[Mich_F]

Around $55,000 you're in the price range of new smaller Class Cs. They might not have all the bells and whistles in that price range, but they are new. As an example.
http://rv.campingworld.com/searchresults?rv_type=motorized&condition=new&subtype=C,BP&custompriceran...